Midland Mainline (Bedford to St. Pancras) Speed Limit Knowledge

[richa2002]

I'm currently building the MML, well, as much of Bedford to St. Pancras that I can put up with ,for Rail Simulator and I was wondering if anyone here has any knowledge of the speed limits between Bedford and St. Pancras on the Midland Mainline? Thanks if you can help.

 

[Guinness]

I stumbled across a .pdf on Network Rail website a few months ago with a good description of gradients and speed limits along the MML, although IIRC it was only for the Luton - St. Pancras section.

I'll try and find it again.

 

[class 313]

I'm currently building the MML, well, as much of Bedford to St. Pancras that I can put up with ,for Rail Simulator and I was wondering if anyone here has any knowledge of the speed limits between Bedford and St. Pancras on the Midland Mainline? Thanks if you can help.

Ill take a pen and paper for St Albans - St Pancras on Sunday

 

[richa2002]

I stumbled across a .pdf on Network Rail website a few months ago with a good description of gradients and speed limits along the MML, although IIRC it was only for the Luton - St. Pancras section.

I'll try and find it again.

If you could find it again Chaz that would be great. Have attempted to search the Network Rail sit but have yet to find anything.

 

[D306]

I'm sure if you ask Westocaster he can help you, after all, he is a trainee driver on the FCC lines

 

[class 313]

I'm sure if you ask Westocaster he can help you, after all, he is a trainee driver on the FCC lines

Have you asked his permission to blurt private details out like that?

 

[The Planner]

If you can wait until Monday, I can get them out of the sectional appendix.

 

[richa2002]

That would be perfect if you don't mind. Thanks very much. *Gets back to laying the trackwork for Luton*.

 

[Metroland]

Try and get hold of a sectional appendix Richard, it contains linepseeds and route information of all routes, spilt into different regions. You can get them off Ebay sometimes or direct from

http://www.willsonshop.com/subcategory.asp?sid=5

 

[richa2002]

Unfortunately I can't seem to find what I'm looking for. I would be really grateful if you could scan some things in from the sectional appendix then 'The Planner'.

 

[The Planner]

Im not scanning in the appendix, but I will try and collate some details of the speed changes. They do jump about a bit on the MML.

 

[richa2002]

Ah okay sure, thanks.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I made this up when I was training for Thameslink (FCC)

It doesn't cover the fast lines at Bedford or the approach lines into St Pancras

 

[richa2002]

Wow, that's excellent, thanks very much. I have one or two queries though. On the Down Fast at Harpenden, I do believe the limit is 110mph (shown on the speed limit post after the Up Fast to Down Fast crossover) but it's displayed as 105mph on your diagram. Also, where does the speed fall to 100mph on the Up Fast after Harpenden as I believe that's also 110mph for a mile or two after Harpenden.

Thanks if you can answer these.

Also, 'The Planner', if you had started to work on collating speed limit details, I would still appreciate them to complement the diagram above; especially the missing gaps on the approaches to St. Pancras and the fast lines at Bedford

Once again, thanks very much to you all!

 

[westcoaster]

100 is after chiltern green heading north, speed at the cross over is 110

 

[richa2002]

[deleted]

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Wow, that's excellent, thanks very much. I have one or two queries though. On the Down Fast at Harpenden, I do believe the limit is 110mph (shown on the speed limit post after the Up Fast to Down Fast crossover) but it's displayed as 105mph on your diagram. Also, where does the speed fall to 100mph on the Up Fast after Harpenden as I believe that's also 110mph for a mile or two after Harpenden.

Thanks if you can answer these....

I did that about 4 years ago as an exercise to see if I could remember the speeds, before my passing out exam, and I no longer have the official maps for the route to check it now. The 105 at Harpenden on the down fast should say 110. The drop to 100 on the Up fast is on the approach to St Albans, that bit isn't too clear sorry.

Of note, but which may no longer be in place, in the Clerkenwell tunnel No.3 a 15mph perminent speed restriction was put in place on the down line (north bound) until the end of Kings Cross T/Link station a few weeks before Kings Cross tunnel was shut for the nine month engineering posession for the CTRL, that caught a few drivers out!!!! During those works Kings Cross T/link was the route terminus from the south. This occured after my drawing was compiled.

 

[richa2002]

Ah okay, it makes sense now thanks.

 

[xc170]

you probobly already know this but the maximum speed limit on the MMlL as far as i know is 110mph

 

[richa2002]

Yeah I did but thanks anyway.

 

[richa2002]

Hello

Just another question for any drivers who know the road around Bedford. I've attached a screenshot below of the southbound signal gantry north of Bedford South Junction in Rail Simulator. Are the signals set up correctly? In my Drivers Eye View video, I can just make out that maybe the Down Slow (Bi-directional) doesn't have the right-hand feather, is the interpretation below correct or does the Bi-directional down slow only have one feather therefore no access to the fast lines?

 

[westcoaster]

the middle signal wh492 only has a left hand feather other than that it is correct

 

[richa2002]

Thanks very much! So the feather is for the route onto the Up Slow, what does a straight green light with no feather mean? Route onto the Up Fast?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Definately. When there is no obvious straight route the fastest line is considered the straight route, should both be of equal speed a route indicator should be provided for each route......If memory serves......

 

[Tomnick]

From Module S1:

2.3 Junction indicators
Junction indicators are provided to show that a train is being
signalled to a route to the left or right of the straight route.
A junction indicator:
• is normally located above the signal, and
• will display a line of white lights when a proceed aspect is
displayed.
When the straight route is obvious, there is no junction indicator
provided for this route.
Where there is no obvious straight route, a junction indicator will
be provided for all signalled routes.
Where the straight route is not the highest-speed route, the
junction indicator will apply to the lower-speed route.
Where the diverging routes ahead are both of equal speed, a
junction indicator will be provided for each route.

Since the 'straight route' (from the Down Slow) is straight ahead onto the Down Slow (which obviously isn't a signalled move), then the above would suggest that a feather would be required for each route (as per your screenshot). I'm sure this installation would pre-date that requirement though - is the connection from the Down Slow to the Up Fast higher speed than that from the Down Slow to the Up Slow? That'd certainly go some way to explaining why the move to the Up Fast has been considered that 'straight route' in this case.

 

[westcoaster]

40mph to the slow 50 mph to the fast

 

[richa2002]

Thanks for that everyone. Sorted that one out for now .

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Rail Express this month says HSTS will take over the STP-Nottinghams in December with Meridians on the STP-Sheffields.

Also, the term 'Straight' is loosely worded. The straight route into Tulse Hill from Herne Hill is actually the most curved with a No.1 indicator provided for the 'diverging route'

The signal is just of the top of the curved line on this map

 

[1D53]

I managed to track it on my gps last night, will see if when I upload it can be understood!

 

[westcoaster]

Rail Express this month says HSTS will take over the STP-Nottinghams in December with Meridians on the STP-Sheffields.

Also, the term 'Straight' is loosely worded. The straight route into Tulse Hill from Herne Hill is actually the most curved with a No.1 indicator provided for the 'diverging route'

The signal is just of the top of the curved line on this map

the straight route into T-h is the lower speed of the two (15mph), but is actually the diverging route that has a No.4 indicator that is the higher speed crossover (20 mph)