Not charged a penalty fare!

[damo44]

OK, so this a little different to most threads in this sub-forum.

A few weeks ago I was travelling on the DLR in Zone 2 with a PAYG Oyster. It was my 2nd journey of the day (1st was Z1 to Z2) and was the 2nd of around 15 tube, DLR and bus journeys I made that day.

I heard a ticket inspector walking through the DLR train, and after a quick mental recap I couldn't recall touching in between leaving the underground and entering the DLR. When approached by the inspector I told him/her that I thought I'd forgotten to touch in. (S)he checked the card, confirmed that I'd forgotten to touch in and then walked away.

Convinced that (s)he would (legitimately) charge me a penalty fare I remained on the train for a couple more stops assuming that the inspector would return to take down my details. Nothing further was said.

I was surprised that I wasn't charged a penalty fare on the spot. The only explanation I could have given was I'd only previously used Oyster at a physical gate, or passing a bus driver, not at an ungated station. I would have accepted a penalty fare (albeit annoyed at myself for being so dozy at not looking for the Oyster reader when I got on the DLR).

Questions are a) why wasn't I given a PF on the spot b) will I receive one through the post, or has that time passed c) could it be worse than a PF and result in a prosecution.

TL;DR On DLR, forgot to touch in Oyster PAYG, not charged PF - will anything further happen?

 

[W-on-Sea]

Where did you change from the tube to the DLR? You don't generally need to touch in when changing from one to the other, if you are doing so within the same station (ie Monument/Bank, Stratford, West Ham, Canning Town).
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On the other hand, if you had touched out from the underground before entering the DLR (eg by walking from Tower Hill to Tower Gateway, or from Bow Church to Bow Road, or from Canary Wharf Jubilee Line to any of the nearby DLR stations), that is a different matter.

 

[damo44]

On the other hand, if you had touched out from the underground before entering the DLR (eg by walking from Tower Hill to Tower Gateway

I don't want to go into detail about which stations,dates etc - but it was one where I had touched out from of an Underground station walked at street level before entering the DLR.

I definitely was in the wrong, although not with any intent to defraud.

 

[DasLunatic]

If you haven't done this before, you might have got incredibly lucky. TfL keep a log of fare jumpers and if you're not on their database, chances are they may let you have this one. If you have, await TfL's letter. It'll probably go to court or you'll get something through the post within the next fortnight or so.

 

[damo44]

If you haven't done this before, you might have got incredibly lucky.

No, never done anything like this before. In over 30+ years of train travel I have never traveled a single mile without a valid ticket

 

[najaB]

If you have, await TfL's letter. It'll probably go to court or you'll get something through the post within the next fortnight or so.

In order for a letter to arrive, TfL would need an address. Since it was a PAYG Oyster card, even if it is registered the inspector would've needed to take down address details at the time. I don't expect the OP has anything to worry about - other than remembering to tap in/out in future.

 

[matt_world2004]

Did they take your details?

 

[najaB]

Did they take your details?

Convinced that (s)he would (legitimately) charge me a penalty fare I remained on the train for a couple more stops assuming that the inspector would return to take down my details. Nothing further was said.

It would appear not.

 

[damo44]

Did they take your details?

No details were taken

Since it was a PAYG Oyster card, even if it is registered the inspector would've needed to take down address details at the time.

Thanks, I had wondered whether they would have just sent it to the address registered to the Oyster card

I don't expect the OP has anything to worry about - other than remembering to tap in/out in future.

Absolutely, next time I will make sure I will and try to be more alert and seek out an Oyster reader at any non-gated station

 

[najaB]

Thanks, I had wondered whether they would have just sent it to the address registered to the Oyster card

No. PAYG cards are transferable, so there's nothing to say you hadn't loaned it to someone else. So they would have needed to take your details at the time.

 

[MikeWh]

Have you checked your journey history online? It's possible that the missing touch has been filled in for you.

 

[bb21]

To be fair to the OP, it is incredibly easy to forget to tap in on the DLR network, especially if one were distracted by other matters. I have personally done it several times at Canary Wharf, only to thankfully realise it before boarding the train, and had to go back downstairs to touch in.

As others said, nothing to worry about this time, but be extra careful in the future.

 

[Realfish]

To be fair to the OP, it is incredibly easy to forget to tap in on the DLR network, especially if one were distracted by other matters. I have personally done it several times at Canary Wharf, only to thankfully realise it before boarding the train, and had to go back downstairs to touch in.

As others said, nothing to worry about this time, but be extra careful in the future.

Me too. Easy done. I ran upstairs when I heard a DLR train approaching at Heron Quay. Luckily doors were closing when I got to the platform...only then did I realise I'd forgotten to tap in. I think that the problem was that the readers there are tucked away in a common area at ground level, under the platforms, not at the entry to each platform, or at the foot of the stairs.

As a once in every few years user I'm not sure if this is typical of other stations on the DLR, the other one I used that week-end was Royal Albert and the reader there was certainly at the entry to the stairs and quite obvious.

 

[hassaanhc]

To be fair to the OP, it is incredibly easy to forget to tap in on the DLR network, especially if one were distracted by other matters. I have personally done it several times at Canary Wharf, only to thankfully realise it before boarding the train, and had to go back downstairs to touch in.

As others said, nothing to worry about this time, but be extra careful in the future.

I've also managed to forget at Canary Wharf. In the main concourse the Oyster standalone validators are clustered around the viaduct pillars and not near the stairs. On that occasion I'd actually taken my seat in the train for Stratford before I realised, so ran down to touch in and back upstairs again to get it just before it departed. At Canary Wharf P1 you can also take a short cut [*] between the main concourse and the shopping centre which takes you into the Compulsory Ticket Area.

[*] Not sure about how useful it is or if it even saves any time ​

I forgot to touch in at Cyprus once, only remembering while changing at Canning Town. Both Cyprus and Beckton Park (which have a 99.9% identical layout) the validators are around a corner once you reach the bottom of the stairs, and I was distracted by buying my brother a travelcard (after he'd managed to lose his Oyster again). So at Canning Town I used his travelcard to go out of the barriers and then touch in using my Oyster card, a very risky move in hindsight .

 

[Antman]

OK, so this a little different to most threads in this sub-forum.

A few weeks ago I was travelling on the DLR in Zone 2 with a PAYG Oyster. It was my 2nd journey of the day (1st was Z1 to Z2) and was the 2nd of around 15 tube, DLR and bus journeys I made that day.

I heard a ticket inspector walking through the DLR train, and after a quick mental recap I couldn't recall touching in between leaving the underground and entering the DLR. When approached by the inspector I told him/her that I thought I'd forgotten to touch in. (S)he checked the card, confirmed that I'd forgotten to touch in and then walked away.

Convinced that (s)he would (legitimately) charge me a penalty fare I remained on the train for a couple more stops assuming that the inspector would return to take down my details. Nothing further was said.

I was surprised that I wasn't charged a penalty fare on the spot. The only explanation I could have given was I'd only previously used Oyster at a physical gate, or passing a bus driver, not at an ungated station. I would have accepted a penalty fare (albeit annoyed at myself for being so dozy at not looking for the Oyster reader when I got on the DLR).

Questions are a) why wasn't I given a PF on the spot b) will I receive one through the post, or has that time passed c) could it be worse than a PF and result in a prosecution.

TL;DR On DLR, forgot to touch in Oyster PAYG, not charged PF - will anything further happen?

This seems to be normal practice on the DLR, I've often heard them just ask the passenger to get off at the next station and touch in

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, never done anything like this before. In over 30+ years of train travel I have never traveled a single mile without a valid ticket

You've done well there, then, as while I don't do so intentionally I certainly have, when in a hurry, forgotten my ticket or bought the wrong one by mistake. Not often, but I've done it.

It's one reason I like barriers - Railcards aside, they are a safety net that reduce the chance of you unintentionally getting into the position of travelling without a valid ticket.

 

[damo44]

Since it was a PAYG Oyster card, even if it is registered the inspector would've needed to take down address details at the time.

Thank you, this is very reassuring.
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Have you checked your journey history online? It's possible that the missing touch has been filled in for you.

As soon as it became apparent that the inspector had no interest in talking to me again, I got off the train at the next station, touched in and got on the next train to resume my journey. That's what appears on my history.
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You've done well there, then, as while I don't do so intentionally I certainly have, when in a hurry, forgotten my ticket or bought the wrong one by mistake. Not often, but I've done it.

It's something that I've always been ultra careful about. Always checking that I've got my ticket, pass or permit to travel before boarding. If I'm running late I won't chance trying to buy a ticket on board, or just do a short hop without one. It's far easier to explain to my boss why I'm a few minutes late for work rather than explain it to an RPI and/or Magistrate. If a PTT machine is out of action I even go to the trouble of taking a photo of it just in case I need to prove it.

It's one reason I like barriers - Railcards aside, they are a safety net that reduce the chance of you unintentionally getting into the position of travelling without a valid ticket.

So do I. While I clearly made sure I had my Oyster on my person, I hadn't yet got into the habit of actively seeking out a yellow reader which, in this instance, was lurking behind a very wide pillar.
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This seems to be normal practice on the DLR, I've often heard them just ask the passenger to get off at the next station and touch in

Do you think this is because there's a recognition that it's so easy to forget to touch in on DLR, or for some other reason?

 

[bengley]

I don't think DLR PSAs can give Penalty fares. If it were an inspector, you would have been given one, for sure.

 

[themeone]

This seems to be normal practice on the DLR, I've often heard them just ask the passenger to get off at the next station and touch in

Yes that's interesting, and I don't think it's normal practice on the trams which are also ungated.

The problem I've had with validators is the whole thing is rather fleeting and I don't always know what's meant to happen to indicate a successful touch-in e.g. how it beeps, what colour the light turns etc.

It's very easy to touch in unsuccessfully and proceed on your way thinking all's well, and then get stopped. This happened to me on the trams when I'd touched in with only 20p on my Oyster and got penalty fared. Their argument was the validator would have told me there was a problem (which it probably did) but it's all over so fast, and if you're not expecting a problem you don't really look for one.

Another incident more recently: I touched in at a validator at West Ham, but had the feeling it hadn't worked. I was reluctant to try again (in case it had worked, and a second touch-in confused the whole system) so went on my way. I was changing to Overground at Canada Water and realised I could touch the pink validator there, which if my West Ham touch-in had failed, would serve as an entry touch-in charging the same fare. Then when I looked at my statement next day, it seemed it all worked fine at West Ham.

 

[damo44]

I don't think DLR PSAs can give Penalty fares. If it were an inspector, you would have been given one, for sure.

What's a CSA's role when it comes to checking tickets/Oysters and how can you tell which is which - different uniforms?

 

[transmanche]

What's a CSA's role when it comes to checking tickets/Oysters and how can you tell which is which - different uniforms?

A lot of RCIs on TfL don't wear uniforms.

 

[dviner]

I touched in at a validator at West Ham, but had the feeling it hadn't worked. I was reluctant to try again (in case it had worked, and a second touch-in confused the whole system)

I don't use Oyster, but I'm curious about what is supposed happen if you touch in, then touch in again at the same validator straight afterwards.

 

[sheff1]

It's one reason I like barriers - Railcards aside, they are a safety net that reduce the chance of you unintentionally getting into the position of travelling without a valid ticket.

Barriers (or to be precise, barrier staff) have, on various occasions, attempted to prevent me travelling with a valid ticket. If I were to travel without a valid ticket due my own actions/omissions then I must bear the consequences. I object strongly to someone attempting to stop me travelling with a valid ticket, especially when there are no apparent adverse consequences for such people inventing spurious reasons as to why I cannot travel.

 

[bb21]

It's very easy to touch in unsuccessfully and proceed on your way thinking all's well, and then get stopped. This happened to me on the trams when I'd touched in with only 20p on my Oyster and got penalty fared. Their argument was the validator would have told me there was a problem (which it probably did) but it's all over so fast, and if you're not expecting a problem you don't really look for one.

I may be getting confused here but does the "one more journey" feature not work on the tram then?

 

[35B]

I don't use Oyster, but I'm curious about what is supposed happen if you touch in, then touch in again at the same validator straight afterwards.

It squawks! I did it at Barking when changing trains there a few weeks ago. I got a bleep and then a message saying if already checked in.

 

[MikeWh]

I may be getting confused here but does the "one more journey" feature not work on the tram then?

It might do, but the incident described may be before the feature was introduced as part of the cashless buses. Then again, trams are not cashless and do have payment/topup facilites at each tramstop, so it might not apply.

 

[Be3G]

Nothing I've read anywhere from TfL has ever mentioned ‘one more journey’ working on anything other than buses.

 

[causton]

This happened to me on the trams when I'd touched in with only 20p on my Oyster and got penalty fared. Their argument was the validator would have told me there was a problem (which it probably did) but it's all over so fast, and if you're not expecting a problem you don't really look for one.

Look for one then! I always do as I never trust validators. The beeps do sound different, the successful one definitely sounds positive and the unsuccessful one definitely sounds negative. It also says on the screen ENTER which is pretty hard to confuse with Seek Assistance

Another incident more recently: I touched in at a validator at West Ham, but had the feeling it hadn't worked. I was reluctant to try again (in case it had worked, and a second touch-in confused the whole system) so went on my way. I was changing to Overground at Canada Water and realised I could touch the pink validator there, which if my West Ham touch-in had failed, would serve as an entry touch-in charging the same fare. Then when I looked at my statement next day, it seemed it all worked fine at West Ham.

A second touch-in will give you a code 21 error and says "Card used already" so it's easy to know if you already have touched on it
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It might do, but the incident described may be before the feature was introduced as part of the cashless buses. Then again, trams are not cashless and do have payment/topup facilites at each tramstop, so it might not apply.

Indeed, can't see any reason why One more journey would work on the trams as they have ticket machines - otherwise why not introduce it at quiet stations with only one machine etc in case the machine doesn't work there? :P

 

[themeone]

I may be getting confused here but does the "one more journey" feature not work on the tram then?

It certainly wasn't offered as an option!

I guess I've learned the hard way you really need your wits about you with validators, and I'm pretty careful with them now, as I know how easy it is to get caught out.

 

[Mojo]

It certainly wasn't offered as an option!

There is no option. It happens automatically if you meet the criteria.