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Who could take over from Ed Miliband?

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DarloRich

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The question is whether Corbyn can appeal to those 900 people.

I don't think so, sadly. I really want him to be able to but i don't think he can. Obviously if elected i will support him as that is what loyalty is all about.

As an aside: How in the hell did people in Morley vote Tory - that should be a "weigh your vote" consistency for Labour! The last non Labour MP was in 1933 and is only the 2nd Tory in the history of the constituency - the shame.

I know Balls was unpopular but.............................

(PS good work lumping Elmet in with Rothwell to dilute the labour vote ;) )
 
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Bevan Price

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And therein is the issue - Corbyn plays well with the "choir" but wont attract the congregation and will be mercilessly destroyed/ridiculed by the Sun/Mail/Telegraph/Express/Times axis.

r

And sadly rather too many people are willing to believe as "truth" any propaganda published by the press.
 

Tracked

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As an aside: How in the hell did people in Morley vote Tory - that should be a "weigh your vote" consistency for Labour! The last non Labour MP was in 1933 and is only the 2nd Tory in the history of the constituency - the shame.

I know Balls was unpopular but.............................

I think it was down to their grassroots campaign in the area being effective at sweeping up undecideds, etc, while Balls was out doing the national campaign. At least, that's what I remember being said at the time.

Also, did any paper run with "Balls Out in Morley"? :lol:
 

Busaholic

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'' Dear Brother or Sister,

In enclosing your ballot paper for election of a new leader of our great party, the Labour Party, I've been asked to pen a few words so you can better optimise your choice for the good of this wonderful country of ours, and ensure there will be no return to the dark old days prior to New Labour when, for the information of those of you too young or stupid to remember, the skies fell in upon themselves and those dark satanic mills abounded.
Due to an unfortunate clerical error, the name of Corbyn,J. has inadvertently crept onto the ballot paper. Obviously, this was never intended, least of all by the man himself, and, as it is too late to expunge it, I would implore you to utterly ignore it. A vote for him would return us to those days where rats roamed the streets and pestilence was not only abroad, but right here in this country. As Brother Blair has rightly observed, all Hell and Damnation would be visited upon us should the unthinkable happen, and he should know! Brother Blair incidentally broke his monastic silence especially to warn us of this impending catastrophe, and he has only charged us a special low rate of £100.000 plus CAT (Cherie Added Tax) to impart his message.
Don't forget, a vote for Corbyn now will only bring a minus vote at the next General Election as, not only will all votes for a Corbyn-led party be given to the Tories but they'll count double for the Tories thanks to a special law being passed by Prime Minister Johnson just prior to that election.
So, vote now for Burnham, Cooper and Kendall - yes, you'll find you can vote for all of them simultaneously and, let's face it, you can't tell the difference between them, can you?!''
 

yorksrob

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Indeed. Read the blood curdling warnings in The Times of how Mr Corbyn's policies on public ownership of public services such as utilities will automatically turn the country into Venezuela, or at the very least, North Korea, in spite of the fact that European countries have managed to maintain mixed economies for decades, without any danger of becoming Venezuela or North Korea. The status quo of re-heated Thatcherism must be maintained at all costs!!
 

northwichcat

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Indeed. Read the blood curdling warnings in The Times of how Mr Corbyn's policies on public ownership of public services such as utilities will automatically turn the country into Venezuela, or at the very least, North Korea, in spite of the fact that European countries have managed to maintain mixed economies for decades, without any danger of becoming Venezuela or North Korea. The status quo of re-heated Thatcherism must be maintained at all costs!!

Question is how far is Corbyn going to go. Andy Burnham's plan for railway nationalisation seems to allow for private companies to operate alongside the national operator (as is the case in Germany) so Burnham as PM probably would be happy to allow Grand Central and Hull Trains to continue. However, would Corbyn want those services in public ownership if they continue?
 

yorksrob

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Question is how far is Corbyn going to go. Andy Burnham's plan for railway nationalisation seems to allow for private companies to operate alongside the national operator (as is the case in Germany) so Burnham as PM probably would be happy to allow Grand Central and Hull Trains to continue. However, would Corbyn want those services in public ownership if they continue?

An interesting question worth asking.

Without him saying in detail what he thinks on the issue, it's difficult to tell (not being a close follower of internal labour politics).

Personally I would be happy to keep them open, as in the German model. I feel that there's room to move away from the extreme market oriented status quo whilst maintaining an element of pragmatism.
 

ainsworth74

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Isn't open access an EU requirement? One of the reasons why they want everyone to separate wheel and rail I thought?
 

northwichcat

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Isn't open access an EU requirement?

I'm not sure.

There is a chance if Corbyn is PM in 2020 that the previous Conservative government will have arranged an exit from the EU.

Also isn't it permitted for a state owned operator to buy another operator who run open access services?
 

St Rollox

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Well done to Kezia Dugdale on becoming the new leader of the Scottish Labour Party.
Kezia is of course not a supporter of Jeremy Corbyn so that might be fun.
Nominations for the next Scottish leader will be out after the Scottish elections next May.
 

me123

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Funny but, sadly, true. Labour have next to no chance in Scotland in May, and Kezia Dugdale has proven herself to be at least as useless just about the rest of the Labour contingent North of the border (perhaps not excluding the best of the worst, Iain Gray - I'll just take a moment to, once again, share possibly my favourite youtube video of this tosser.

[youtube]LfQmg8VSj0E[/youtube]

"I've been in Rwanda just after the genocide, I've walked the killing fields of Cambodia". :lol:

Note that the protesters were against Tory cuts - i.e. on his side.

If the polls are to be believed (and they've been remarkably reliable in Scotland as of late), the SNP will actually gain seats in May to extend their majority. Ms Dugdale will, through no fault of her own, lead her party to another crashing defeat. And she'll leave.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Kezia is of course not a supporter of Jeremy Corbyn so that might be fun.

It will be an interesting time. A lot of people North of the border feel that Scottish Labour need to go their own way in order to win support up here. Corbyn disagrees. So we'll have potentially two leaders who don't see eye to eye forced to work ever closer together pulling apart the remains of the Labour party's cadaver.

Labour don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting anywhere for the foreseeable future.
 
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devon_metro

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I'm not sure.

There is a chance if Corbyn is PM in 2020 that the previous Conservative government will have arranged an exit from the EU.

Also isn't it permitted for a state owned operator to buy another operator who run open access services?

There is no chance that Jeremy Corbyn would ever become prime minister. I think the rise of UKIP particularly in the traditionally Labour north demonstrates that left wing politics has no place in the UK.
 

St Rollox

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Jeremy Corbyn spoke in Glasgow last night to 800 supporters.
Along side him was Neil Findlay who fought Jim Murphy for the leadership last time round.
Findlay's a possible goer next year for leader,if he can hold his seat or be high enough on the party list at the second vote.
 

matt_world2004

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Question is how far is Corbyn going to go. Andy Burnham's plan for railway nationalisation seems to allow for private companies to operate alongside the national operator (as is the case in Germany) so Burnham as PM probably would be happy to allow Grand Central and Hull Trains to continue. However, would Corbyn want those services in public ownership if they continue?

Corbyn would have no choice under European rules.
 

TheKnightWho

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There is no chance that Jeremy Corbyn would ever become prime minister. I think the rise of UKIP particularly in the traditionally Labour north demonstrates that left wing politics has no place in the UK.

Simplifying things down to the left/right spectrum when looking at why UKIP did well just doesn't work. Many people were attracted by economically left-wing sentiments in UKIP.

Those people were disaffected from Labour *because* of their move to the centre on economic grounds, and their move to the left on social ones. Exactly what UKIP stands against.
 
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yorksrob

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It will be an interesting time. A lot of people North of the border feel that Scottish Labour need to go their own way in order to win support up here. Corbyn disagrees. So we'll have potentially two leaders who don't see eye to eye forced to work ever closer together pulling apart the remains of the Labour party's cadaver.

Labour don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting anywhere for the foreseeable future.

Well, there's no way of squaring that particular circle. Whatever policy we have in England won't be suitable north of the border so we'll have to say cheerio.
 

northwichcat

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There is no chance that Jeremy Corbyn would ever become prime minister. I think the rise of UKIP particularly in the traditionally Labour north demonstrates that left wing politics has no place in the UK.

A lot of the UKIP support seems to be from older voters who agree with Farage that there's too many Eastern European people coming to Britain. If the UK exits the EU or agrees a deal to limit immigration, the UKIP support will disappear as long as the other parties get their act together.

At the last election the right aligned parties (Conservatives, UKIP and DUP) got 15.3 million votes. The left aligned parties (Labour, SNP, Plaid Cymru and Greens) got 12.1 million votes. If you count the Lib Dems as a centre-left party then there wasn't a lot of difference between the number of votes for left aligned and right aligned parties.
 

Tetchytyke

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I think the rise of UKIP particularly in the traditionally Labour north demonstrates that left wing politics has no place in the UK.

What rise of UKIP? UKIP haven't come close in a national election in the north. Their lical votes have come directly from people who abandoned the BNP in places like Burnley and Halifax. Some are racists but mostly they're voting in anger, and will side with anyone who manages to sell them a solution. Corbyn's just as likely to do that as anyone.
 

northwichcat

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What rise of UKIP? UKIP haven't come close in a national election in the north. Their lical votes have come directly from people who abandoned the BNP in places like Burnley and Halifax. Some are racists but mostly they're voting in anger, and will side with anyone who manages to sell them a solution. Corbyn's just as likely to do that as anyone.

You could argue more UKIP support is something that won't last. It wasn't all that long ago the BNP gained a lot of support in the North following racial tensions, which included Nick Griffin getting elected as a MEP. However, a few years later the racial tensions have been forgotten about and the issue is apparently 'all these Eastern Europeans coming over' which resulted in UKIP gaining support.
 
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Tetchytyke

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The racial tensions haven't gone; the people who were voting BNP are now voting UKIP, but with the same motivations.

UKIP are an improvement on the BNP, but I'd definitely agree they're not a long term political movement. They're a protest vote.
 

DynamicSpirit

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A by-election isn't a national election

Sorry to be pedantic but: Heywood and Middleton in the subsequent general election (which arguably was part of a national election):

Labour..........20,926
UKIP.............15,627


That looks to me close enough that I'd be somewhat concerned if I was the Labour MP there. Although I'm inclined to agree with you that UKIP look more like a short term protest vote.
 

northwichcat

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Sorry to be pedantic but: Heywood and Middleton in the subsequent general election (which arguably was part of a national election):

Labour..........20,926
UKIP.............15,627


That looks to me close enough that I'd be somewhat concerned if I was the Labour MP there. Although I'm inclined to agree with you that UKIP look more like a short term protest vote.

Why would you be concerned if you were the Labour MP? That was the highest number of Labour votes for that constituency since 2001. The Conservatives lost 3,000 votes in Heywood & Middleton between the 2010 and 2015 elections, the Lib Dems lost 8,000 while the BNP got 3,200 votes in 2010 and didn't put a candidate forward in 2015. While I imagine it's likely some Labour voters have defected to UKIP, a greater number of voters have defected to Labour.
 

ainsworth74

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Also surely the only reason that they haven't had success at a national election (beyond one MP) is down to FPTP? They were third in the popular vote after all.
 

northwichcat

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Also surely the only reason that they haven't had success at a national election (beyond one MP) is down to FPTP? They were third in the popular vote after all.

They got 12.6% of votes at the last election. That might be UKIP's best ever result at a general election but it's a very low share for the 3rd most popular party. In 2010 the Lib Dems got 23% of the vote to come third and while the Lib Dems only had around 18% of the vote share in the 90s, historically the Liberal party were getting around 25% of votes at general elections.

If UKIP had got a vote share of around 26% like they did in the European elections, then maybe they could have got a decent number of MPs even with FPTP. I think the issue UKIP face is many people still see them as a one policy party - which is OK for a European election when that issue is Europe but not for a General Election.
 

meridian2

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The racial tensions haven't gone; the people who were voting BNP are now voting UKIP, but with the same motivations.

UKIP are an improvement on the BNP, but I'd definitely agree they're not a long term political movement. They're a protest vote.

Nigel Farage isn't a 'long term political movement';he basically ousted himself in the election with his ridiculous statements, especially regarding HIV cases.

UKIP themselves have policies that do chime with a large number of people, again I cite consensus as evidence, but this easily gets overlooked by an out-of-date electoral system.
 

ainsworth74

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They got 12.6% of votes at the last election. That might be UKIP's best ever result at a general election but it's a very low share for the 3rd most popular party. In 2010 the Lib Dems got 23% of the vote to come third and while the Lib Dems only had around 18% of the vote share in the 90s, historically the Liberal party were getting around 25% of votes at general elections.

If UKIP had got a vote share of around 26% like they did in the European elections, then maybe they could have got a decent number of MPs even with FPTP. I think the issue UKIP face is many people still see them as a one policy party - which is OK for a European election when that issue is Europe but not for a General Election.

Hmm very true but still it seems a bit harsh to say they failed nationally (not that I'm a UKIP supporter I hasten to add!) when they were third even though they had a lower voter share than is traditional. But, of course, that might be linked to the slow rise of the small parties over the last couple of elections.
 

TheKnightWho

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Nigel Farage isn't a 'long term political movement';he basically ousted himself in the election with his ridiculous statements, especially regarding HIV cases.

UKIP themselves have policies that do chime with a large number of people, again I cite consensus as evidence, but this easily gets overlooked by an out-of-date electoral system.

I think that the death knell was his fake resignation, and I think the fact that the party relies on him so heavily means that UKIP won't do so well next time around.

UKIP's policies may chime with a lot of people, but they also turn off a huge amount as well. UKIP should be glad that AV didn't pass, as being bottom-preferenced by a lot of people would make their uphill struggle even harder.
 
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