East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

[The Planner]

You won't see any new signals on the Gavray Jn - Claydon bit yet as there are only about 2 or 3 going in as part of this phase. Phase 2 still isn't out of GRIP 3 yet so it won't be part of that either.

 

[nuneatonmark]

For a project where most of the route is still intact, why is it taking so long to get it re-opened? What's the comparison like time-wise between the East-West re-opening and the Borders re-opening?

 

[DarloRich]

For a project where most of the route is still intact, why is it taking so long to get it re-opened? What's the comparison like time-wise between the East-West re-opening and the Borders re-opening?

the route isn't mainly intact! Several miles are missing, there is some subsidence and what is left needs to be completely replaced and signalling installed. I will agree that the "corridor" IS mainly intact, the infrastructure is not.

That is before we consider that work hasn't actually started on the true E-W section yet and wont for a while as the project is still at GRIP 3!

 

[Blamethrower]

I honestly can't see it happening past Bedford. I expect that EWR will connect with a bus service to Cambridge via the guided busway and of course, the Black Cat roundabout!

Seriously, where, outside of London and in England would they build a new railway, re-configure an entire mainline station including roads and parking and build a new double-track permanent way for about 30 miles with connections to all mainlines it crosses?

It's a shame but it just seems beyond the will of all authorities to collaborate and build an integrated transport solution.

So yes, a nice guided bus will fill the central section, I guarantee it (well not entirely)

 

[DarloRich]

So yes, a nice guided bus will fill the central section, I guarantee it (well not entirely)

surely the Marston Vale line forms the central part

 

[Alfie1014]

Those piles don't look substantial enough for OLE, I think they are more likely to be part of noise mitigation measures for nearby housing as part of the Chiltern works required beacuse of the dramatic increase in services when they start later this year.

 

[meridian2]

The plan is to turn it into an LGV-style route complete with Duplexes, Reseaus, and Atlantiques.

All a massive pipe-dream.

 

[DarloRich]

The plan is to turn it into an LGV-style route complete with Duplexes, Reseaus, and Atlantiques.

All a massive pipe-dream.

will they call at Fenny Stratford and offer a direct service to MK? If so get them built

 

[Chris125]

Those piles don't look substantial enough for OLE, I think they are more likely to be part of noise mitigation measures for nearby housing as part of the Chiltern works required beacuse of the dramatic increase in services when they start later this year.

I don't think they look any less substantial than the piles used elsewhere, they certainly have the same mounting holes and they are being placed the distance from the track and each other that you'd expect for electrification.

 

[jimm]

I don't think they look any less substantial than the piles used elsewhere, they certainly have the same mounting holes and they are being placed the distance from the track and each other that you'd expect for electrification.

No they're not, see the GWML photo I linked to in post 1172 here http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=73497&page=79 showing what the catenary support piles look like with a baseplate attached and part-driven into the ground.

They are most likely something signalling-related as according to the East West Collaboration website they are doing signalling work in Bicester at the moment.

http://www.bicestertooxfordcollabor...vel-crossing-10-august-14-september-2015.html

 

[Blamethrower]

surely the Marston Vale line forms the central part

If I remember correctly that's the western section according to ewr, central Bedford to Cambridge, eastern Cambridge to the ports/Norwich

 

[Chris125]

No they're not, see the GWML photo I linked to in post 1172 here http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=73497&page=79 showing what the catenary support piles look like with a baseplate attached and part-driven into the ground.

The piles at Bicester look very similar to those shown being tested with the HOPS here and sticking out of the ground like this.

 

[richieb1971]

I think its quite obvious that intent to finish the project is there. Its just that some people want the project yesterday and the planners are trickle feeding through the whole thing.

 

[jimm]

The piles at Bicester look very similar to those shown being tested with the HOPS here and sticking out of the ground like this.

Aprt from being round, no, they don't, they are of a much smaller diameter than those GWML piles, which are the same type as the ones in the photo I linked to, and the one to the north of line next to the junction points at Bicester is placed too close to the track for a catenary mast - hence my suspicion that they are something to do with the signalling installation work now in progress in the area.

 

[DarloRich]

If I remember correctly that's the western section according to ewr, central Bedford to Cambridge, eastern Cambridge to the ports/Norwich

eh? surely:
Claydon - Bletchley = West

Blethcley - Bedford = Centre

Bedford - Cambridge = East
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think its quite obvious that intent to finish the project is there. Its just that some people want the project yesterday and the planners are trickle feeding through the whole thing.

not sure what you are on about here tbh

 

[swt_passenger]

eh? surely:
Claydon - Bletchley = West

Blethcley - Bedford = Centre

Bedford - Cambridge = East

No he was right. The western section does include all the way to Bedford, i.e. the approved CP5 scheme.

The recent thread discussing the 'central section' is all about options to get from Bedford to Cambridge.

The eastern section is to do with Cambridge to Norwich, and further.

All explained on the EWR website, e.g. here: http://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/2015...corridors-for-east-west-rail-central-section/

 

[DarloRich]

No he was right. The western section does include all the way to Bedford, i.e. the approved CP5 scheme.

The recent thread discussing the 'central section' is all about options to get from Bedford to Cambridge.

The eastern section is to do with Cambridge to Norwich, and further.

All explained on the EWR website, e.g. here: http://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/2015...corridors-for-east-west-rail-central-section/

well they are wrong aren't they

 

[richieb1971]

Darlo,

The people that are upset are upset because no work seems to be going on at the moment. If people don't see momentum they fear the project is cancelled. I for one am not over the moon that these projects are done 1% at a time. It takes too long, screams lack of funding and it doesn't help delays are announced. If I were in control of any project it wouldn't be done in such ways.

 

[Chris125]

Aprt from being round, no, they don't, they are of a much smaller diameter than those GWML piles, which are the same type as the ones in the photo I linked to, and the one to the north of line next to the junction points at Bicester is placed too close to the track for a catenary mast - hence my suspicion that they are something to do with the signalling installation work now in progress in the area.

Why do they have to be the same width as those on the GWML? This is 100mph double track and will presumably be electrified in the same manner as the schemes in Scotland and the North West. With at least another 45 sitting by the chord hopefully all will become clear soon...

 

[swt_passenger]

Darlo,

The people that are upset are upset because no work seems to be going on at the moment. If people don't see momentum they fear the project is cancelled. I for one am not over the moon that these projects are done 1% at a time. It takes too long, screams lack of funding and it doesn't help delays are announced. If I were in control of any project it wouldn't be done in such ways.

These were the milestones announced at the seat of CP5, in March 2014:

East West Rail Phase 2
Milestone / Description / Date / Status
GRIP 2 completion / Feasibility complete / June 2014 / Indicator
GRIP 3 completion / Option selection / November 2015 / Regulated Output
GRIP 4 completion / Single option scope defined / June 2016 / Indicative
GRIP 6 start / Start on site / August 2017* / Indicative
GRIP 6 completion / Infrastructure ready for use / March 2019 / Indicative

So why the surprise at lack of physical work? After Grip 3 is complete they still have to apply for a TWA Order, don't they?

 

[Philip Phlopp]

These were the milestones announced at the seat of CP5, in March 2014:

East West Rail Phase 2
Milestone / Description / Date / Status
GRIP 2 completion / Feasibility complete / June 2014 / Indicator
GRIP 3 completion / Option selection / November 2015 / Regulated Output
GRIP 4 completion / Single option scope defined / June 2016 / Indicative
GRIP 6 start / Start on site / August 2017* / Indicative
GRIP 6 completion / Infrastructure ready for use / March 2019 / Indicative

So why the surprise at lack of physical work? After Grip 3 is complete they still have to apply for a TWA Order, don't they?

There's also a whisper that GRIP 6 start may be delayed depending on what assets, specifically electrification assets, are still tied up on other works that are over running or late in starting.

It's going to be interesting and probably a bit infuriating to see Peter Hendy's report into what's going to be do-able in CP5 and what's going to be moved into CP6 and CP7 instead.

 

[The Planner]

Also trying to tie it into Hs2 works around Calvert/Quainton too.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's going to be interesting and probably a bit infuriating to see Peter Hendy's report into what's going to be do-able in CP5 and what's going to be moved into CP6 and CP7 instead.

For instance, further delaying TP electrification while keeping the East West dates would not go down well in the north.
TP was authorised first, and is further ahead in the GRIP timetable.

 

[DarloRich]

For instance, further delaying TP electrification while keeping the East West dates would not go down well in the north.
TP was authorised first, and is further ahead in the GRIP timetable.

it is easy just to reassign some of the GW electrification resources to E-W though isn't it? All the support infrastructure is in place ( logistics/warehousing/staff competencies etc) and it almost becomes an extension of that project.

but the key issue is the lack of skilled people in the electrification and signalling areas. That is the problem and it answers this point;

Darlo,

The people that are upset are upset because no work seems to be going on at the moment. If people don't see momentum they fear the project is cancelled. I for one am not over the moon that these projects are done 1% at a time. It takes too long, screams lack of funding and it doesn't help delays are announced. If I were in control of any project it wouldn't be done in such ways.

that there might not be enough capacity in the supply chain and manpower pool to undertake two projects simultaneously.

As to the above i am still not sure quite how you would hope to deliver on your plans for doing things quicker. If you can rustle up enough skilled labour you would be sitting on a gold mine! I am not sure you really understand the issues tbh

 

[Class 170101]

Remember East West Railway is for the most part an un-opened / under used railway currently. One therefore wonders would it be possible to get some works done during the day if assets and electrification teams are spare?

 

[swt_passenger]

Remember East West Railway is for the most part an un-opened / under used railway currently. One therefore wonders would it be possible to get some works done during the day if assets and electrification teams are spare?

No, because they have to design the project first...

 

[DarloRich]

Remember East West Railway is for the most part an un-opened / under used railway currently. One therefore wonders would it be possible to get some works done during the day if assets and electrification teams are spare?

The issue is there isn't any slack in the manpower or equipment pool and i don't think it is realistic to try to utilse the men and equipment on geographically diverse sites.

that and the need for an agreed design........

 

[aylesbury]

Oxford City council has only just approved Chilterns two platforms at Oxford station after two years because of opposition by residents worried by a point at the rear of their gardens.The whole project has been held up by one vindictive individual who did not even live in the area so but for him everything would be up and running now,so patience is required it will happen and will be an improved version.The line from Risboro to Aylesbury will have a dynamic loop installed and be capable of 100mph as will be the line north of Aylesbury and double track as well.So roll on 2019 cant wait for new journey options.

 

[carriageline]

Remember East West Railway is for the most part an un-opened / under used railway currently. One therefore wonders would it be possible to get some works done during the day if assets and electrification teams are spare?

Not entirely sure what you mean, but if you mean pinch the teams from other projects during the day, they won't be spare, as they will be recovering from working the night before

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Not entirely sure what you mean, but if you mean pinch the teams from other projects during the day, they won't be spare, as they will be recovering from working the night before

The HOPS factory train is refuelled, serviced (it still needs exams and maintenance) and re-loaded/re-stocked with equipment for the next night's work. It's not 'spare' during the day in any meaningful way.

What we normally see with totally new railway lines under construction is that the electrification piles are put in when the trackbed is constructed, masts will appear just before or just after the ballast and sleepers, but the small part steelwork and wiring will be done with road rail vehicles or a wiring train, so there's not a huge amount that can be done without the usual road/rail equipment.