Last carriage

[Grayum]

are there disadvantages in being in the last carriage
I think need to be more specific. On our outward journey from Stafford to Euston in the last but one carriage we had a smooth comfortable no feeling of being jolted in your seat.
On our return in the last carriage I felt I was being buffeted from side to side in my seat, having a very unsatisfied and miserable journey home. Is this normal or are there other factors to consider.

Thank you all your sensible replies
Hope you understand my question now.

 

[EM2]

It depends.

 

[6Gman]

It depends.

Quite.

It depends on the type of train, the journey being made.

It also depends on what you mean by "disadvantages"?

Noise. Comfort. Safety. Views. etc etc

 

[Carntyne]

You're the last one on the train to get where you're going....

 

[crehld]

It depends.

Indeed. My primary concern is 'is there a seat'?

 

[Hadders]

It depends on where you're travelling from and to.

For example, a Great Northern service from Kings Cross to Peterborough or Cambridge in the evening peak will often be wedged in the last carriage (ie the one nearest to the buffer stops at Kings Cross) yet relatively empty in the front carriage.

Many people are too lazy to walk the length of the train.

The opposite is true in the morning peak with the rearmost carriage being less busy than the one at the front.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

And it depends how far you have to walk to the exit when you get off the train at your destination

 

[3141]

I remember my parents telling me 70 years ago that the front carriage was dangerous if you hit something and the rear one even more because in a crash it would swing round. These were probably views they'd acquired from their parents. We mostly travelled on the Piccadilly Line and I never established whether, in a tube tunnel, you'd be safer in the rear because there wasn't far for the rear coach to swing, or at greater risk through hitting the tunnel wall.

In the event of a crash of some kind the front or rear coaches may be more dangerous. As a crash is extremely unlikely any disadvantage comes down to the particular circumstances, such as the chances of getting a seat, distance to the exit at a terminal, and so on.

 

[A-driver]

I remember my parents telling me 70 years ago that the front carriage was dangerous if you hit something and the rear one even more because in a crash it would swing round. These were probably views they'd acquired from their parents. We mostly travelled on the Piccadilly Line and I never established whether, in a tube tunnel, you'd be safer in the rear because there wasn't far for the rear coach to swing, or at greater risk through hitting the tunnel wall.



In the event of a crash of some kind the front or rear coaches may be more dangerous. As a crash is extremely unlikely any disadvantage comes down to the particular circumstances, such as the chances of getting a seat, distance to the exit at a terminal, and so on.

I think from a safety point of view there can't be a safer or less safe part of the train as its down to the specifics of the crash. Potters bar and Hatfield posed most danger (and loss of life) to those at the back whilst southall and Ladbroke Grove primarily affected the front of the trains.

 

[edwin_m]

I guess the front coach of a multiple unit is relatively more dangerous because most collisions and derailments will affect it, particularly hitting a road vehicle on a level crossing which is the most likely type of accident to happen. The last coach may have been most dangerous in a loco-hauled train but in a MU is likely to be safer than the first one, because tail-end collisions are very rare these days. However the differences are infinitesimal - you're probably more likely to suffer a heart attack running along the platform to whichever coach you prefer!

 

[Hadders]

At Hatfield I believe the people who lost their lives were in the buffet car which is in the middle of the train.

Thankfully, railway accidents are very very rare so I wouldn't worry about the safest part of the train to be in should a hypothetical accident occur.

 

[TheNewNo2]

I tend to go for the end furthest from the buffers at terminal stations, though that's usually because the bit closest will be first class.

 

[najaB]

I tend to go for the end furthest from the buffers at terminal stations, though that's usually because the bit closest will be first class.

Surely that depends on which end of the route you're at?

 

[1018509]

Look at that film of the Paddington crash. It wasn't the first coach that bent like a banana it was the third.

 

[47271]

If it's a Scotrail 170 on its way to Aberdeen or Inverness then I don't mind whether it's the last carriage or not, so long as it's the one without pesky seat reservations leading to fiddle faddle and discussion at every stop.

A few slightly off topic but related thoughts to stimulate conversation:

I'm a lot fussier about where about in the coach I sit. Regular use of sleepers taught me long ago to book as close to the middle as possible: far smoother and quieter than over the bogies or by wheezing corridor connections. And for me, not lurching around at the carriage ends is one of the many reasons not to waste money on First Class on Scotrail.

More eccentrically perhaps I also always prefer to travel backwards on trains, I think on the basis that the effects of braking are generally stronger than those of acceleration, and I'd rather be pushed back into the seat than lunge forward into whatever I'm doing at the time.

I've never thought about it before, but I wonder if there's any stats on the relative safety of carriage ends over middles, or forward versus rearward facing, in rail accidents?

Finally, am I the only person who gets annoyed when I'm sitting alone with my laptop at a table of four seats in a more than half empty train and a spatially oblivious 6'2" stranger comes and plonks themselves down with their own tablet or whatever in the seat opposite for no good reason? What's wrong with being diagonally across the table, aargh?!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If it's a Scotrail 170 on its way to Aberdeen or Inverness then I don't mind whether it's the last carriage or not, so long as it's the one without pesky seat reservations leading to fiddle faddle and discussion at every stop.

A few slightly off topic but related thoughts to stimulate conversation:

I'm a lot fussier about where about in the coach I sit. Regular use of sleepers taught me long ago to book as close to the middle as possible: far smoother and quieter than over the bogies or by wheezing corridor connections. And for me, not lurching around at the carriage ends is one of the many reasons not to waste money on First Class on Scotrail.

More eccentrically perhaps I also always prefer to travel backwards on trains, I think on the basis that the effects of braking are generally stronger than those of acceleration, and I'd rather be pushed back into the seat than lunge forward into whatever I'm doing at the time.

I've never thought about it before, but I wonder if there's any stats on the relative safety of carriage ends over middles, or forward versus rearward facing, in rail accidents?

Finally, am I the only person who gets annoyed when I'm sitting alone with my laptop at a table of four seats in a more than half empty train and a spatially oblivious 6'2" stranger comes and plonks themselves down with their own tablet or whatever in the seat opposite for no good reason? What's wrong with being diagonally across the table, aargh?!

If the train you're on collides with an object or another train, facing backwards the seat will prevent you being flung forwards... However, if it is busy you may end up with a facefull of the person sitting opposite you, or any luggage/unsecured items. As mentioned above though, you're more likely to have a heart attack running for your train than be involved in a train crash.

As for your last point, perhaps you just have a very approachable demeanour...? Grinning manically or sticking your tongue out can ensure that opportunities to meet new people will be minimised!

 

[Crossover]

On Pendos I believe the front coach offers a typically rougher ride as it has to make the calculations for the curves to send to the rest of the train for tilting, so it isn't quite as smooth

As for your last point, perhaps you just have a very approachable demeanour...? Grinning manically or sticking your tongue out can ensure that opportunities to meet new people will be minimised!

Or as some drunks did on a train I was in a few months ago, do a lot of coughing to try and stop people sitting nearby...it didn't work :P

 

[Emblematic]

Look at that film of the Paddington crash. It wasn't the first coach that bent like a banana it was the third.

You mean Southall - at Paddington (Ladbroke Grove) the leading carriages of both trains were by far the most damaged, and most of the fatalities were passengers of these vehicles.
At Southall, the power car and leading carriage (H) hit the freight wagons at an angle and rolled away from them, maintaining structural integrity. The second coach (G) hit the end of the separated wagons, and was caught between the now-jackknifing wagons, OLE stanchions and the rest of the HST, causing the severe damage noted.

 

[sprinterguy]

On Pendos I believe the front coach offers a typically rougher ride as it has to make the calculations for the curves to send to the rest of the train for tilting, so it isn't quite as smooth

That was a fault that was evident initially on the APT-Ps, where having the sensor equipment on the carriage it pertained to resulted in a late and sudden tilt response to curves. The tilt sensor was hence moved forward to the preceding coach, which was a bit of a bodged redesign that halved the redundancy of the tilt system, but solved the jerky tilt movement. I didn't think that this same fault had been carried over to the more advanced Pendolino design and the TASS system.

The bogies on leading vehicles will "hunt" more on curves, and a stiff suspension setup; as seems to be the case on the Pendolino; will accentuate this effect to the passenger - This was a particular criticism of the driving cars of the Blue Pullman in the early 1960s.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

At Hatfield I believe the people who lost their lives were in the buffet car which is in the middle of the train.

Towards the rear, in fact: The buffet car was the seventh vehicle in a nine carriage formation (plus loco at the front, DVT at the rear).

 

[crehld]

Seriously ladies and gents, if I thought the train was likely to crash I'd avoid the whole thing, never mind the rear carriage!

 

[D6975]

On Pendos I believe the front coach offers a typically rougher ride as it has to make the calculations for the curves to send to the rest of the train for tilting, so it isn't quite as smooth

No so. Pendos are fitted with an anticipatory system called Tiltronix. The train knows where it is and knows the geometry of the track ahead.

 

[TheNewNo2]

Surely that depends on which end of the route you're at?

Given I don't usually travel between two stations with terminal platforms, it's only the London end that matters.

 

[Carntyne]

Especially leaving Glasgow Central I'll use the further away (front) carriage, as no one can ever be bothered walking up, leading to a crammed rear 3 car and empty front 3 cars.

 

[edwin_m]

Finally, am I the only person who gets annoyed when I'm sitting alone with my laptop at a table of four seats in a more than half empty train and a spatially oblivious 6'2" stranger comes and plonks themselves down with their own tablet or whatever in the seat opposite for no good reason? What's wrong with being diagonally across the table, aargh?!

It is annoying. But possibly the person opposite chose the aisle or window seat for the same reason you did? Using the aisle seat you get less sun shining in your eyes or on the screen, and the window seat usually comes with squatters rights on any power socket.

 

[transmanche]

Many people are too lazy to walk the length of the train.

Seems that passengers can't win. In other threads they are criticised for not getting on at the first available door. And here they are criticised for not walking over 200m to the far end of 12-car train.

 

[najaB]

Seems that passengers can't win. In other threads they are criticised for not getting on at the first available door. And here they are criticised for not walking over 200m to the far end of 12-car train.

The only time I've seen that criticism is when the train is about to depart and the guard is calling them over to the local door.

 

[transmanche]

The only time I've seen that criticism is when the train is about to depart and the guard is calling them over to the local door.

And with various TOCs saying that doors will be closed 30/45/60/seconds or even 2 minutes before departure - how far down the platform are you going to risk walking before jumping on board? It's the railway equivalent of playing Buckaroo!

 

[najaB]

And with various TOCs saying that doors will be closed 30/45/60/seconds or even 2 minutes before departure - how far down the platform are you going to risk walking before jumping on board? It's the railway equivalent of playing Buckaroo!

I must have missed that one, which TOC closes doors two minutes prior to departure?

 

[Bishopstone]

I seem to recall some analysis, a few years ago, of recent rail crashes which stated that First Class passengers were disproportionately represented amongst the deceased. I assumed this was due to the location of First Class, generally at the very front or back of the train, although of course there are exceptions like the 317s (as built).

Another factor in survivability of accidents would be the higher average age of First Class customers.

As a child, my mother would insist we avoided the front and rear carriages on the District Line. This was a nuisance because I liked watching the guard operate his panel from the rearmost car, and working-out what 'pilot lights' were and the function of the mysterious cut-in and cut-out buttons. Also, in those days two of the non-driving cars were smoking vehicles, which didn't leave much choice! (Except when West Ham were playing at home, when every car seemed to become a smokers saloon).

 

[455driver]

I must have missed that one, which TOC closes doors two minutes prior to departure?

I think its Virgin at Euston, just one station in the whole of the Country being mentioned just to make an anti-rail point! :roll:

Nothing more than I expect really especially as it has nothing to do with the topic being discussed!