Heaton to share depot with T&WM

[Driver068]

I have heard rumors that the T&WM might be closing their depot at Gosforth and moving to the Heaton T&RSMD in Newcastle. Reality or ambition which will never get of the ground.

 

[swt_passenger]

Definitely serious, Nexus were reported to be buying a disused shed at Heaton early last year.

No evidence that it will be shared with Northern though, or that it will necessarily be the only depot, there are a number of options in this Nexus report:

eg 4.3.7 It is important to note that in 2014 Nexus is seeking to purchase a disused building and land at the east side of the (heavy rail) Heaton Depot. A business case is being investigated into the establishment of a combined stabling facility and training academy for light rail engineering. If such a facility were eventually constructed, it could act as a medium-sized out-stabling facility as described above. However this should not preclude the investigation of other main depot sites, or smaller out- stabling facilities elsewhere.

4.3.9 It is recommended that further work be undertaken to evaluate options for the long-term depot and stabling requirements of a Metro fleet. This work should be split into the following workstreams:
1. Establishment of options and outline costings to refurbish the existing Gosforth Depot to provide long-term sustainability of operations.
2. Estimate the costs of a brand new main depot.
3. Identify and come to an initial view about alternative sites for a new main depot, or out-stabling.
This work will inform and be informed by the business case for Heaton Depot described above.
4. Identify the likely disposal proceeds of Gosforth Depot, were it to be sold.

http://www.nexus.org.uk/sites/default/files/Metro Strategy Background document.pdf

 

[Class 170101]

Is Heaton Depot well utilised or does it have room to take on more work?

 

[swt_passenger]

Is Heaton Depot well utilised or does it have room to take on more work?

It can't be fully used or there wouldn't be a disused shed that Nexus to buy? The map in appendix 5 of the above linked report shows the area they are interested in, with room for approach tracks off the Metro route it could be what, 20% of the overall site?

 

[Stats]

There are no plans to move the depot from Gosforth to Heaton. The Heaton site is primarily planned to be a training facility which could so be used for stabling some stock. It is true that selling the Gosforth site may be a consideration in the future, as posted by swt_passenger, but that depends on a number of factors, not least finding a suitable site next to the railway. Fawdon was identified as a possibility in the strategy consultation document.

 

[Driver068]

It can't be fully used or there wouldn't be a disused shed that Nexus to buy? The map in appendix 5 of the above linked report shows the area they are interested in, with room for approach tracks off the Metro route it could be what, 20% of the overall site?

What I do know, and correct me if I am wrong, Northern run the Depot and keep some of there stock there and also have rolling stock from Grand Central, Virgin Trains East Coast and Transpennine. So there you can see that's 4 TOCS already, also they'll have a measurement train booked in there once in a while. So whats i am saying really is it might not be a big depot but in the evening it can be quiet full, but like mentioned in another post not busy enough to use all sheds. On that also VTEC are suppose to be moving there stock in phases to Tyne yard in Gateshead, hence the building work, as I am lead to believe thats to house the new 800/801 within the next few years, where that leave XC I dont know.
But with the T&WM, would they line share, or would it be one depot split into two parts. Not sure how much of heaton is OHEL as they'll be 25,000 whilst the T&WM is only 12,000 (Give or take.)

 

[DarloRich]

What I do know, and correct me if I am wrong, Northern run the Depot and keep some of there stock there and also have rolling stock from Grand Central, Virgin Trains East Coast and Transpennine. So there you can see that's 4 TOCS already, also they'll have a measurement train booked in there once in a while. So whats i am saying really is it might not be a big depot but in the evening it can be quiet full, but like mentioned in another post not busy enough to use all sheds. On that also VTEC are suppose to be moving there stock in phases to Tyne yard in Gateshead, hence the building work, as I am lead to believe thats to house the new 800/801 within the next few years, where that leave XC I dont know.
But with the T&WM, would they line share, or would it be one depot split into two parts. Not sure how much of heaton is OHEL as they'll be 25,000 whilst the T&WM is only 12,000 (Give or take.)

the bit metro are after is the unused old diesel depot at the back of the site that borders Benfield Business Park not the depot close to the ECML

 

[swt_passenger]

the bit metro are after is the unused old diesel depot at the back of the site that borders Benfield Business Park not the depot close to the ECML

What I get from the details linked above is that the bit they are after is completely unused, and there'd be a direct connection to the Tynemouth route well east of Chillingham Rd, so there'd be no impact whatsoever on Northern, no need for dual electrification, or track sharing or anything like that.

 

[DarloRich]

What I get from the details linked above is that the bit they are after is completely unused, and there'd be a direct connection to the Tynemouth route well east of Chillingham Rd, so there'd be no impact whatsoever on Northern, no need for dual electrification, or track sharing or anything like that.

correct - although the site isn't (as far as i recall) actually connected to anything! It faces onto the metro just after Chillingham Road station - if i could link Bing i could show this v easily!

 

[swt_passenger]

correct - although the site isn't (as far as i recall) actually connected to anything! It faces onto the metro just after Chillingham Road station - if i could link Bing i could show this v easily!

This should put google maps at the site: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.9867334,-1.5652342,627m/data=!3m1!1e3

It confirms that the area they intend to buy doesn't overlap the existing track layout at all.

 

[sprinterguy]

the bit metro are after is the unused old diesel depot at the back of the site that borders Benfield Business Park not the depot close to the ECML

Same site, but wasn't it a carriage shed rather than diesel depot (don't know what it started out life as, only know of it in its' latter days)?

 

[DarloRich]

Same site, but wasn't it a carriage shed rather than diesel depot (don't know what it started out life as, only know of it in its' latter days)?

got diesel depots on the the brain at present :roll: It is a carriage shed after all!

 

[Driver068]

So where might that leave XC if VTEC take control of Tyne yard, or well at least base there new rolling stock

 

[DarloRich]

So where might that leave XC if VTEC take control of Tyne yard, or well at least base there new rolling stock

VTEC cant just take control of Tyne yard. It isn't theirs to take control of. DBS lease the site with some used by LNWR, some by DBS and some by NR.

 

[swt_passenger]

VTEC cant just take control of Tyne yard. It isn't theirs to take control of. DBS lease the site with some used by LNWR, some by DBS and some by NR.

...and huge amounts of empty space not used by anyone. I suggest VTEC could stick their whole fleet in there and it would still allow most of XC to turn up and rattle around...

 

[Driver068]

VTEC cant just take control of Tyne yard. It isn't theirs to take control of. DBS lease the site with some used by LNWR, some by DBS and some by NR.

DBS are closing Tyne yard and keeping Thornaby. All the building work being carried out at Tyne yard is too house the new class 800/801 for VTEC, eventually moving there full stock from Heaton

 

[Stats]

All the building work being carried out at Tyne yard is too house the new class 800/801 for VTEC, eventually moving there full stock from Heaton

I'm not sure where you are getting that from. Heaton is the contracted depot for IEP work in the North East. Is someone confusing it with being shortlisted as a potential site for the Hitachi assembly plant?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm not sure where you are getting that from. Heaton is the contracted depot for IEP work in the North East. Is someone confusing it with being shortlisted as a potential site for the Hitachi assembly plant?

It's rather odd That the best part of two decades has elapsed since privatisation, even more so since the move away from regular loco-hauled operation in that part of the country, yet confusion still reigns from any suggestion of a change in culture. If we're going to persist with the current industry structure people are just going to have to get used to it.My personal opinion is that the method of "liberalisation" of the railway industry applied in the UK is not the best way of working, compared to the methods used in certain other EU countries, but that's something that probably requires it's own thread for discussion.

 

[Driver068]

I'm not sure where you are getting that from. Heaton is the contracted depot for IEP work in the North East. Is someone confusing it with being shortlisted as a potential site for the Hitachi assembly plant?

There is nothing to SHORTLIST or mention POTENTIAL. The work is carrying on as we speak. I am talking about Tyne yard not Newton Aycliffe. They are completely two different locations. One being in Country Durham and the other being in Tyne and wear, so I dont see where I might me getting confused from.

The new class 800/801 are being assembled at Newton Aycliffe for TOCS including VTEC. Tyne yard is one location where they are potentially to be stored over night. I am getting the information sourced from within the rail industry.

 

[edwin_m]

There are no plans to move the depot from Gosforth to Heaton. The Heaton site is primarily planned to be a training facility which could so be used for stabling some stock. It is true that selling the Gosforth site may be a consideration in the future, as posted by swt_passenger, but that depends on a number of factors, not least finding a suitable site next to the railway. Fawdon was identified as a possibility in the strategy consultation document.

If they use it Heaton for stabling and keep Gosforth or somewhere nearby, would they still need the Jesmond-Manors link?

 

[Stats]

There is nothing to SHORTLIST or mention POTENTIAL. The work is carrying on as we speak. I am talking about Tyne yard not Newton Aycliffe. They are completely two different locations. One being in Country Durham and the other being in Tyne and wear, so I dont see where I might me getting confused from.

The new class 800/801 are being assembled at Newton Aycliffe for TOCS including VTEC. Tyne yard is one location where they are potentially to be stored over night. I am getting the information sourced from within the rail industry.

Tyne Yard was shortlisted as a potential site for the train assembly plant. as we know they chose Newton Aycliffe. There is no mention at all of Tyne Yard in the legally binding published contracts with Agility Trains. There is a detailed description of what works will be required or allowed to be carried out at Heaton and how many units will be allowed to be stabled there at any one time.

In case I have missed something I have done a search and I can find no reference to IEP at Tyne Yard other than the original shortlisting for the train assembly plant. If what you say is true I would expect there to be a reference to it somewhere. If there is, then I would grateful if someone can point me in the right direction.

Edit to add the draft Northern franchise agreement for the forthcoming franchise confirms Heaton as the IEP depot and requires the succesful bidder to engage constructively in enabling works and in the provision of services and facilities to support the ongoing maintenance of IEPs.