Halton Curve upgrade is on

[frodshamfella]

Looking at the report, there is no justification for the work, even if any of those electrification projects were to go ahead in the near future.

I look forward to this link reopening, and will find it most useful to get into Liverpool City and Liverpool Airport. Maybe we should all be glad of some investment in the areas rail network for a change, its pretty poor compared to the southeast for example.

 

[Sox]

Looks like it could be 2018 before H-curve is reinstated for general use.

Three years seems a long time, T-curve took a long time but that's because it had to be reinstated from scratch.

With the vast catchment area, I can't see Halton being anything other than a massive success.

It is full steam ahead for the highly-anticipated reinstatement of the Halton Curve.

The single-line track which runs between Frodsham Junction and Halton Junction has been closed to regular passenger services since 1975.

But an outline business case which proposes an hourly direct service on the line between Liverpool and Chester via Liverpool South Parkway is currently out for consultation.

The plan to reinstate the 1.5 mile railway line has received ‘in principle’ funding of £10.4m as part of the Government’s Local Growth Fund, subject to business case approval.

A full business case – which would require approval by the Liverpool City Region Local Enterprise Partnership and the Liverpool City Region Combined Authority – is expected to be completed in the summer.

If the scheme receives the green light, work could begin either next year or 2017, with services operating from early 2018.

http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/halton-curve-rail-line-could-9648769

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Crucially, Network Rail hasn't said anything about the Weaver Jn-Liverpool upgrade project on which the Halton Curve reinstatement depends.
Any NR project that has not yet started is under review as part of the wider CP5 funding problems.
The whole of the Northern Hub is in the same position.
It may be months before there is any clarity.

 

[WatcherZero]

The business case from months ago which identified a single hourly service as best value? Whys it getting wheeled out again by media now?

 

[childwallblues]

No other news worthy of writing about?

 

[Sox]

Always good to keep these things in the public's eye.

 

[Railman]

It sounds like we must get ready to accept its not going to happen for a long time, I always said once the announcement was made and a date assigned, they should be made to stick to it even if it means re instating the original junctions and signalling. Just because NR cant get the bigger schemes in, they should be forced to provide the line by other means. The local MP said on riding the "Parly" this summer hopefully it will be the last year of that service. Sounds like it could go back 5 or more years now!

 

[CdBrux]

It sounds like we must get ready to accept its not going to happen for a long time, I always said once the announcement was made and a date assigned, they should be made to stick to it even if it means re instating the original junctions and signalling. Just because NR cant get the bigger schemes in, they should be forced to provide the line by other means. The local MP said on riding the "Parly" this summer hopefully it will be the last year of that service. Sounds like it could go back 5 or more years now!

I understood this scheme is made significantly cheaper as it piggybacks on those other works. If, say, you did as you propose and ended up with 2 schemes costing significantly more money overall then, within a limited budget overall, you will need to make cuts elsewhere and you get overall less for your money.

 

[Railman]

My point is when these proposals are put forward, and the various parties are told they can have this for a certain price if they come up with the money by a set date, then if they do provide the funds, and NR finds its incapable of bringing in the big scheme (Weaver - Wavertree) they should be made to keep to the promise at their expense. The work involved in re-instating the connection is only putting back what was already there. It is not really a "new scheme" the signal boxes, and I suspect the mechanical interlocking is still in place just levers painted white.
The new Mersey road crossing will be open in 2017, that bridge and the original Runcorn bridge will be Toll roads. All of the new road systems will have been built to feed the new Bridge, and the railway is incapable of putting back a short stretch of track?

 

[CdBrux]

I see your point, and indeed I suspect in the private sector such 'penalty clauses' would be more likely to incentivise, in this case Network Rail, not to overpromise and then to stick to their plan unless both parties mutually agree otherwise. Of course here though we are talking about two public bodies where the risk falls ultimately to the taxpayer and not to private shareholders.

 

[Camden]

It would be a travesty to come so far on something so long sought after, only for it to fall at the last hurdle. It's hardly big-bucks, but it's a pivotal project with so much future potential in a region (Merseyside and environs) that currently sees little investment despite having very high railway use.

 

[Railman]

To see the "alternative" to rail look up the "Mersey Gateway" website. The scheme is well underway to ease congestion over the original bridge, a look at the map of the new road system, will show just how small the railway connection would be, and yet it cant be done quicker than that massive project. Something is wrong somewhere?

 

[frodshamfella]

It would be a travesty to come so far on something so long sought after, only for it to fall at the last hurdle. It's hardly big-bucks, but it's a pivotal project with so much future potential in a region (Merseyside and environs) that currently sees little investment despite having very high railway use.

Totally agree, rail investment in Cheshire / Merseyside is poor...nothing since Liverpool South Parkway, as far as I can remember. This link is greatly needed, and its about time the region had some improvements.

 

[LDECRexile]

Totally agree, rail investment in Cheshire / Merseyside is poor...nothing since Liverpool South Parkway, as far as I can remember. This link is greatly needed, and its about time the region had some improvements.

Please note that these investments have happened or are under way:

Lime Street to Newton-le-Willows (and beyond) electrification
Lime Street to Garswood (and beyond) electrification
Roby Jct-Huyton Jct requadrupling
Liverpool Central improvements
Merseyrail's other current station improvements
Newcastle Flyer reinstated from Lime Street

I'm not sure if the Olive Mount Chord came after Liverpool South Parkway.

I know even less about Cheshire, but doesn't the Chester-Wrexham redoubling count as rail investment, plus the Class 67 hauled trains from Wales to Manchester via Frodsham?

I warmly welcome the Halton Curve reinstatement as yet another investment in the region's railways.

 

[The Planner]

Lime St re-signalling and re-modelling, Weaver - Wavertree, neither of which are dead?

 

[Camden]

That has yet to be confirmed!

 

[LDECRexile]

Lime St re-signalling and re-modelling, Weaver - Wavertree, neither of which are dead?

Could you please point me to sources where I could learn more about these?

With thanks in anticipation.

Dave

PS does the recently announced biomass from Liverpool to Drax count as investment?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

An extra Pendolino and now mostly 11-car, at Liverpool/Runcorn.
More trains stopping at South Parkway.
4tph Liverpool-Chester (was 2tph).
Lime St facelift (much nicer entrance/facade).
I can't remember when EMT doubled the Notts service to 4-car, but it used to be 2.
Modest improvements, but more than negligible.
Not much change around Chester since the hourly Voyager, although the station has at last had a makeover.

 

[8A Rail]

PS does the recently announced biomass from Liverpool to Drax count as investment?

I would suggest no! It is a normal "business" contract between two parties to get goods from A to B using existing infrastructure.

Any "investment" would be by either GBRf (for locos / hoppers), Peel Holdings (expansion of LBT), and Drax PS as part of their own business plans / forecast.

 

[frodshamfella]

Please note that these investments have happened or are under way:

Lime Street to Newton-le-Willows (and beyond) electrification
Lime Street to Garswood (and beyond) electrification
Roby Jct-Huyton Jct requadrupling
Liverpool Central improvements
Merseyrail's other current station improvements
Newcastle Flyer reinstated from Lime Street

I'm not sure if the Olive Mount Chord came after Liverpool South Parkway.

I know even less about Cheshire, but doesn't the Chester-Wrexham redoubling count as rail investment, plus the Class 67 hauled trains from Wales to Manchester via Frodsham?

I warmly welcome the Halton Curve reinstatement as yet another investment in the region's railways.

That's good, and I hope Halton Curve will too

 

[LDECRexile]

I would suggest no! It is a normal "business" contract between two parties to get goods from A to B using existing infrastructure.

Any "investment" would be by either GBRf (for loco's / hoppers), Peel Holdings (expansion of LBT), and Drax PS as part of their own business plans / forecast.

That makes sense, thank you.

I suggest it is therefore a fruit of investments made by Network Rail (Olive Mount Chord), Peel Holdings (expansion of LBT) and Drax (de-carbonising, if there is such a word) encouraged by government policy towards coal.

Of course we could just call it good news.

 

[Wavertreelad]

Could you please point me to sources where I could learn more about these?

With thanks in anticipation.

Dave

PS does the recently announced biomass from Liverpool to Drax count as investment?

Dave

Lime Street was covered by this thread which includes some links to official sources.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=114124

Agree the Biomass to Drax is an investment, but by Peel and therefore in the private sector, so not quite sure if we can make a like for like comparison with the Halton Curve public sector investment.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Dave
Lime Street was covered by this thread which includes some links to official sources.
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=114124
Agree the Biomass to Drax is an investment, but by Peel and therefore in the private sector, so not quite sure if we can make a like for like comparison with the Halton Curve public sector investment.

The big picture is not so rosy.
Biomass trains from Liverpool replace coal from somewhere else (Hunstanton, Immingham?) to Drax - meaning less traffic over lines like the S&C.
It needs new generating capacity for real growth, and there's no sign of that for solid fuel types.
The closure of Ferrybridge, Ironbridge and Longannet power stations means a decline of train movements overall.
Hopefully nuclear traffic from Wylfa will come back one day.

 

[LDECRexile]

Dave

Lime Street was covered by this thread which includes some links to official sources.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=114124
.

Thank you.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The big picture is not so rosy.
Biomass trains from Liverpool replace coal from somewhere else (Hunstanton, Immingham?) to Drax - meaning less traffic over lines like the S&C.
It needs new generating capacity for real growth, and there's no sign of that for solid fuel types.
The closure of Ferrybridge, Ironbridge and Longannet power stations means a decline of train movements overall.
Hopefully nuclear traffic from Wylfa will come back one day.

Agreed

The very big picture is that coal and, eventually, biomass will cease altogether. They will be replaced with gas and, hopefully, renewables, which don't need rail. We are not talking far distant futures either.

Hatfield and Thoresby pits have shut recently (meaning the end of conventional revenue-earning service on the LDECR unless the Shirebrook-Ollerton dream comes to pass, by the way) leaving just one British pit, and that not for long.

For rail freight to have an expanding future (or even to hold its own) it has to crack the cost and convenience conundrum.

Most freight is wagonload or less, just look at any motorway. If rail freight can't crack wagonload traffic its future outside containers from ports is bleak.

What became of Freight Multiple Units?

 

[Wavertreelad]

Thank you.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Agreed

The very big picture is that coal and, eventually, biomass will cease altogether. They will be replaced with gas and, hopefully, renewables, which don't need rail. We are not talking far distant futures either.

Hatfield and Thoresby pits have shut recently (meaning the end of conventional revenue-earning service on the LDECR unless the Shirebrook-Ollerton dream comes to pass, by the way) leaving just one British pit, and that not for long.

For rail freight to have an expanding future (or even to hold its own) it has to crack the cost and convenience conundrum.

Most freight is wagonload or less, just look at any motorway. If rail freight can't crack wagonload traffic its future outside containers from ports is bleak.

What became of Freight Multiple Units?

I fear we may be straying from the thread but I'm not even sure containers is a guaranteed growth area in the longer term. Once Liverpool2 opens and starts to attract the deep sea shipping lines there could be less demand for the present number north to south and vice versa rail movements as business is transferred to the new terminal. Now I emphasise that these north to south movements will not totally disappear because there will be operation in the south of England that are not served from Liverpool2, but with growth in the market likely to be centred on the Seaforth railhead, what long term future is there for Garston, and perhaps even Trafford Park I believe is also on Peel land? Liverpool2 could generate traffic for the south of England and the Midlands, as well as east of the Pennines, but Peels own water based feeder services to Greenock could capture a large amount of traffic to and from Scotland. I think there was a thread started on the Liverpool2 development, perhaps it's something that needs further discussion?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I fear we may be straying from the thread but I'm not even sure containers is a guaranteed growth area in the longer term. Once Liverpool2 opens and starts to attract the deep sea shipping lines there could be less demand for the present number north to south and vice versa rail movements as business is transferred to the new terminal. Now I emphasise that these north to south movements will not totally disappear because there will be operation in the south of England that are not served from Liverpool2, but with growth in the market likely to be centred on the Seaforth railhead, what long term future is there for Garston, and perhaps even Trafford Park I believe is also on Peel land? Liverpool2 could generate traffic for the south of England and the Midlands, as well as east of the Pennines, but Peels own water based feeder services to Greenock could capture a large amount of traffic to and from Scotland. I think there was a thread started on the Liverpool2 development, perhaps it's something that needs further discussion?

It's gone very quiet on the rail connection to Port Salford too.

 

[Greenback]

Please stray back on topic in this thread! If you want to discuss the future of rail freight (or anything else) then feel free to start a new, dedicated thread, but please can we keep this one related tot eh Halton curve? Thanks!

 

[mpb56125]

Serious work has now started on re-opening the Halton Curve to bi-birectional traffic.

Vegetation has been cut back in places and this week engineer trains have started to run.

Some pictures at https://mark5812.smugmug.com/Trains-2015/September-2015/

Mark
https://mark5812.smugmug.com

 

[frodshamfella]

Great to see some work beginning

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Trying not to dampen things, but isn't it likely to be regular maintenance to bring it up to spec?
The real work will be new track and signalling installations at each end, and I shouldn't think any of that is going to happen for some time yet (as part of the Weaver Jn-Edge Hill works).
Looks like improved drainage is going in.