AT300s confirmed for South West services by DfT

[Xavi]

AT300s have been confirmed by DfT today.

 

[Rapidash]

AT300s have been confirmed by DfT today.

Indeedy

Western Boring News

Ministers have given the go ahead for a new fleet of 29 long distance trains for the South West, to be introduced to routes between Cornwall and the capital by 2018.

The state of the art Hitachi trains will improve journey time and increase capacity by 24% – creating more than 1,000 additional peak-time seats.

They will also be capable of operating on both non-electric and electric routes, and will cut the average travelling time between Penzance and London cut by 14 minutes.

Rail minister Claire Perry visited Exeter to mark the announcement today.

Guess First finally found the paperwork down the back of the sofa.

 

[bnm]

Any news on where these sets will be maintained?

The lease arrangements are very different from the Class 800/801s which are subject to a build and maintain contract with Hitachi. As these new trains are being purchased by a RoSCO is it likely the maintenance will be somewhere other than Stoke Gifford in Bristol?

 

[Rapidash]

I seem to recall the MP for Penzance was lobbying for Long Rock to be expanded. Laira's being downgraded, though?

 

[sprinterguy]

Servicing of the AT-300s will take place at Plymouth Laira and Penzance Long Rock, with heavier maintenance being undertaken at the dedicated Hitachi depot at North Pole.

Laira will lose much of its' major engineering role, however.

Laira depot secures role for AT300s in revived GWR
09/05/2015 in Network

First Great Western says Plymouth’s Laira depot will service the Hitachi AT300 bi-mode trains from their introduction, should the Secretary of State for Transport approve the order at the end of June.

Confirmation came as FGW managers and directors undertook a comprehensive tour of the franchise for staff and stakeholders to explain changes in the Direct Award franchise, which starts on September 15.

Laira and Long Rock (Penzance) depots will service the AT300s, with maintenance carried out at North Pole alongside the similar Class 800s.

The announcement follows concerns about potential job cuts at Laira as a result of the introduction of the new trains (RAIL 773). While a servicing role means the depot will retain work on long-distance trains, it still stands to lose much of the major engineering it has been undertaking on the High Speed Train fleet.

As well as new trains, the most visual aspect of the new franchise will be the abandonment of the First Great Western name in favour of a revival of the Great Western Railway, a name last used commercially on December 31 1947 (see Analysis, pages 32-33).

All the Class 800s, AT300s, Class 57s and ‘Night Riviera’ rolling stock will be painted green with (when the new franchise starts) cast GWR letters on the vehicles. The first ‘Night Riviera’ coaches in unbranded green began operation at the start of May.

•For more on this story, see RAIL 774 published on May 13 2015
- See more at: http://www.railmagazine.com/news/ne...or-at300s-in-revived-gwr#sthash.pRLG1OOJ.dpuf

 

[ainsworth74]

I seem to recall the MP for Penzance was lobbying for Long Rock to be expanded. Laira's being downgraded, though?

Yes Long Rock will be taking over maintenance of the Night Riviera stock at some point in the next couple of years and possibly some DMU work as well but I might be mistaken on that. Certainly once Old Oak Common closes the Night Riviera will be maintained at Long Rock.

Glad to see some common sense has broken out and the Greater Western franchise won't have a micro-fleet of HSTs for its long distance services.

 

[Emblematic]

Interesting - I was beginning to wonder what was going on, as this decision was expected back in June. I did wonder whether it might be delayed until there was capacity to build these at Newton Aycliffe (as, unless it's changed, it was reported that these would come from Japan,) but that would leave the issue of PRM-TSI compliance by 2020 for the HSTs. Also I wondered if there was any negotiation to reschedule the deliveries ahead of the IEP electrics, to get around the issues of the bi-modes running extended/higher speed diagrams temporarily. Modern Railways (August) did note that there was rumour of fitting temporary engine rafts to the IEP electric sets.

 

[RobShipway]

Interesting - I was beginning to wonder what was going on, as this decision was expected back in June. I did wonder whether it might be delayed until there was capacity to build these at Newton Aycliffe (as, unless it's changed, it was reported that these would come from Japan,) but that would leave the issue of PRM-TSI compliance by 2020 for the HSTs. Also I wondered if there was any negotiation to reschedule the deliveries ahead of the IEP electrics, to get around the issues of the bi-modes running extended/higher speed diagrams temporarily. Modern Railways (August) did note that there was rumour of fitting temporary engine rafts to the IEP electric sets.

I think the dft has probably decided accept the order as I believe the majority of HST trains need to be moving to Scotrail and without that move, they would need to find trains to either replace trains on the GWR or provide different trains to Scotrail.

 

[MidlandMainlie]

When is the first one expected in service? Will they be available in time to fill the void if electrification is not ready and the HST's need to move off to Scotrail?

Should also ensure that there are plenty of spare HST power cars and Mk3 coaches for Scotrail and EMT.

 

[superalbs]

What terrible news, looks like I'll be travelling with SWT for my London bound trips from the day they enter service.

 

[Emblematic]

I think the dft has probably decided accept the order as I believe the majority of HST trains need to be moving to Scotrail and without that move, they would need to find trains to either replace trains on the GWR or provide different trains to Scotrail.

It's not quite the majority in terms of Class 43s (54 of 119), and less so for the Mk3 rakes. If the original franchise dates in the Scotrail contract are being adhered to, they need 14 x 4 carriage and 13 x 5 carriage sets for the timetable change in December 2018. Given that the 43s likely need just a lick of paint and an oil change, whereas the Mk3s need full refurbishment, PRM-TSI mods and CET tanks, it's the freeing up of around 15 HST rakes in 2017 that's needed to allow to allow time for the refit work (and then the 54 x Class 43 in 2018, but those could move to Scotland the night before they are needed, aside from issues like driver training.)
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What terrible news, looks like I'll be travelling with SWT for my London bound trips from the day they enter service.

You'd better hope that SWT retain the franchise then, given that it will be re-let a year before the AT300s make an appearance

 

[WatcherZero]

When is the first one expected in service? Will they be available in time to fill the void if electrification is not ready and the HST's need to move off to Scotrail?

Should also ensure that there are plenty of spare HST power cars and Mk3 coaches for Scotrail and EMT.

Will be delivered between May and December 2018 with first in service in the Summer of that year.

As said will be built in Japan because they conflict with delivery of previous orders however they will use the same UK sourced components that the IEP's do.

 

[Emblematic]

When is the first one expected in service? Will they be available in time to fill the void if electrification is not ready and the HST's need to move off to Scotrail?

The very vague press releases are saying from 2018 onwards - too late to help Scotrail, although hopefully they already have their sets by then. As for the rest - watch these forums for the next three years

Should also ensure that there are plenty of spare HST power cars and Mk3 coaches for Scotrail and EMT.

Assuming the new EMT franchisee doesn't get the nod that MML electrification is definitely kicked into the long grass, and order HST replacements themselves...

 

[Domh245]

What terrible news, looks like I'll be travelling with SWT for my London bound trips from the day they enter service.

May I ask why this is terrible news? Is it because
A) You are some sort of HST fanatic and refuse to travel on any other type of intercity train
B) You don't like the proposed interior and level of service provided by the IEP trains
C) You are showing solidarity with rail workers potentially affected by the introduction of these trains
D) Something else?

If the answer is B - remember that the IEP sets had interiors specified by the DfT. These sets are free to be specified as FGW want - being the long distance 'flagship' units, I would expect these units to have more than a trolley service

(If your answer was C, please don't drag this thread off about FGW, DOO, TUPE etc. There are already threads for that)

 

[superalbs]

May I ask why this is terrible news? Is it because
A) You are some sort of HST fanatic and refuse to travel on any other type of intercity train
B) You don't like the proposed interior and level of service provided by the IEP trains
C) You are showing solidarity with rail workers potentially affected by the introduction of these trains
D) Something else?

If the answer is B - remember that the IEP sets had interiors specified by the DfT. These sets are free to be specified as FGW want - being the long distance 'flagship' units, I would expect these units to have more than a trolley service

(If your answer was C, please don't drag this thread off about FGW, DOO, TUPE etc. There are already threads for that)

Not a fan of the whole underfloor engine, and the low-quality interior, but as you said, FGW have control over this, and will hopefully do a good job. (GWR First Class on the HSTs is fantastic, copy that!)
Don't think MUs are very good for IC services.

 

[iantherev]

One moment - just remind me where the engines on the Class 159s are situated?

 

[bnm]

Not a fan of the whole underfloor engine, and the low-quality interior, but as you said, FGW have control over this, and will hopefully do a good job. (GWR First Class on the HSTs is fantastic, copy that!)
Don't think MUs are very good for IC services.

Where are the engines on the Class 159s you'd switch to? What are Class 159s if not MUs?

Do enjoy your slow trundle to Waterloo from 2019. :roll:

 

[NotATrainspott]

As we've discovered before, if anyone is particularly annoyed about the prospect of sitting on top of a diesel engine running from Newbury to Penzance, then they can just choose to sit in one of the many non-engined carriages. All driving vehicles lack engines and there are some intermediate trailer vehicles in IEPs longer than 5 carriages.

 

[59CosG95]

As we've discovered before, if anyone is particularly annoyed about the prospect of sitting on top of a diesel engine running from Newbury to Penzance, then they can just choose to sit in one of the many non-engined carriages. All driving vehicles lack engines and there are some intermediate trailer vehicles in IEPs longer than 5 carriages.

Non-engined carriages...a luxury the 159s don't have...

 

[MCR247]

Non-engined carriages...a luxury the 159s don't have...

Yeah but the AT300s will have a low quality interior remember! :roll:

 

[Class 170101]

Glad to see some common sense has broken out and the Greater Western franchise won't have a micro-fleet of HSTs for its long distance services.

Just a microfleet of AT300s instead

However this investment is to be welcomed. :P

 

[rebmcr]

Do we think there's any chance that these will be another class than 803?

 

[swt_passenger]

Class 802 is just as likely?

 

[Blindtraveler]

Whilst Im still of the opinion that IEP equals Voyager Mark2, Im pleased that GWR will be able to spec these, that jobs in the Southwest will be retained and that DFT have saved Scotrails bacon and assuming the voyager mk2, AKA IEP introduction starts om time in 2 years enough trailers can go for refurb and on to Scotland with these arriving in 2018 to fill the gaps.
Only sad thing is that chances of bacon, cooked fresh in a freshly made sandwitch for anyone with any ticket in any class woant be sold on the voyager IEP Trolley.

I shall now sit bck and wate for the Voyager IEP appologists to inform me how wrong I am. Well Il bet when these propper IC Spec qualitty trains start appearing I woant be!

 

[jimm]

Whilst Im still of the opinion that IEP equals Voyager Mark2, Im pleased that GWR will be able to spec these, that jobs in the Southwest will be retained and that DFT have saved Scotrails bacon and assuming the voyager mk2, AKA IEP introduction starts om time in 2 years enough trailers can go for refurb and on to Scotland with these arriving in 2018 to fill the gaps.
Only sad thing is that chances of bacon, cooked fresh in a freshly made sandwitch for anyone with any ticket in any class woant be sold on the voyager IEP Trolley.

I shall now sit bck and wate for the Voyager IEP appologists to inform me how wrong I am. Well Il bet when these propper IC Spec qualitty trains start appearing I woant be!

So how do you know you are right when, like the rest of us, you have not actually set foot on an IEP, since they haven't been built yet?

Never mind that they will have a normal body profile rather than the one required on the Voyagers to allow for tilt, which has a fair bit to do with making their interiors cramped, along with the profusion of toilets so large you could fit my garden shed into them.

And following the demise of the Travelling Chef, no one can get freshly-cooked bacon in a freshly-made sandwich on an FGW HST right now - but don't let that get in the way of a good whinge, will you? The only freshly-cooked bacon now available is served on the breakfast and brunch Pullmans as part of the Great Westerner breakfast. Everyone else has to make do with a pre-packed bacon baguette bunged in the microwave.

 

[455driver]

And following the demise of the Travelling Chef, no one can get freshly-cooked bacon in a freshly-made sandwich on an FGW HST right now - but don't let that get in the way of a good whinge, will you?

Which was a decision taken at the time so people wouldn't associate the withdrawal with the introduction of the new trains, the Travelling Chef made quite a profit and was well used and liked by the passengers.

 

[bnm]

Everyone else has to make do with a pre-packed bacon baguette bunged in the microwave.

Point of order. Not bunged in a microwave. A Merrychef.
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Which was a decision taken at the time so people wouldn't associate the withdrawal with the introduction of the new trains, the Travelling Chef made quite a profit and was well used and liked by the passengers.

I was told by senior management prior to withdrawal that the Travelling Chef services were loss making. As are buffets. Pullman Dining just about covers costs, but only when the full service is able to be offered and the restaurant is full.

 

[BananaRepublic]

....like the rest of us, you have not actually set foot on an IEP, since they haven't been built yet?

I agree entirely with your point Jimm, but "haven't been built yet"???
Don't forget there are two undergoing testing at Old Dalby, which have also been running up and down a stretch of the ECML for a couple of months now.

 

[455driver]

I was told by senior management prior to withdrawal that the Travelling Chef services were loss making. As are buffets. Pullman Dining just about covers costs, but only when the full service is able to be offered and the restaurant is full.

Yeah one bloke bunging out large numbers of freshly made bacon sandwiches etc at £5 a pop (with very little waste at the end of the day) is obviously loss making but having 7 people offering really posh food (with lots of waste some days) obviously covers its costs! :roll:

I did see the figures about the losses by the TC service and they simply didn't add up at all, example, each item prepared by the chef allegedly lost £10 so a bacon sandwich cost £15 to make! :roll:

Edit-
I note there are only 7x9 coach trains but 22x5 coach trains, will 260m fit on most of the platforms or will it be 5 coach IEP replacing 8 coach HST?

 

[43074]

Edit-
I note there are only 7x9 coach trains but 22x5 coach trains, will 260m fit on most of the platforms or will it be 5 coach IEP replacing 8 coach HST?

Probably a bit of both - where appropriate it will be 5 coach IEP vice HST but they will have SDO so 10 car will be possible. The often discussed detachment of a 5 car at Plymouth to go on to Penzance is also likely to happen. Don't worry though - there will be lots of little trains running more frequently so its fine!