Damage to property whilst on the train

[jrh2254]

I was travelling back home on the train one evening this week and was sat on a table of 4 with 2 people sat opposite me. i had my laptop open and was engrossed in using this. I then heard the person opposite me say 'sorry' and start mopping the table at the back of my laptop. I lifted up my laptop to reveal liquid dripping from underneath next to the battery dept and i immediately wiped away the water. On closer inspection it appeared that none had entered the laptop. Now this was fortunate but had the water permanently damaged the laptop what is the procedure for determining liability. Is it my responsibility to claim from the person who caused the damage or does the train operator have insurance to cover such losses (say included in the ticket price).

Many thanks.

 

[Quakkerillo]

I'd say the TOC is not an involved party here. This is an incident between two passengers, and should be dealt with between these two passengers. If needed, and available, the staff may assist in providing proof of who was at fault, but that's all help I can see coming from them - if any.

 

[DelayRepay]

50. A Train Company’s liabilities
A Train Company will only be liable for any loss or damage to luggage, articles, animals or cycles in its trains or on its premises if the loss or damage was caused by the fault of a Train Company or a Rail Service Company staff or agents. A Train Company’s liability in respect of any item will not exceed,£1500 or the item’s value, whichever is lower.

So the TOC would not be liable for damage to your laptop and you would have to resolve this yourself with the person causing the damage (or claim on your own insurance).

 

[Rapidash]

Uh, isn't that sort of situation exactly what insurance is for?

 

[satisnek]

I think the moral of the story is: put your laptop away if people sharing your table have drinks!

I used to go on railtours (still do, once in a blue moon) and liked to have my maps, Rail Atlas etc. to hand... but they went back into my bag in the blink of an eye if my fellow passengers bought or produced drinks, particularly tea or coffee. Sorry, but I've seen it go all over the table too many times (ie, more than once!). I trust no-one!

 

[jrh2254]

So the TOC would not be liable for damage to your laptop and you would have to resolve this yourself with the person causing the damage (or claim on your own insurance).

OK thanks that seems to be very clear. I do not have cover for high risk items away from the home so means I would have to get the name and address of the passenger and ask them for compensation. Expect this could be a tricky situation needing name/address details etc. , which relies on the honesty of the other person. I will have to pick my seat more carefully in future!

Thanks.

 

[yorkie]

....what is the procedure for determining liability...

The person who spilt the water is liable.

Is it my responsibility to claim from the person who caused the damage

Yes.

or does the train operator have insurance to cover such losses (say included in the ticket price).

No. I'm not aware of any TOC who offers insurance (certainly not included in the ticket price), so you'd need to arrange your own insurance if you wanted that.

 

[jrh2254]

I think the moral of the story is: put your laptop away if people sharing your table have drinks!

I used to go on railtours (still do, once in a blue moon) and liked to have my maps, Rail Atlas etc. to hand... but they went back into my bag in the blink of an eye if my fellow passengers bought or produced drinks, particularly tea or coffee. Sorry, but I've seen it go all over the table too many times (ie, more than once!). I trust no-one!

Good advice and back up all data regularly.

 

[DelayRepay]

OK thanks that seems to be very clear. I do not have cover for high risk items away from the home so means I would have to get the name and address of the passenger and ask them for compensation. Expect this could be a tricky situation needing name/address details etc. , which relies on the honesty of the other person. I will have to pick my seat more carefully in future!

Thanks.

Do you have home insurance of your own? If you do, see if you can add cover for high value items e.g. laptop - I did and it only cost a couple of extra pounds a year. I certainly wouldn't fancy trying to claim from a member of the public if they damaged my equipment!

 

[syorksdeano]

Interesting question coming up (I do have them sometimes).

Given that trains advertise plug sockets for use of laptops or mobile phones, who would be liable if a surge took place damaging laptop or mobile?

I've seen adverts saying that plug sockets available, but no disclaimer.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is it my responsibility to claim from the person who caused the damage or does the train operator have insurance to cover such losses (say included in the ticket price).

I'd say the person who did it. They may well find they have general third party liability cover as part of their home contents insurance if they have it - it is as common as it is poorly known about!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

OK thanks that seems to be very clear. I do not have cover for high risk items away from the home so means I would have to get the name and address of the passenger and ask them for compensation. Expect this could be a tricky situation needing name/address details etc. , which relies on the honesty of the other person. I will have to pick my seat more carefully in future!

Or if you have a particularly expensive laptop you often use on the train, you might do well to consider taking such cover on it.

FWIW, with my policy (Direct Line), as soon as I added bicycle cover to the standard home insurance policy (to cover the many days when it sits at the station), it was actually cheaper to upgrade to the premium one which has lots of extra features including home emergency cover (used that once when the boiler conked out) and, relevant to this case, "all risks" on personal possessions outside the home.

 

[Senex]

The person who spilt the water is liable.

Suppose the water spilt as the train jerked in passing over track that whatever reason had fallen below the normal maintenance parameters?

 

[route:oxford]

I was travelling back home on the train one evening this week and was sat on a table of 4 with 2 people sat opposite me. i had my laptop open and was engrossed in using this. I then heard the person opposite me say 'sorry' and start mopping the table at the back of my laptop. I lifted up my laptop to reveal liquid dripping from underneath next to the battery dept and i immediately wiped away the water. On closer inspection it appeared that none had entered the laptop. Now this was fortunate but had the water permanently damaged the laptop what is the procedure for determining liability. Is it my responsibility to claim from the person who caused the damage or does the train operator have insurance to cover such losses (say included in the ticket price).

Many thanks.

You'd have to put it down to experience.

Tables are there for more than one reason - one of those is sitting food and drink containers and on a moving vehicle there is a good chance that they will spill.

It is your responsibility to undertake reasonable due diligence and be aware of the risk of spillage when using devices that would not interact well with liquid ingress.

Don't forget that it isn't just liquid that can cause issues. Most laptops don't appreciate keys dropped on tables engaging with ports.

In the event I was asked for details. I'd offer to take the laptop off the individuals hands in order that I could have it assessed or attempt to clean it myself.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Given that trains advertise plug sockets for use of laptops or mobile phones...
[SNIP]
I've seen adverts saying that plug sockets available...

I would be interested to see any use of that terminology by a TOC. Can you point me to an example?
This kind of description is more likely to be the case.

More on topic, I think that it would be a hard job getting the other passenger to stump up any cash. I think the extended insurance cover is the best option.

 

[redbutton]

You may already be covered under home contents insurance if it covers items away from home at all. For example, my insurer only requires an additional rider for items valued at over £2000.

Very few laptops cost that much these days.

Here's an interesting question: what if the liquid belonged to a passenger but was knocked over when the train rocked due to a kink in the line?

 

[broadgage]

Suppose the water spilt as the train jerked in passing over track that whatever reason had fallen below the normal maintenance parameters?

"Normal" is too open to argument. If the track was so badly maintained as to be dangerous, then I believe that network rail would be liable.
If however the train passed over without de-railment or damage, then I believe that the odd rough spot is just one of those things.

 

[34D]

Is a passenger obliged to give their details to another?

 

[47271]

Ha, never mind 'laptops', I have a more direct experience of this. I'd be interested in how you'd make any sort of claim in my case.

Around ten years ago I was on the rearwards facing aisle seat of a table on an Edinburgh to Glasgow train which was required, as they do from time to time, to crossover from the Fife line after the Haymarket stop. I was calmly reading my broadsheet Glasgow Herald, a large newspaper preventing a forward view. The crossover caused some movement and deceleration and the entire spillage of a large cup belonging to the person opposite. A coffee tsunami appeared under my paper and, luckily cooled by the expanse of the table, ended entirely on my 'lap'.

I thought that I could survive but it wasn't a difficult decision to alight at Linlithgow and return home for a significant change of clothes.

I arrived for work three hours late and missed two meetings. We all thought it was hilarious but, if we hadn't, I suppose that we'd had to pursue the poor lady who had the mishap at the points...

 

[yorkie]

Suppose the water spilt as the train jerked in passing over track that whatever reason had fallen below the normal maintenance parameters?

For something like that, it could well muddy the waters considerably, believe this may be "compound negligence".

We don't know exactly what the other party did to cause the spillage, and we don't know the exact positioning of the laptop or the bottle, or whether the OP knew a water bottle was in close proximity etc. For example if someone was already sat down eating and drinking and someone chose to sat opposite and got an expensive laptop out in close proximity, then I wonder if that could perhaps make a difference, due to "comparative negligence".

A little water probably won't have done much damage to a laptop, for example if just the power supply unit needed replacing that's a relatively small proportion of the overall cost of the device.

The insurance of either party may well cover it, but if the excess is £100 then it may be cheaper not to claim!

Is a passenger obliged to give their details to another?

I think the question should be asked is "is a person obliged to give their details to another?" which may be precisely what you meant but I don't think the fact it's on a train makes any difference in the case described in the opening post.

 

[DaleCooper]

Suppose the water spilt as the train jerked in passing over track that whatever reason had fallen below the normal maintenance parameters?

How would anyone be able to identify the exact piece of track that had caused the train to jerk. It's unlikely that the persons involved would immediately look out of the window and memorise some landmark or piece of trackside hardware that would pinpoint the place or even time the event with any accuracy, especially if travelling at 100mph.

 

[backontrack]

How would anyone be able to identify the exact piece of track that had caused the train to jerk. It's unlikely that the persons involved would immediately look out of the window and memorise some landmark or piece of trackside hardware that would pinpoint the place or even time the event with any accuracy, especially if travelling at 100mph.

I think there's a simple moral here:

Never, ever, take drinks on a pacer.

 

[Johnuk123]

Is a passenger obliged to give their details to another?

Absolutely not.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ha, never mind 'laptops', I have a more direct experience of this. I'd be interested in how you'd make any sort of claim in my case.

As it's perfectly normal behaviour to have a coffee on a table on a train, I would think a claim on that one would fail, because nobody had done anything negligent per-se. TBH, provided I got a polite apology when it happened, I expect I'd have gone no further. If it were mine I'd probably have offered to pay for the dry cleaning of a suit if the "victim" were wearing one, though. Otherwise, just one of those things.

I think negligence would only really kick in if they had it in their hands and thrown it everywhere then, for instance.

 

[Busaholic]

Ha, never mind 'laptops', I have a more direct experience of this. I'd be interested in how you'd make any sort of claim in my case.

Around ten years ago I was on the rearwards facing aisle seat of a table on an Edinburgh to Glasgow train which was required, as they do from time to time, to crossover from the Fife line after the Haymarket stop. I was calmly reading my broadsheet Glasgow Herald, a large newspaper preventing a forward view. The crossover caused some movement and deceleration and the entire spillage of a large cup belonging to the person opposite. A coffee tsunami appeared under my paper and, luckily cooled by the expanse of the table, ended entirely on my 'lap'.

I thought that I could survive but it wasn't a difficult decision to alight at Linlithgow and return home for a significant change of clothes.

I arrived for work three hours late and missed two meetings. We all thought it was hilarious but, if we hadn't, I suppose that we'd had to pursue the poor lady who had the mishap at the points...

Friday night train from Euston to Preston. Standing as far as Warrington, at the end of one carriage, my wife had near-boiling water spilled on her arm by someone returning from the buffet. She still has the scar, forty years on! Profuse apologies were all she got, not that she would have wanted anything else.

 

[Bodiddly]

Until they invent trains that are for 1 person use, things like this will happen. Personally, I go for the trust no one concept and put any gadgets away from risk.
It's so easy for a mishap to take place but so very difficult to prove fault. Unless you are a Philadelphia lawyer, it's a legal minefield. Add to the fact one passenger asking another for their details seldom would go down well.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Friday night train from Euston to Preston. Standing as far as Warrington, at the end of one carriage, my wife had near-boiling water spilled on her arm by someone returning from the buffet. She still has the scar, forty years on! Profuse apologies were all she got, not that she would have wanted anything else.

If it's considered acceptable to carry hot drinks on trains, as it seems it is[1], then that is unlikely to have involved negligence per-se, so an apology (and help to get first aid) is all that is really called for.

[1] Lids and bags reduce the risk of this, which is why they won't sell drinks if they run out of either - I imagine you didn't get either back then?

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I had an incident like this as mentioned elsewhere on this thread with a spillage of a large cup of black coffee over a bloke who wearing full cricket whites, slacks, wool sweater etc and who was taking a load of similar sweaters to a cricket event, it cost me a lot of money!

 

[TheEdge]

I had an incident like this as mentioned elsewhere on this thread with a spillage of a large cup of black coffee over a bloke who wearing full cricket whites, slacks, wool sweater etc and who was taking a load of similar sweaters to a cricket event, it cost me a lot of money!

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