Has the Periphery of the Rail Network been Neglected?

[Envoy]

I travelled on the 'Pembroke Coast Express' HST to Tenby the other day. As soon as we came onto the south Pembrokeshire branch line at Whitland, we were on the jointed rail - with wooden sleepers. (Bushes were practically hitting the train in places). So, that must mean that this track has been in place since the days of steam? Presumably it must be costly to maintain and mean that lower speeds are allowed compared to it being long welded rail. Surely, even though such lines are not the major routes, by this day and age such tracks should have been renewed?

 

[NSEFAN]

The track may well have been renewed, just not to continuously welded rail. The Pembroke branch doesn't need trains to go faster so it may well have been cheaper just to keep it as is.

 

[TheNewNo2]

To answer the question of the title, yes, it most certainly has. RAIL has been going on about Gainsborough stations recently - the Brigg line stations only have 4 trains per week, but even the more "main line" station is in atrocious condition.

A lot of money goes into the main lines, and rightly so, but once you get out into the sticks things swiftly go bad.

That said, it may make more economic sense to continue with old sleepers and track than to upgrade.

 

[Senex]

To answer the question of the title, yes, it most certainly has. RAIL has been going on about Gainsborough stations recently - the Brigg line stations only have 4 trains per week, but even the more "main line" station is in atrocious condition.

A lot of money goes into the main lines, and rightly so, but once you get out into the sticks things swiftly go bad.

That said, it may make more economic sense to continue with old sleepers and track than to upgrade.

Agree to all of that. But at some stage you do have to decide that the size and shape of a national railway system is and how far to the periphery its lines should extend. Does a properly integrated road service with appropriate vehicles not meet the transport requirement better at some point?

 

[telstarbox]

That's a slippery slope. It's then easier to do away with the road service on the grounds of low demand.

 

[najaB]

...we were on the jointed rail - with wooden sleepers. (Bushes were practically hitting the train in places). So, that must mean that this track has been in place since the days of steam?

Nope. New jointed track gets installed all the time. You can't make the assumption that jointed means old.

 

[yorksrob]

Agree to all of that. But at some stage you do have to decide that the size and shape of a national railway system is and how far to the periphery its lines should extend. Does a properly integrated road service with appropriate vehicles not meet the transport requirement better at some point?

In a word, no.

We did that and went too far. Road connections will always be a hostage to fortune not of the railways making.

It hasn't all been bad news on the periphery either. The renewal of the viaduct at Arnside and the new passing loop on the Falmouth branch are just two examples of investment in the regional railway in recent years.

 

[Chris125]

It could be worse - a fair proportion of Island Line's jointed track must date from at least electrification in the 60s and some of the bullhead sections may well date from the steam era. The majority is still sat in shingle ballast!

 

[Envoy]

Many thanks to all of you who have responded thus far. I forgot to say that Tenby station is one of those solid stone Victorian jobs. Amazingly - for the major tourist resort in Pembrokeshire, the buildings are boarded up and no toilet facilities exist. What a contrast to the town - which appears to be thriving with all the buildings painted in glorious colours. You would think that perhaps the Pembrokehire Coast National Park could have office space in the Victorian buildings rent free providing they sell rail tickets.

I did not go down the line to Pembroke Dock - which is the terminal for Irish Ferries services. When the Pembroke Coast Express arrived in Tenby, a 150 2 coach sprinter came up the line from Pembroke - and it was absolutely packed. Likewise, whilst waiting for my HST to convey me back east, a 2 coach 158 arrived from Swansea - again packed. A substantial number of people remained on or boarded the 158 for the journey down to Pembroke.
I would have thought that this line really needs an hourly service rather than one train every other hour - at least in summer.

http://www.visitpembrokeshire.com/explore-pembrokeshire/towns-and-villages/tenby-and-penally/

 

[Bald Rick]

Head down there on a Wednesday in February and it's a rather different story.

Indeed on my most recent summer Saturday trip on the line it wasn't overly crowded.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

One the basis of a 2 hourly service - formed of a 1/2 car train - no freight (the odd HST) - bullhead track will last for eons. On good knowledge - the not so far away Central Wales in theory ought to have around 4 or so miles of track relaid a year - but due to careful and targetted maintenance (sleeper replacement on a need to basis) - has had none of this done and the line is very much fit for purpose a secondary lightly trafficked route. (though some work on structures has been done) - it was benchmarked some years ago and shown to very cost effective on an engineering basis.


No excuse though for not cutting back vegetation

 

[muddythefish]

Agree to all of that. But at some stage you do have to decide that the size and shape of a national railway system is and how far to the periphery its lines should extend. Does a properly integrated road service with appropriate vehicles not meet the transport requirement better at some point?

In a nutshell, no. Are you related to the dreaded doctor ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

One the basis of a 2 hourly service - formed of a 1/2 car train - no freight (the odd HST) - bullhead track will last for eons. On good knowledge - the not so far away Central Wales in theory ought to have around 4 or so miles of track relaid a year - but due to careful and targetted maintenance (sleeper replacement on a need to basis) - has had none of this done and the line is very much fit for purpose a secondary lightly trafficked route. (though some work on structures has been done) - it was benchmarked some years ago and shown to very cost effective on an engineering basis.


No excuse though for not cutting back vegetation

Correct, just because the track does not need to be renewed does not mean the line has to be left with little or no maintenance at all. Tree growth needs to be lopped back every year.

 

[Ash Bridge]

One the basis of a 2 hourly service - formed of a 1/2 car train - no freight (the odd HST) - bullhead track will last for eons. On good knowledge - the not so far away Central Wales in theory ought to have around 4 or so miles of track relaid a year - but due to careful and targetted maintenance (sleeper replacement on a need to basis) - has had none of this done and the line is very much fit for purpose a secondary lightly trafficked route. (though some work on structures has been done) - it was benchmarked some years ago and shown to very cost effective on an engineering basis.


No excuse though for not cutting back vegetation

Similar thing for the Cornish branchlines then, noticed on a recent visit to Looe several bullhead rail chairs in the station area with GWR branding! In what year were those installed? On a positive note though, it was noticeable there had been quite extensive vegetation removal on the journey down from Liskeard, opening up some long hidden views, especially around Coombe Junc.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Similar thing for the Cornish branchlines then, noticed on a recent visit to Looe several bullhead rail chairs in the station area with GWR branding! In what year were those installed? On a positive note though, it was noticeable there had been quite extensive vegetation removal on the journey down from Liskeard, opening up some long hidden views, especially around Coombe Junc.

The station in Looe has been relocated, with the branch slightly shortened. On that basis it is possible that those rail chairs have been recycled from elsewhere. I'd also imagine that upon nationalisation there would have been a reasonable stockpile of GWR components and no reason not to use them, so they won't necessarily date back as far as one might think.

 

[SeanG]

so they won't necessarily date back as far as one might think.

Could it be possible that they were manufactured long after the GWR had ceased to exist, using older moulds?

 

[Ash Bridge]

The station in Looe has been relocated, with the branch slightly shortened. On that basis it is possible that those rail chairs have been recycled from elsewhere. I'd also imagine that upon nationalisation there would have been a reasonable stockpile of GWR components and no reason not to use them, so they won't necessarily date back as far as one might think.

Could it be possible that they were manufactured long after the GWR had ceased to exist, using older moulds?

All good points there, although I think the current platform at Looe is still the original one, but was cut back to less than half its lenth by BR in 1968 to accommodate only 2 car dmu's.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Ihave it on excellent authority from the ex Area Civil Engineer Birmingham - that the life of an ex GWR rail chair was almost infinite - when he ran the Cambrian in the cash tight days of the 1980's he had 2 old boys doing little else but examining chairs and rotten sleepers removed from the route, assesing the chairs ,cleaning them up - and fettling them onto secondhand but good sleepers for further use on the Coast line. Cost was about £15 per sleeper and chairs. He also got secondhand CWR off the ECML for the Cambrian main line - and got sections of the route up from 50 - to 80 mph at the lowest possible cost. But then - BR was a monolithic and "deeply inefficient" organisaton according to John Major.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Ihave it on excellent authority from the ex Area Civil Engineer Birmingham - that the life of an ex GWR rail chair was almost infinite - when he ran the Cambrian in the cash tight days of the 1980's he had 2 old boys doing little else but examining chairs and rotten sleepers removed from the route, assesing the chairs ,cleaning them up - and fettling them onto secondhand but good sleepers for further use on the Coast line. Cost was about £15 per sleeper and chairs. He also got secondhand CWR off the ECML for the Cambrian main line - and got sections of the route up from 50 - to 80 mph at the lowest possible cost. But then - BR was a monolithic and "deeply inefficient" organisaton according to John Major.

When a 158 dropped its driveshaft on the points on the platform in Aberystwyth in the early 2000's damaging them beyond repair they found out they dated from the GWR rebuild of the station in 1926. If it hadn't been for the drive shaft they'd probably be still operational! The 1863 Newtown and Machynlleth Railway engine shed is still in use as part of Machynlleth depot albeit with a new roof.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

. But then - BR was a monolithic and "deeply inefficient" organisaton according to John Major.

Just like the CEGB etc. etc etc. The truth is that BR, warts and all, was remarkably efficient and cost effective. I suspect that this might have had something to do with it being run by railwaymen.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agree to all of that. But at some stage you do have to decide that the size and shape of a national railway system is and how far to the periphery its lines should extend. Does a properly integrated road service with appropriate vehicles not meet the transport requirement better at some point?

No, if only because the UK is completely incapable of operating a proper "integrated road service" (one fully part of the railway ticketing, timetabling and PIS). Rarely has it ever done so even in the past.