Class 165s and 166s in Devon and Cornwall

[superalbs]

The Class 165 and Class 166s are moving down to St Philips Marsh once cascaded from the Thames Valley, and this means the Class 150/2s and Class 158s move to Exeter T.M.D.

Will the Turbos ever end up on services to Devon and Cornwall, on runs to and from Cardiff or Bristol? Currently this service is ran by a Class 150/1, but thankfully is no longer a Class 143. The metro layout is unsuitable for the longer journeys, and the refurbished Class 166 could be good with their 2+2 seating and higher top speed.

 

[83G/84D]

Class 165s & 166s are unable to run west of Exeter as there step boards will scrape some of the platform edges. One carried out a trial in the early 90's to Plymouth but little chance of them going into Devon & Cornwall.

 

[Rapidash]

I'd have thought the Ply/pgn Cardiff service would go to being consistently a 158?

 

[jimm]

Class 165'S & 166's are unable to run west of Exeter as there step boards will scrape some of the platform edges. One carried out a trial in the early 90's to Plymouth but little chance of them going into Devon & Cornwall.

Clearance work across a wide area in the West Country is planned to allow the Turbos to cover most routes, whether or not they will be diagrammed to work there regularly. It would be pretty dumb not to be able to use them to help out in the summer, much as Bristol area 150s do now.

The step boards were presumably removed during that visit in the early 1990s as a precaution, not because of any certain knowledge. Nor was much work needed on the routes they currently work before they were introduced in 1992/93. And a Cotswold Line Promotion Group charter using a 166 got all the way from Didcot to Castle Cary and Weymouth and back complete with stepboards without problems in 1997.

 

[455driver]

Class 165'S & 166's are unable to run west of Exeter as there step boards will scrape some of the platform edges. One carried out a trial in the early 90's to Plymouth but little chance of them going into Devon & Cornwall.

They will reach Exeter/ Paignton (and potentially Plymouth) regularly, but not go into Cornwall, at least not yet.

 

[swt_passenger]

Gauge clearance for 165/166 is a fairly regular topic.

Here's how it was listed in the original CP5 enhancement project for the work:

Gauge clearance for 165/166 is a fairly regular topic.

Here's how it was listed in the original CP5 enhancement project for the work:

Group 1 – Core routes (clearance required by December 2016)
* Bristol Temple Meads (BRI) to Cardiff Central.
* Avonmouth to Bristol Parkway plus the Filton chords.
* BRI to Portsmouth.
* BRI to Worcester (including Gloucester).
* Bristol TM to Weymouth.
* BRI to Severn Beach.
* BRI to Portishead (*noting MetroWest Phase 1 proposals).
* BRI to Exeter St Davids (including Weston–super-Mare).
* Routes to and from Bristol St Phillips Marsh depot.
* Swindon to Standish junction.
* Swindon to Salisbury.
* Brighton to Portsmouth.
* Southampton to Poole.

Group 2 – additional routes to Exeter (clearance required by mid-2017)
* Exeter St Davids to Plymouth.
* Exeter St Davids to Barnstaple.
* Exeter St Davids to Axminster.
* Newton Abbot to Paignton.
* Castle Cary to Cogload Junction.
* Frome Loop and Hawkeridge Curve – Westbury.
* Routes to and from Laira depot.

Group 3 – Plymouth to Penzance (clearance requirement to be determined)
* Main line routes only.
* Gunnislake branch.
* St Ives branch.

It would be wrong to assume that they won't reach either Exeter or even Plymouth or Penzance.

 

[superalbs]

Will St. Philips Marsh even be able to hold all of the Turbos? Maybe some of them could stay around Exeter's new and expanded depot when it opens.

 

[455driver]

Will St. Philips Marsh even be able to hold all of the Turbos? Maybe some of them could stay around Exeter's new and expanded depot when it opens.

They will only need about half the depot because there wont be any HSTs there and the IEPs will all be at the new depot at Parkway.

They wont let the 165/166s stay at Exeter because these trains are far too posh for us lot down here!

As for the new depot? LOL!

 

[sprinterguy]

Will St. Philips Marsh even be able to hold all of the Turbos? Maybe some of them could stay around Exeter's new and expanded depot when it opens.

Not all of the Turbos will be going to St Phillips Marsh. St Phillips Marsh will be gaining 108 class 165/166 vehicles.

At the same time, FGWs' 143s, 150/1s and 153s will be going off lease.

All of FGWs' 150/2s and 158s will be moved to the expanded Exeter depot, rather than Turbos.

Reportedly this means that St Phillips Marsh sees an increase of 5 vehicles on its current DMU allocation.

Note that all HST work at St Phillips Marsh will also cease in June 2017 (assuming that IEP introduction happens on time) with IEP train maintenance being undertaken at the new purpose built facility at Stoke Gifford, so plenty of spare capacity to be had.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Sorry to go slightly off topic, but when the 153s go off lease what will replace them on branches such as Liskeard - Looe, 150/2s?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Sorry to go slightly off topic, but when the 153s go off lease what will replace them on branches such as Liskeard - Looe, 150/2s?

Might as well give them Pacers

 

[83G/84D]

Sorry to go slightly off topic, but when the 153s go off lease what will replace them on branches such as Liskeard - Looe, 150/2s?

All Cornish branch lines are planned to be worked by 150/2's.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Might as well give them Pacers

Could you imagine the uproar from the residents living along the line in the Looe Valley if those things returned I believe they were some of the most vociferous complainants about squealing flanges when the 142s originally worked the line when new.

All Cornish branch lines are planned to be worked by 150/2's.

So a near doubling of seating capacity on weekday trains, that's no bad thing then.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Might as well give them Pacers

Expensive choice!! Complaints from passengers re squealing etc were ignored, but after track wear, massive wheel wear - regular turning to restore flange profile, replacement wheels etc, they were sent up North!

 

[Parallel]

Interesting that all Devon branches are planned to be cleared, with the exception of Exmouth (well, and Okehampton). I assume 150s will be the norm on the Devon metro with the longer distance services to Paignton being 165/166s or 158s.

What is happening with the 150/0s?

 

[455driver]

What is happening with the 150/0s?

Going to Exeter.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Confined to Reading-Blazingsmoke work at the mo. Being non-standard its hard to tell....

 

[ag51ruk]

Might as well give them Pacers

And you could call them Skippers

 

[superalbs]

Not sure if the 150/0s will go to Exeter, a fleet of just two is very small, and they don't have multi-unit gangways either, like the other fleet for Devon Metro have. Are they 2+3 seats?

I thought Exeter was getting a new depot, other side of the crossing, but this idea got laughed at, so I guess that's not happening?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

And you could call them Skippers

You could stick the body and engine of one of these

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Wilts_and_Dorset_Skipper_minibus.jpg

onto a train chassis

 

[BestWestern]

Why the clearance on So'ton - Poole?

 

[D6975]

I found that curious too, Soton -Poole included, but Exmouth missing.

 

[SWTH]

Not sure if the 150/0s will go to Exeter, a fleet of just two is very small, and they don't have multi-unit gangways either, like the other fleet for Devon Metro have. Are they 2+3 seats?

I thought Exeter was getting a new depot, other side of the crossing, but this idea got laughed at, so I guess that's not happening?

The current plan within FGW is that both 150/0s will go to Exeter. The lack of gangways isn't an issue, because they won't run in multiple with anything else under normal circumstances.

There is a plan for turning Riverside yard into the new Exeter MPD, but when (if) it'll happen is anyone's guess - figure at least a couple of railway year's* time.

*Railway Year: a period of time similar to the length of a piece of string, though usually considerably longer than anyone expects.

 

[455driver]

Not sure if the 150/0s will go to Exeter, a fleet of just two is very small, and they don't have multi-unit gangways either, like the other fleet for Devon Metro have. Are they 2+3 seats?

I thought Exeter was getting a new depot, other side of the crossing, but this idea got laughed at, so I guess that's not happening?

The 150/0s are going to Exeter (unless somebody changes their mind), being 3 coaches long they wont need to couple to other units in service because a 5 coach train wont fit on a lot of the platforms.

As for the new depot, I will believe it when I see the JCBs arrive on site and start digging.

 

[swt_passenger]

Why the clearance on So'ton - Poole?

The 2012 GW franchise ITT (the one that lapsed following the WCML problems) included the possibility of the GW franchisee extending to Poole via Southampton.

No-one could understand the reasoning back then either...

4.3.2.2 Franchise Geography

The Franchise Agreement (paragraph 2.2 of Schedule 1.6), sets out the routes over which the Franchisee is permitted to operate. This has been based on those of the current franchise plus two further routes that have been added following receipt and review of suggestions from Bidders prior to the issue of the ITT. The additional routes over which the Franchisee may also operate if they so wish are:

Southampton Central to Poole from May 2017 onwards only;
and Banbury to Stratford upon Avon.

Bidders are free to operate trains over these routes, subject to fulfilling the other requirements of the Franchise Agreement. Such services will not form part of the TSR. By accepting Bids which include plans for such services, the Department does not guarantee it will support future applications for track access on these routes.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...hment_data/file/3596/invitation-to-tender.pdf

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Are there any plans to modify the couplers on the 'Wessex' Turbo units to allow them to rescue or be rescued by 15Xs? AIUI they were originally planned to be capable of working together, until NSE made some sort of change to prevent them being "borrowed" by the Provincial sector. If it's a relatively easy fix it might be worthwhile as there will be some degree of overlap of the areas the two fleets will be working.

If it is in fact way more complicated than that, I apologise for what might seem a silly question to those who know better...

 

[455driver]

Are there any plans to modify the couplers on the 'Wessex' Turbo units to allow them to rescue or be rescued by 15Xs? AIUI they were originally planned to be capable of working together, until NSE made some sort of change to prevent them being "borrowed" by the Provincial sector. If it's a relatively easy fix it might be worthwhile as there will be some degree of overlap of the areas the two fleets will be working.

If it is in fact way more complicated than that, I apologise for what might seem a silly question to those who know better...

It is a very easy fix as its just a couple of wires that need to be swapped over in the coupler box.

There is no such thing as a stupid question, although some poster seem to push the idea!
Not you I hasten to add!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It is a very easy fix as its just a couple of wires that need to be swapped over in the coupler box.

There is no such thing as a stupid question, although some poster seem to push the idea!
Not you I hasten to add!

Thanks for the response. I suppose an issue I've just thought of might be the fact that a handful of Turbos are staying at Reading for North Downs and Marlow, so having two different couplings within the same TOC would cause problems...

 

[455driver]

Thanks for the response. I suppose an issue I've just thought of might be the fact that a handful of Turbos are staying at Reading for North Downs and Marlow, so having two different couplings within the same TOC would cause problems...

Just modify them all, no issues then.

 

[geoffk]

If Northern and FGW are to lose all their Pacers by 2020, will they all end up with ATW?

The refurbished 144 is back with Northern, although I've not seen any reports of it in service. If this complies with DDA regs and the remaining 144s and 143s are similarly treated, they could all be operated by ATW for a few more years, releasing their 142s, which would be withdrawn.

And who is getting the Vivarail D trains?