Charged excess fare due to wrong advice

[furlong]

More formally, you might consider drawing to their attention any elements of the Code of Practice on retail information for rail tickets and services that you think might not have been followed. There may be computer logs showing what information was (or was not) searched for and displayed and CCTV might have picked up the episode.

not to give any information which it knows to be inaccurate or misleading, or any opinion not based on verifiable fact

Retailers should take steps to ensure that the information they provide is, to the best of their ability, accurate and truthful and that the way in which it is presented does not deceive passengers or lead the passenger to take a different understanding than that which is actually correct

But it might just come down to one person's word against another's.

 

[swj99]

.......

 

[AlterEgo]

The OP says they have had three emails to Thameslink about this.

Time for Transport Focus, I think. These cases are always difficult to prove either way, but the benefit of the doubt should lie with the passenger. Thameslink contradict themselves by saying the passenger should check the validity - but that's apparently what happened anyway! It is ludicrous to suggest one should get a "second opinion" when buying an ordinary railway ticket.

 

[Greenback]

Mistakes do happen, and I do think it's sensible to check that you have the tickets you asked for in terms of correct destination and date (if not travelling immediately) and things like that, but there has to be a line drawn somewhere!

If a passenger asks for the cheapest ticket to somewhere, and are told that this ticket will be valid on a certain train, then why should they feel the need to double check that the person who they were buying from got their facts right?

I don't really think that this is morally defensible. I believe that there's a good chance of a favourable legal outcome too, but it shouldn't get anywhere near a court.

 

[swj99]

.....I believe that there's a good chance of a favourable legal outcome too, but it shouldn't get anywhere near a court.

Most claims don't. Many aren't defended at all, because to a lot of defendants, it's simply not worth the time or hassle, and a lot are settled somewhere along the way, after the proceedings have been issued.

 

[Greenback]

IN this case I expect that the TOC will see sense and do the right thing once it's obvious that the OP won't be fobbed off with a silly explanation and excuse.

 

[talldave]

IN this case I expect that the TOC will see sense and do the right thing once it's obvious that the OP won't be fobbed off with a silly explanation and excuse.

I doubt it, if Govia have embedded the same level of incompetence at Thameslink as they have at Southern.

 

[Greenback]

If you're right, then it's up to the OP whether they want to let it go or tell the company they are going to instigate court action.

 

[najaB]

If you're right, then it's up to the OP whether they want to let it go or tell the company they are going to instigate court action.

I'd like to think that it won't be necessary to go as far as the courts, hopefully Passenger Focus will be able to sort it out. If not, a letter before action should be enough to let them see sense.

 

[Rileym99]

Thanks to all for all the advice and suggestions.

I did receive a further reply from Thameslink declining to give a refund, and suggesting that I contact Transport Focus. So that is what I have done. I will post an update when I hear back.

 

[gray1404]

Transport Focus time I think, This all comes down now to her being given incorrect information on the day she went to get the ticket. As had already been stated, if she had have been given the correct information (that the off peak ticket would not be valid at that time) then she would have chosen to take an earlier time.

 

[43167]

I've just put the ladies journey in on journey planner departing at around the time she did and the £61.90 off-peak return fare should have been valid for the journey she made according to that.

 

[furlong]

I've just put the ladies journey in on journey planner departing at around the time she did and the £61.90 off-peak return fare should have been valid for the journey she made according to that.

Can you attach a screenshot?

 

[Rail Ranger]

I've just put the 14.52 journey from Baldock to Coventry into the National Rail Journey Planner and it shows £97.00 Anytime Return. So the lady should have been excessed for £35.10 at Euston but Virgin have apparently charged her the full price single from Euston to Coventry (£74) on top of her existing ticket. Most normal passengers don't know about excesses because the rail industry chooses not to advertise them (I wonder why). I wonder what would have happened if she'd gone to the window at Euston and asked to be excessed?

 

[bb21]

£97 is the Anytime Single. The Anytime Return is £194. The excess would therefore be over £130, hence a new ticket was sold, being cheaper.

 

[Rail Ranger]

The National Rail website is incredibly misleading in the way it shows fares for return journeys, due largely to the obsession with showing advance single fares for each leg. There is a need for an "avoid advance fares" option.

 

[talldave]

I've just put the ladies journey in on journey planner departing at around the time she did and the £61.90 off-peak return fare should have been valid for the journey she made according to that.

Same for me too. Mysterious. I guess it depends on the interpretation of "depart" - does it refer to the start of the journey at the origin, or apply to every departure of every train required to complete the entire journey?

 

[34D]

Same for me too. Mysterious. I guess it depends on the interpretation of "depart" - does it refer to the start of the journey at the origin, or apply to every departure of every train required to complete the entire journey?

This restriction specifically mentions Euston, so no ambiguity I dont think.

Screenshot please?

 

[CyrusWuff]

Curiously, when I put the same journey in to the NR Journey Planner I got the result I'd expect...Namely only offering an Anytime Single or Return for the 1452 from Baldock.

EDIT: Added screenshot.

 

[Ediswan]

Same for me too. Mysterious. I guess it depends on the interpretation of "depart" - does it refer to the start of the journey at the origin, or apply to every departure of every train required to complete the entire journey?

This does seem to be the simplest error the ticket office could have made in this case. Noting there was a "before 15:00" restriction, but applying it from Baldock rather than from Euston.

Another potential source of confusion is that a £61.90 off-peak fare from Baldock to Coventry is valid starting on the 14:52. But via Hitchin, Peterborough and Nuneaton, arriving in Coventry long after 17:00.

The last useful advertised off-peak departure from Baldock via Euston is at 12:52. Via Peterborough it is at 13:26.

 

[talldave]

This restriction specifically mentions Euston, so no ambiguity I dont think.

Screenshot please?

Hmmm, I didn't grab it at the time and now I can't get it to re-create the same journey

 

[Ediswan]

There is a need for an "avoid advance fares" option.

That option exists on NRE, well buried of course:

* Enter your journey details and hit [Go]
* Scroll down past the list of services and click on "Show the cheapest"
* Deselect the fares you are not interested in and [Update]

"Avoid London" (or other station which attracts peak hour fares) as a via option may reveal cheaper (but slower) options.