BestWestern
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...like most DOO Drivers do
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W Driver Only Operated Trains (DOO) discussion
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...like most DOO Drivers do
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I wouldn't know as I have never asked any of them I was merely highlighting that the practice already happens.
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G136GREYHOUND
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Is all well and good until as a driver, you find yourself standing in your best suit, behind a brass rail as some guy in a wig who knows nothing about the reality of train operations asks you the question :
" I ask you directly, and please give me a one word answer, were you 100% certain that it was safe to close the doors and take power"
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Not take off, landing etc is also dependant on the arrival airports equipment. OT I know but it pains me.
Not the way FGW and DaFT are proposing to operate these trains it doesn't!:roll:
That is what is potentially happening on out TOC. With a young woman losing a limb at West Wickham due to the use of DOO. If there was a Guard then IT WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED.
If that is not a clear case for the prevention of further introduction of DOO then what is ? How many more lost limbs will there be before people get the point.
How many more Drivers will face court action ?
Ask FGW if they are prepared to accept liability.
bb21
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While I hate to be a party pooper, and understand that it is just a little humour, I must point out that as the forum does not support hashtags, please try and avoid using them, as it can cause legibility issues. It would be most appreciated.
Goldfish62
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Correct, there was no case to install them on safety grounds. It just happened to be a by product.
These tragic incidents should rightly be investigated and any lessons learned ,so far though no one's posted any compelling evidence that even the ending of all DOO operations today would turn out to be a guaranteed way of reducing them in future
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We need to get this into perspective, although it seems that some people would rather not.
Look up how many young women have lost their lives in London alone due to being hit by an HGV while cycling. Surely then, there should be a "conductor" in every HGV cab...
Look up how many young women have lost their lives in London alone due to being hit by an HGV while cycling. Surely then, there should be a "conductor" in every HGV cab...
BestWestern
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That's a very poor link between two wildly different topics.
Indeed, but your modern Boeing and Airbus are mostly Cat 3 equipped and most of the major airports in the world have Cat 3 approaches. Takeoff is less automated but most airline SOP's call for the auto pilot to be engaged at acceleration height. Two flight crew are not strictly needed as the workload would be manageable with one but they still are still required to have two. That is my point.
(sorry this is a massive tangent from what the thread is about but wanted to make clear that I do know what I'm talking about
)Why are they wildly different?
They both involved young women. They both involved transport. They both involve accidents as a result of using that transport. And they both involve cost versus safety considerations.
You'd like them to be wildly different, but actually they are, at heart, the subject of very similar considerations.
BestWestern
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No, they really aren't!
I'm not even going to try and unpick such a silly argument. There is no correlation.
Ah okay then..... Lorries are now similar to trains with lots of people boarding and alighting at each station. Remind me, where is the Platform Lorry Interface in this scenario?
ASLEF posted a circular a while ago that goes out nationwide about DOO CCTV cameras. It states that they won't accept it if they operate above 6mp/h or 6km/h after trails on the Southern. So that blows that argument for DOO monitors been on until the last carriage has left the station, unless it crawls out.
The lesson is not being learnt. The RAIB also only make "recommendations"
That's kinda my point isn't it. With 49 major incidents last year it still isn't enough "proof" that DOO is failing. How many will be enough ?
What we are doing is accepting that incidents will happen. It is an excuse that is being used to keep DOO and to implement it further. If anything there is no compelling evidence to support the removal of the Guard. I do not see it as anything more than a financial gain. I have not heard of any benefit to the passenger.
G136GREYHOUND
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We need to get this into perspective, although it seems that some people would rather not.
Look up how many young women have lost their lives in London alone due to being hit by an HGV while cycling. Surely then, there should be a "conductor" in every HGV cab...
OK................So a race to the bottom of safety is fine. Just because one method of travel is less safe than another doesn't mean that we should accept more risk in the safer form surely ?
All these " X travel is safer than Y travel " analogies are, in my opinion, pretty stupid.
Look up how many young women have lost their lives in London alone due to being hit by an HGV while cycling. Surely then, there should be a "conductor" in every HGV cab...
OK................So a race to the bottom of safety is fine. Just because one method of travel is less safe than another doesn't mean that we should accept more risk in the safer form surely ?
All these " X travel is safer than Y travel " analogies are, in my opinion, pretty stupid.
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Quite, however that is the argument they are always going to push in teh public realm for the reasons to go to DOO.And then some blather about reducing costs which to the public will make them think cheaper tickets and theyll be for it.
Not saying its right, just saying it how it actually is.
SpacePhoenix
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Of all routes that have guards, what sort of % are the guards "guard duty" only with no revenue duties?
chris11256
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One of c2c's twitter team used to be a driver on their route. I asked for his/her perspective in DOO. They said that personally they would always prefer a guard, but times change.
It's one of those things isn't it. From a passenger point of view I doubt it makes much difference. I catch a mixture of 8 carriage DOO services and 12 carriage guard services. Only difference for me is the guard does an announcement of where the train stops. of course personally I know not to try and run to get a train at the last minute and get stuck in the door.
It's one of those things isn't it. From a passenger point of view I doubt it makes much difference. I catch a mixture of 8 carriage DOO services and 12 carriage guard services. Only difference for me is the guard does an announcement of where the train stops. of course personally I know not to try and run to get a train at the last minute and get stuck in the door.
notadriver
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Driver to Twitter team is a drop in pay and rank isn't it ?
SWTs inner suburban non commercial guards, not much else these days
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chris11256
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c2c's twitter team do it in addition to their main role. Hence why they'll sometimes reply to tweets at 01:00! To quote 'it got tacked on, although I don't mind doing it'
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notadriver
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I can't see a productive driver doing extra hours on a Twitter team. It simply wouldn't be cost effective.
So you asked on a public forum a representative of a TOC for their view on DOO and are actually considering taking their response as a drivers response?!!!!
I'd ignore anything they said. The 'times change' bit is certainly a company line and not a true representation of what the drivers at that TOC actually think.
Sadly you asked a publicly viewable question to someone who's response will mots definitely be monitored by management. And you seriously think there would be an ounce of credibility to the answer?! You may as well ask a Tory politician for their view of the RMT and suggest it represents the view of all rail staff.
chris11256
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I accept that there's the chance of getting a simply corporate answer. However had this been the case I would have expected an answer which massively praised DOO
I see nothing wrong with someone(who at least claims to be a former driver) saying they'd prefer having a guard. So basically I should ignore this and assume that all c2c drivers love DOO? I have no issue if they do, it'd just surprise me.
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I'm suggesting that most drivers on any line, given the choice, would prefer to have a guard on board.
87015
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Bear in mind c2c are about to extend DOO to 12-car workings...
chris11256
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Really? At this stage I don't think any c2c station actually has the CCTV or mirrors for 12 carriage DOO.
Would they not do what FCC did when the 12 cars were introduced on new platforms at arlesey, Biggleswade and sandy by providing platform staff to dispatch trains during the peak hours when 12 car trains run?
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