Reply from Merseyrail re: problems issuing more complex tickets at ME stations

[gray1404]

Hi guys, I received this reply today from Merseyrail re: problems issuing more complex tickets at ME stations. This is from when I asked for a SN&LM Advance to be issued and was turned away. I received a poor reply so asked for it to be looked at again.

I have to admit I am not over confidant of any vast improvements.

Thank you for your further e-mail. Please accept my apologies for the delay in replying.

I am sorry that you are dissatisfied with my colleague’s reply. We are committed to selling the full range of tickets to our customers, and all staff receive full training to enable them to carry out their duties correctly. Staff are monitored to ensure that they retail to a high standard, but we are in the process of reviewing retail training to reflect the increasing complexity of rail ticket retailing and we do accept that more effort should have been made to provide the ticket you had requested.

I can assure you that following your first e-mail, our Retail Trainer has contacted all staff at the station to provide guidance in issuing this type of ticket.

Southport station can be very busy, and although they may not always be able to issue complicated tickets immediately, I would have expected that more assistance should have been provided. As one of our busiest stations, it is important that customer can easily buy any requested ticket.

I can only apologise for the inconvenience this incident had caused to you and assure you that action is being taken to improve matters. If you can provide your full postal address, I will be happy to forward you some travel vouchers.

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention, and please do not hesitate to contact me again if you wish to discuss this matter any further.

 

[burns20]

Fazakerley, Sandhills or Southport couldn't issue a Lancashire Day Ranger with Two Together Discount and were given a hand written note to permit travel to Wigan Wallgate where we suceeded in buying one!

 

[gray1404]

Yet another example of a customer being turned away because they wanted something a little bit more "complicated" (i.e. a few more buttons then those for a Merseyrail Day Saver or a single/return being pressed). I see no reason why, given the system that Merseyrail are using that they cannot have issued such a ticket.

The fact it happened at 3 of their stations too demonstrates just how big the problem is with that TOC. I am concerned it is something of a norm too (not just the old person). I am going to have to start collecting together details of the incidents I can find on here (provided no one objects to be listing their case as an example of course) and send a detailed letter to the DfT and ORR. Enough is enough here.

 

[Merseysider]

I think the simplest way to test how good their response is, is to go back to Southport (preferably at a time when the queue isn't out the door) and try and buy your ticket to Brighton/Southampton/south coast again. Perhaps buy the outward and return advances from two different members of staff on the same day.

I had quite a problem getting PlusBus tickets from my local ME station but as soon as I mentioned it, I've miraculously had no issues since.

In your case, they've promised to talk to the staff involved to presumably teach them how to issue such tickets ("action is being taken"). That might take a week or so.

They've also promised to forward you some vouchers, which is a nice gesture. Again, that might take a week or so.

Whilst I agree that all tickets under the sun should be obtainable by the passenger, I also believe in giving a toc time to fix things if they say they will.

 

[gray1404]

I agree with you. Give them time to fix these things. I managed to get the bulk of my vouchers exchanged for cheques now anyway and those that I have remaining have been issued by Southern - so I can exchange them for cash next time I'm somewhere on their network. Therefore, I am happy to be able to make most of my complex bookings online now for collection from the fast ticket machine. It saves a lot of stress plus I can get cashback online too plus through the card I book it with.

Hopefully the vouchers they send will be for travel on the national rail network and not just for travel on their own ME network (I have a pass that covers this you see.)

What concerns me here is that its not just myself who has had such problems, and its not just with one type of fare. Others have had such problems with a vast range of retail issues (seat reservations, rangers/rovers, TOC specific advances) at several station locations on many different occasions. It is the militant response (NO CAN DO.) that bothers me too. I was at Hove station 2 weeks ago booking the ticket back up to Liverpool for travel the following day. I knew there were still seats on one specific departure.

The lady at the Southern booking office was in EXACTLY the same situation as what ME were in and she said "better book it online my love as its a much cheaper fare." When I asked her if she could please filter it by TOC because I remembered the screen shots RJ provided me with (i.e. include SN&LM - and uncheck the others) she did so with the greatest of pleasure. The fare came up and she thanked me for showing her how that can help. We blamed it on the "complicated computer" and turned it into a joke.

But it was the fact she had a "No problem, I'll try it" with a smile approach which meant I couldn't possibly have a bad word to say about her.

 

[Gathursty]

Some Merseyrail stations have MtoGo stores which combine a ticket office with an shop. I'm not saying it's an excuse that it is hard to juggle all the repsonsibilities of a shopkeeper with the intricacies of ticketing matters but I'm just going to leave it for a discussion point for others. Clearly Fazakerley has no such excuse but I know Southport is an MtoGo store. However I'll defend Southport as the guy sold me a future usage Fort William - Mallaig 16-25 railcard discounted ticket and printed off the timetable for the journey for me.

 

[gray1404]

.....the guy sold me a future usage Fort William - Mallaig 16-25 railcard discounted ticket and printed off the timetable for the journey for me.

I have just looked up the fares for that journey. I could see them being all right at that if you got one of the walk up fares but even with the advance, there is only one on offer with one fare setter. Plus they appear to be direct services too so should display on the system simply.

Merseyrail to tend to be all right with walk ups and the most simple of advances. As I say, its anything complicated when they start to wavier. We'll all have the case to case example of when we've had something good out of them. (I myself have managed to get a sailrail) but when you ask them to start entering via/avoid points or travel by specific TOC or sleeper supplement it can become hit and miss depending on who you get.

In my example (relating to the email reply I received), sadly 3 members of staff including the Station Supervisor closed ranks and I ran into problems.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Yesterday morning I (eventually) managed to buy a Ffestiniog Round Robin from one of Merseyrail's suburban stations. The ticket clerk was very helpful but after about five minutes of searching in the Rovers and Rangers menu on her terminal without luck, and with a large queue building up behind me, I asked for a single to Shotton with the intention of getting it excessed there. The Shotton ticket was issued but she persevered and managed to find the Round Robin as I was about to leave the counter, apparently by putting the J293 code of my printout from brfares.com into the search box for a destination station rather than a rover ticket. Shotton ticket refunded and Round Robin sold! I can't blame the helpful ticket clerk at all and the problems seem to be down to the clunky IT system and its lack of a comprehensive search function.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Yesterday morning I (eventually) managed to buy a Ffestiniog Round Robin from one of Merseyrail's suburban stations. The ticket clerk was very helpful but after about five minutes of searching in the Rovers and Rangers menu on her terminal without luck, and with a large queue building up behind me, I asked for a single to Shotton with the intention of getting it excessed there. The Shotton ticket was issued but she persevered and managed to find the Round Robin as I was about to leave the counter, apparently by putting the J293 code of my printout from brfares.com into the search box for a destination station rather than a rover ticket. Shotton ticket refunded and Round Robin sold! I can't blame the helpful ticket clerk at all and the problems seem to be down to the clunky IT system and its lack of a comprehensive search function.

That particular rover / round robin is unusual in that it isn't in the rover section on a TIS, it is point to point ticket, just like the ME Day Saver.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That particular rover / round robin is unusual in that it isn't in the rover section on a TIS, it is point to point ticket, just like the ME Day Saver.

I find the ME day saver pseudo-destination thing silly, but the round robin sort of is a point to point ticket so I can see the point. It doesn't allow unlimited travel so isn't a rover/ranger.

 

[cool110]

I find the ME day saver pseudo-destination thing silly...

It's a hack so that TVMs can sell them unlike proper rovers and rangers.

 

[gray1404]

Which station was it? I'm curious because with that particular tickets you can't start the journey on Merseyrail for the standard price, unless you get an add-on to commence it from Liverpool.

 

[First class]

It's a hack so that TVMs can sell them unlike proper rovers and rangers.

Most TOCs haven't updated their Avantix equipment to handle the correct ticket format for the Merseyrail I375 day ticket. As a result it prints as a "single". Merseyrail TVMs and booking offices (as well as ATW stations) can issue it in the correct "ranger" format.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Which station was it? I'm curious because with that particular tickets you can't start the journey on Merseyrail for the standard price, unless you get an add-on to commence it from Liverpool.

It was the £38.50 Round Robin that I bought - the one for travel from Liverpool, Manchester or Birmingham. Although it isn't publicised, it is valid form a bit beyond Liverpool on Merseyrail. I bought mine from Waterloo.

http://www.brfares.com/#expert?orig=WLO&dest=J293

 

[gray1404]

Thats really interesting and useful to know! thanks!

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's a hack so that TVMs can sell them unlike proper rovers and rangers.

Rather a messy solution compared with sorting out TVMs to be able to sell it!

 

[gray1404]

And as this is a Merseyrail post, they have not even configured their TVMs to be able to offer ticket collection from online bookings. This is despite having a considerable number of stations with TVMs and most of these also have a manned ticket office who, in theory, you would like to think would be able to resolve any issues with printing or finding a booking.

I did ask the question to Merseyrail about this a couple of years ago but their reply at the time was a simple "we have checked with the relevant Manager and we have no plans to introduce this service." It is a shame really being it would be useful to be able to collect tickets at my local station.

(have just sent a Tweet to Merseyrail to ask about this, given ToD is now something of a norm within the industry nationwide)

I was nervous last week when collecting a ToD Advance from the Northern branded TMV at Liverpool South Parkway 10 minutes before departure. I thought to myself any problems with this then will that Merseyrail booking office over there be able to sort this out for me.

 

[Merseysider]

And as this is a Merseyrail post, they have not even configured their TVMs to be able to offer ticket collection from online bookings. This is despite having a considerable number of stations with TVMs and most of these also have a manned ticket office who, in theory, you would like to think would be able to resolve any issues with printing or finding a booking.

I did ask the question to Merseyrail about this a couple of years ago but their reply at the time was a simple "we have checked with the relevant Manager and we have no plans to introduce this service." It is a shame really being it would be useful to be able to collect tickets at my local station.

(have just sent a Tweet to Merseyrail to ask about this, given ToD is now something of a norm within the industry nationwide)

I was nervous last week when collecting a ToD Advance from the Northern branded TMV at Liverpool South Parkway 10 minutes before departure. I thought to myself any problems with this then will that Merseyrail booking office over there be able to sort this out for me.

Yeah, it's somewhat a significant bugbear of mine.

I think maybe their reasoning for not offering TOD would be the potential loss in revenue on walk up tickets. As it stands, for a £6.35 ticket between two ME stations, sold at a ME station, Merseyrail get £6.35.

But TOD fees can be anything from 50p-£1 per transaction. Add in that if people buy their Southport-Birkenhead return from TPE or Virgin etc, 9% of the revenue that would normally go to Merseyrail when bought at the station goes instead to TPE or Virgin.

So Merseyrail would instead be looking at £5.00-£5.75 for the sale of that ticket instead of the full £6.35, and that would quickly add up.

But for advance tickets to further afield, there is no reason why three or four principle station ticket offices (SOP, BKQ, WKI, OMS perhaps) couldn't be hooked up to print the advances via their TIS, and maybe introduce a 50p fee for walk up ticket collection to discourage the consequential revenue loss described above.

As it stands though Merseyrail is a little bit behind other tocs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I personally think they should be required to provide TOD from any connectable ticket offices and TVMs. They are either part of the National Rail Network or they aren't. If they aren't, they don't get to sell through tickets and they can lose the revenue that way. If they are, they need to act like it and pack in the insularity, not only on things like this but on their bizarre non-standard ticket types, refusal of Railcard discounts (on the day tickets) and the likes.

They should not be permitted to have their cake and eat it.

 

[gray1404]

They Just replied my Tweet: "we have no immediate plans but are always reviewing the service we provide and this is being looked at." I would agree that bringing it in line with other TOCs would be a good thing. They could not start introducing a 50p (or similar) fee just because its Merseyrail. It would also be hard to make the system only offer Advance ticket type collections.

Merseyrail could start offering their own online ticket sales (like the other TOCs) so as to protect their revenue and still get the commission, they could also charge the £1 fee to the retailer who sold the ticket for collection from one of their own TVMs, on top of that it stands to reason that many of the tickets being collected from a ME TVM would be for journeys from that station anyway and therefore they'd be receiving money from that ticket sale though providing the train service.

There are a lot of heavily used stations on ME (Southport, Formby, Waterloo) all near me and being able to collect your ticket on departure is something Merseyrail customers are currently denied which is a real same.

 

[cool110]

Isn't the big problem with Merseyrail doing ToD that most of their TVMs are cash only so would need a hardware upgrade before it would even be possible.

As for the ToD fee the TSA fixes it at 90p from a ticket office and 40p from a TVM.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn't the big problem with Merseyrail doing ToD that most of their TVMs are cash only so would need a hardware upgrade before it would even be possible.

Well, that needs fixing as well anyway. When do they think it is? 1975?

 

[gray1404]

Yes, they need to fix that too. Make them duel card and cash (that means coins and notes Merseyrail). They do seriously need to get with the times. There is not even a link on their website to buy tickets online for "long distance travel".