Rail passengers to face airport-style security checks?

[Bletchleyite]

Just out of interest what arches in arrivals?

At all airports I've arrived at anything like recently in the UK (LTN, LHR, LGW, LCY mainly) there are some grey metal arches you walk through after baggage reclaim and customs but before arriving in the arrivals hall. There is no information on them and they don't inhibit you walking through in any way, and it would be easy not to notice them. There is very little information available about them, but I did a bit of research and found that they are to catch people attempting to bring in radioactive materials in order to help counter the threat from dirty bombs and similar.

Unsurprisingly I can't find any photos of them, but next time you arrive at a UK airport look out for them, they will be there.

They are mentioned in this article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ty-bombs-disguised-pillars-direct-queues.html

Also this Flyertalk thread refers:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/u-k-ireland/995543-t3-customs-scanner.html

 

[thenorthern]

This really annoys me. We managed to cope during the IRA attacks. Why not now? Have we really become so weak as a people?

I think the argument is that bombing campaign by the IRA in England was vastly different to that of the Islamic related terrorism we see today as officially the IRA didn't deliberately target civilians and most of the time gave coded warnings before attacks where as Islamic related terror groups will attempt to kill as many civilians as possible and is not afraid to use suicide bombing.

I agree with you though we seems to have coped better during the Northern Ireland Troubles than we are doing now.

 

[Hornet]

Well I suppose the IRA were a different kind of threat to some degree including being less inclined to blow themselves up, and of course sometimes they would give warnings, and perhaps taking as much pleasure from the disruption rather than killing large numbers.

I think if we end up with more airport style security style screening then I will be using the car more and the train less.

I expect the new HS2 stations will be built to accommodate Airport style security screening regardless of whether they actually implement it or not,

Yes. The IRA are a much nicer class of Terrorist (They haven't gone away, you know). I was in Warrington on that fateful day. I was also in Keady shortly before an indiscriminate mortar wiped out a security checkpoint, and the soldier in it. Honestly, some people want to make me vomit.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-34093058

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes. The IRA are a much nicer class of Terrorist (They haven't gone away, you know)

Every time I read that in that context I am reminded of Gerry Adams saying precisely that in his accent.

What has gone away is a lot of the US funding now the US realised terrorism is bad.

FWIW I was in Manchester the day that went up, and I also got sort-of caught up in the Aintree Racecourse warning. In the latter case, the railway helped out admirably by letting people travel home, wherever they happened to be going, for free, as most had left wallets etc on the tables when evacuated, and many had had to abandon cars.

 

[najaB]

I think the argument is that bombing campaign by the IRA in England was vastly different to that of the Islamic related terrorism we see today...

Not trying to be PC, but as I understand it the proper term is Islamist - Islamic refers to the religion, Islamist describes the political philosophy (from the root Islamism). (Oh, the irony of being a grammar Nazi about Islam!)

 

[Hornet]

Every time I read that in that context I am reminded of Gerry Adams saying precisely that in his accent.

What has gone away is a lot of the US funding now the US realised terrorism is bad.

FWIW I was in Manchester the day that went up, and I also got sort-of caught up in the Aintree Racecourse warning. In the latter case, the railway helped out admirably by letting people travel home, wherever they happened to be going, for free, as most had left wallets etc on the tables when evacuated, and many had had to abandon cars.

Funding is now coming from the vast criminality in laundered fuels and smuggled cigarettes, in the unpoliced border counties. Also huge amounts of European funding has been diverted into the pockets of these "reformed" characters. (Billions, rather than Millions). There are plenty of very expensive properties dotted along the South Armagh border, most of which are owned by the multi millionaire crooks in the PIRA, CIRA and other Republican Groups.

It is widely known here in the ROI that part of the deal to remove the IRA from the stage was to allow it a fairly free hand at Criminality. Hence the Northern Bank raid and the fuel and ciggies scam. Rather the Terrorists robbing us than blowing us up, the UK and Irish Goverments are quite happy for the criminality to continue. Sinn Fein are probably the richest Political Party both in Ireland and the UK. They are also likely to be one of the largest parties in the Dail (Parliment) after the next election, which is due in 2016, and most people with an interest in Ireland will know how important 2016 is. If anyone thinks that Irish Terrorism has "Gone Away" then they are sadly deluded.

 

[47802]

Yes. The IRA are a much nicer class of Terrorist (They haven't gone away, you know). I was in Warrington on that fateful day. I was also in Keady shortly before an indiscriminate mortar wiped out a security checkpoint, and the soldier in it. Honestly, some people want to make me vomit.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-34093058

I think I am slightly annoyed by that comment, I wasn't trying to suggest that the IRA were acceptable in any shape or form, or that they still don't exist, I live very close to where the M62 coach bombing was, but pointing out its a different threat in that they didn't tend to try and kill civilians in the numbers that the terrorists we face today are wanting to, or be as prepared to kill themselves in the process, and of course the IRA was more of a local threat rather than a international one.

 

[Hornet]

I think I am slightly annoyed by that comment, I wasn't trying to suggest that the IRA were acceptable in any shape or form, or that they still don't exist, I live very close to where the M62 coach bombing was, but pointing out its a different threat in that they didn't tend to try and kill civilians in the numbers that the terrorists we face today are wanting to, or be as prepared to kill themselves in the process, and of course the IRA was more of a local threat rather than a international one.

IRA International Operations.

Colombia.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/us-presses-ira-over-foreign-operations-302750.html

Holland.
http://www.nytimes.com/1988/05/02/w...are-killed-in-ira-attacks-in-netherlands.html

Germany.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/1987/mar/25/northernireland.germany
http://www.historyireland.com/20th-...heres-to-adolph-hitler-the-ira-and-the-nazis/

Gibraltar.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/events/three_ira_members_shot_dead_in_gibraltar

As the IRA see the British as "Foreign Occupiers", then to them any attack on British soil could be deemed as International.

The IRA's link's with other Terrorist Organisations are well documented. Their funding and arming was from International sources. They are an International Terrorist Organisation.

 

[thenorthern]

One of the thing they are discussing today in Brussels is having more armed guards at railway stations which on the continent just means more police or more police with bigger guns however in the United Kingdom simply seeing armed police in a place you don't expect to most people is rather worrying and can often cause alarm.

If they did introduce baggage scanning at stations I wonder if they would be strict as at airport with having to take laptops out of bags, belts off and bloody shoes with metal eyelids setting off the alarm.

I can honestly say I would not want to be a European Interior Minister (Home Secretary) at the moment given all that is going on.

 

[fowler9]

At all airports I've arrived at anything like recently in the UK (LTN, LHR, LGW, LCY mainly) there are some grey metal arches you walk through after baggage reclaim and customs but before arriving in the arrivals hall. There is no information on them and they don't inhibit you walking through in any way, and it would be easy not to notice them. There is very little information available about them, but I did a bit of research and found that they are to catch people attempting to bring in radioactive materials in order to help counter the threat from dirty bombs and similar.

Unsurprisingly I can't find any photos of them, but next time you arrive at a UK airport look out for them, they will be there.

They are mentioned in this article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ty-bombs-disguised-pillars-direct-queues.html

Also this Flyertalk thread refers:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/u-k-ireland/995543-t3-customs-scanner.html

Cheer mate, I will look out for them.

 

[Argosy]

Agreed

But at least it gives me a chance to laugh at the various comments on the Daily Fail website.

The UK won't be as bad as China where every subway station I visited you had to go via security check-points (metal detectors, bags via x-ray machines)

Well its not too bad in China. Run more like airports. All luggage scanned no problem, but you don't go onto the platform until 5 minutes before the train is due. Virtually all Chinese journeys are long distance though.

 

[broadgage]

I cant see airport style security scanning working at railway stations for the reasons already given by others, and also at many stations each platform entrance would need a security checkpoint, not just each station.

Consider Reading. You can get to Reading from numerous suburban stations many of which are not even manned. At Reading you can then board a West of England Express without any check, at present.

And of course none of this stops a terrorist killing large numbers on a station concourse, before the barrier.

 

[Qwerty133]

I have to find it kind of ironic that on the same day as the government are thinking of introducing stricter controls to try and stop terrorism, the police are trying to trace a terrorist who has chosen to move to Syria and bring her back to the UK.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Two words. Daily Mail.

One word. Nope.

 

[thenorthern]

I have to find it kind of ironic that on the same day as the government are thinking of introducing stricter controls to try and stop terrorism, the police are trying to trace a terrorist who has chosen to move to Syria and bring her back to the UK.

Sadly thats not the first case that this has happened, there was a case in my area recently and the government paid for her to return to the country.

 

[najaB]

... the police are trying to trace a terrorist who has chosen to move to Syria...

If you are referring to Zahera Tariq, exactly what act of terrorism is she suspected of being involved in?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34092544

European ministers have agreed tighter controls at railway stations, the French interior minister has announced.
Bernard Cazeneuve said there would be increased identity and baggage controls at stations and more police patrols on board international trains

I presume this means little for the UK directly, as it would only affect Eurostar and all the security procedures are already in use.
However, it will affect cross-border travel on the continent if implemented as indicated in the report above.
First nail in the coffin for control-free Schengen area travel?
The end of this slippery slope is the American setup where passenger lists are sent to the destination country for pre-clearance before you can travel.
It will of course put costs (=fares) up. We'll have a security surcharge next.

 

[Greenback]

It's a bad idea all round. It won't prevent terrorist incidents, it will inconvenience travellers and lead to increased fares for no benefit whatsoever.

 

[Qwerty133]

If you are referring to Zahera Tariq, exactly what act of terrorism is she suspected of being involved in?

Moving to Syria to support 'Islamic State', whatever the official definition anyone going to that extent to support a terrorist group is a terrorist in my opinion.

 

[GatwickDepress]

It's a bad idea all round. It won't prevent terrorist incidents, it will inconvenience travellers and lead to increased fares for no benefit whatsoever.

Indeed. It's nothing more than security theatre.

 

[najaB]

Moving to Syria to support 'Islamic State', whatever the official definition anyone going to that extent to support a terrorist group is a terrorist in my opinion.

I know this is going to come across all 'Guardian' but (a) we don't know for 100% fact that is why she has disappeared, and (b) assuming that she's not yet in Syria she is a terrorist sympathiser at worst. Most of these young women don't actually hold extreme Islamist views. They are, like many young people, attracted by the romance and excitement of a 'bad boy' and they don't come much 'badder' than IS.

IS/ISIS/ISIL are very slick in their use of social media to appeal to disaffected young people, and they have a large media budget. Several Brits have been lured out there but later sought to come back when they found out one unchanging truth - war is hell.

 

[suzanneparis]

Knives are a constant threat and should be scanned for.

Some city centres now have police manned walk through knife detectors occasionally at weekends.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How many knife attacks do you see on Intercity trains? I never heard of any.

 

[najaB]

How many knife attacks do you see on Intercity trains? I never heard of any.

Well, the recent French suspect was also armed with a knife (or knives).

 

[Class 170101]

Love to know how you would scan people at a small Intercity station

eg Morpeth, Alnmouth, Retford. :roll:

 

[najaB]

Morpeth, Alnmouth, Retford. :roll:

Lockerbie...

 

[dk1]

Didn't we have all this hype after the Madrid train bombings? Soon went quiet & back to normal again.

 

[thenorthern]

Supposing they did introduce security checks at stations I wonder if commuters from Bromsgrove or Cannock could claim for delay repay because of "delays going through security" caused them to miss their trains forcing them to wait an hour at Birmingham New Street.

I know though security checks won't happen though and I am thankful to Mi5 and the great work they do in preventing terror attacks and long may it continue. I think they stopped three terror attacks in three months last year alone.

 

[najaB]

I think they stopped three terror attacks in three months last year alone.

And that's just the ones they wanted you to know about...

 

[A-driver]

How many knife attacks do you see on Intercity trains? I never heard of any.

Well (and not that is really matters) but there was one on a cross country train near Lancaster some years ago where staff locked a knife armed passenger in a carriage and evacuated the ready of the passengers after he threatened someone. Havnt got time to look for the news link at the moment but will look later.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1519648/Man-stabbed-to-death-on-holiday-train.html

Link didn't take as long to find as I thought. 2006. Basically says what I stated above for those who can't open it. Knife armed attacker murdered someone by stabbing them in the stomach on a cross country IC train.