Bags on seats

[IanKR]

No bike spaces on anything operating on Great Northern for starters. I think it's the same throughout most of the south east.

The 376 Electrostars run by Southeastern have the facility for bikes if the flip-up seats at either end of the end cars of each unit are flipped up. They include clip-belts for securing. Each bike so stored puts all three seats out of use. I've witnessed some choice language and angry stares (and worse) when people board an already crowded train in rush hour and find three seats put out of use by a bike.

 

[trainophile]

The 376 Electrostars run by Southeastern have the facility for bikes if the flip-up seats at either end of the end cars of each unit are flipped up. They include clip-belts for securing. Each bike so stored puts all three seats out of use. I've witnessed some choice language and angry stares (and worse) when people board an already crowded train in rush hour and find three seats put out of use by a bike.

A good enough reason for there being a charge for bikes, to be related to how many seats they will put out of action.

 

[bramling]

A good enough reason for there being a charge for bikes, to be related to how many seats they will put out of action.

Wouldn't actually solve the problem though - even if you did pay 3 extra fares (equivalent to the seats taken up), and had a ticket fixed to the bike to demonstrate you had done this, you'd still get the evil stares / rude comments previously mentioned.

Some people don't seem to be able to grasp that (where no reservations exist) space on a train is first-come-first-served. If you board a train and there isn't space to sit down or stand, it's a simple matter of waiting for another train. Children also take up space and pay reduced or zero fares - let's charge them full fare.

 

[bussnapperwm]

Wouldn't actually solve the problem though - even if you did pay 3 extra fares (equivalent to the seats taken up), and had a ticket fixed to the bike to demonstrate you had done this, you'd still get the evil stares / rude comments previously mentioned.

Some people don't seem to be able to grasp that (where no reservations exist) space on a train is first-come-first-served. If you board a train and there isn't space to sit down or stand, it's a simple matter of waiting for another train. Children also take up space and pay reduced or zero fares - let's charge them full fare.

Hear hear...and no railcard discounts either!

The number of times I've seen kids sitting down on busy trains...make them stand!

 

[sheff1]

People really should know better than to be as foolish so as to try teserving a seat or buying a ticket for a bag.

But some guards announce that if bags are not removed from seats then the owner will be charged for an extra ticket. It is therefore logical, and not at all foolish, for passengers hearing that to think that they can by an extra ticket for their bag,

 

[CC 72100]

But some guards announce that if bags are not removed from seats then the owner will be charged for an extra ticket. It is therefore logical, and not at all foolish, for passengers hearing that to think that they can by an extra ticket for their bag,

Especially when you consider the Virgin comments on it that while we think they are joking, people less familiar with their way of doing things may not be so convinced that it is a joke.

 

[Flamingo]

Seats are for bums, not bags. I personally don't care how many tickets or reservations a person has, as far as I'm concerned, if there is somebody standing, the bag is moved off the seat (as a ticket does not entitle one to a seat, and if somebody is not sitting in a reserved seat, that seat is now available). If need be, I will move the luggage myself, as it is causing an obstruction to a seat (I'm allowed to, I'm in a uniform). If the passenger objects, they can join the luggage wherever I manage to find space for it, or the platform if they prefer. I've had plenty of arguments of the "That's my seat" variety, but never heard about any of the letters or e-mails that have threatened to be been sent, and I have the satisfaction of seeing passengers who have bought tickets sitting when they expected to stand (as I always go and find someone standing when I need to free seats).

There is nothing I find more selfish than somebody putting their bags on seats to obstruct them. Yesterday, I was on a fairly busy train travelling to pick up another train, when a family of three boarded and saw that a fourth seat was reserved at their table from the next stop. They said "Lets put all our bags on that seat and spread all over the table, it'll stop anyone else from wanting to sit there". At the next station I was delighted when a chap gets on, says "That's my seat", waited for them to move their bags, and then proceeded to get a laptop out and use some of the table!

 

[alxndr]

What bothers me most about the Virgin comment is not the tongue-in-cheek statement about the possibility of a bag buying a ticket, but rather the implication that a ticket warrants a seat.

Although I suppose "unless the bag has paid for its own seat and holds a seat reservation" is less of a witty remark...

 

[trainophile]

Some people don't seem to be able to grasp that (where no reservations exist) space on a train is first-come-first-served. If you board a train and there isn't space to sit down or stand, it's a simple matter of waiting for another train. Children also take up space and pay reduced or zero fares - let's charge them full fare.

Hard luck if you have to get on a good way into the route, so that inevitably all the seats are taken by the "first comers". In the case of commuting in London, it would be worth living further out and having a longer journey in order to get on at the start of a service.

 

[IanKR]

... In the case of commuting in London, it would be worth living further out and having a longer journey in order to get on at the start of a service.

Or remain living where you are, and get an earlier train in the other direction for enough stops to be able to get a train back in the right direction that has seats on it (I know folk who do this). For me, this would mean, for example, travelling Eltham - Barnehurst - Charing Cross on my morning commute (and needing a Z1-6 TC to boot, instead of Z1-4). For me, it's not THAT big a deal, but some folk do it. Someone else I know travels home in the evening WAE-CHX-ELW, and by judicious use of Realtime Trains doesn't need to get off the train at CHX.

 

[Flamingo]

Wouldn't actually solve the problem though - even if you did pay 3 extra fares (equivalent to the seats taken up), and had a ticket fixed to the bike to demonstrate you had done this, you'd still get the evil stares / rude comments previously mentioned.

Some people don't seem to be able to grasp that (where no reservations exist) space on a train is first-come-first-served. If you board a train and there isn't space to sit down or stand, it's a simple matter of waiting for another train. Children also take up space and pay reduced or zero fares - let's charge them full fare.

Children on zero fares are not supposed to occupy a seat that may be required by a fare-paying passenger. (You try saying that to some mothers - Twitter will explode, and Mumsnet will declare a fatwa on the TOC...)

 

[westv]

I was travelling on the train with an old bag on the seat next to me. A fellow gets on and says "Can I have that seat please?". I agreed so my mother in law sat somewhere else.

 

[Welshman]

I was travelling on the train with an old bag on the seat next to me. A fellow gets on and says "Can I have that seat please?". I agreed so my mother in law sat somewhere else.

Contrary to popular belief, Les Dawson is alive and well and a member of this forum.

 

[reb0118]

Children on zero fares are not supposed to occupy a seat that may be required by a fare-paying passenger. (You try saying that to some mothers - Twitter will explode, and Mumsnet will declare a fatwa on the TOC...)

I have already been reported to mumsnet for my "personal prams policy"

With regard to children sitting when full fare paying adults are standing I make the following announcement:-

Ladies & gentlemen. It is a sad fact of life that I have to make the following announcement but as you are no doubt aware the train is rather busy I do apologize for the inconvenience that this causes to your journey today but there are small things that we can all do to help our fellow travellers. Firstly, any passengers who have items of luggage, coats, &/or newspapers on any empty seats beside them - please remove these now and place them in the overhead racks - this will allow standing passengers to take a seat.

Secondly, ladies & gentlemen when I was a child my parents would never dream of allowing my sitting whilst full paying passengers were standing. Small children can easily be placed on their parent's knee.

Thank you.

I could point out that most children travelling with their parents will be on free "kids go free" tickets but that may be a bit cheeky.

 

[matt_world2004]

I have already been reported to mumsnet for my "personal prams policy"

With regard to children sitting when full fare paying adults are standing I make the following announcement:-



I could point out that most children travelling with their parents will be on free "kids go free" tickets but that may be a bit cheeky.

I hope you make an announcement too that people travelling on concessionary or reduced price staff tickets should stand too. I hate kids with a passion would never but would never dream of telling them to stand because at the end of the day they are customers too even if they are travelling on a free ticket. Most children get free tickets are on the proviso of a full fare paying adult. Effectively the tickets are buy one get one free as such they have just as much right to a seat to everyone else. Also the child may have an disability, an unseen disability that can make standing in a moving vehicle very difficult and announcements like that would only humiliate them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Children on zero fares are not supposed to occupy a seat that may be required by a fare-paying passenger. (You try saying that to some mothers - Twitter will explode, and Mumsnet will declare a fatwa on the TOC...)

How do you identify a zero fares child over a fare paying child?

 

[reb0118]

...children........have just as much right to a seat to everyone else.

Actually is seems that even mumsnet disagrees with you. TBF if you read my post above you will notice that whilst I instruct passengers to remove luggage from seats I merely suggest, appealing to their better nature, that parents instruct their offspring to give up their seats to their elders & betters. It is called good manners.

Also the child may have an disability, an unseen disability, that can make standing in a moving vehicle very difficult and announcements like that would only humiliate them.

Oh dear how sad.

Again, I am in no doubt that any parent of a disabled child will be able to judge what their child is capable of in any given circumstance. We do not have to wrap people up in cotton wool.

 

[Starmill]

I'm confused, what do the people on Mumsnet mean by 'ds'? Lots of different people seem to say it.

 

[JaJaWa]

Could I use a Friends & Family Railcard?

If Virgin are saying that bags are entitled to seats if they have a ticket, and the wording on child tickets has been changed to "Under 16 year old", then surely a child ticket would suffice for a bag produced less than 16 years ago, which combined with a Family & Friends Railcard could allow a saving to made.

I'm confused, what do the people on Mumsnet mean by 'ds'? Lots of different people seem to say it.

http://www.mumsnet.com/info/acronyms

"DS: darling/dear son"

Now I know that Virgin adopt a bit of a tongue in cheek style with their publicity sometimes

What next? An thread with outrage about Virgin's "no teleporting" policy?

 

[IanKR]

I'm confused, what do the people on Mumsnet mean by 'ds'? Lots of different people seem to say it.

It's a Merkin import. ds = darling son; dd = darling daughter; etc.

 

[Flamingo]

I hope you make an announcement too that people travelling on concessionary or reduced price staff tickets should stand too. I hate kids with a passion would never but would never dream of telling them to stand because at the end of the day they are customers too even if they are travelling on a free ticket. Most children get free tickets are on the proviso of a full fare paying adult. Effectively the tickets are buy one get one free as such they have just as much right to a seat to everyone else. Also the child may have an disability, an unseen disability that can make standing in a moving vehicle very difficult and announcements like that would only humiliate them.



How do you identify a zero fares child over a fare paying child?

NRCoC page 7 http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/NRCOC.pdf

. Up to two children under five years of age may travel free of charge with a passenger holding a ticket or other authority to travel. However, children under five years of age who are travelling free may only occupy a seat which is not required by a passenger holding a ticket or appropriate authority to travel.

They can easily be identified by the guard asking the adult travelling with them where is the child's ticket.

 

[infobleep]

Are there any trains which don't have a dedicated space for at least two? If you put more cycle space in, then you'll have to take out space for seats and have complaints from people who are having to stand. Generally most stations these days have adequate nearby facilities to park a bicycle.

There are but on South West Trains at least they are still banned from some stations even with the space made available.

 

[matt_world2004]

Actually is seems that even mumsnet disagrees with you. TBF if you read my post above you will notice that whilst I instruct passengers to remove luggage from seats I merely suggest, appealing to their better nature, that parents instruct their offspring to give up their seats to their elders & betters. It is called good manners.

Why does age make a person their better? and you didn't answer my question on whether you make the announcement telling people on concessionary staff tickets to stand

Oh dear how sad.

Again, I am in no doubt that any parent of a disabled child will be able to judge what their child is capable of in any given circumstance. We do not have to wrap people up in cotton wool.

Except that you are humiliating them into making their kid stand by doing that announcement. If the parent believes the child should stand let the parent make that choice don't embarrass them into forcing their child to stand.

 

[Flamingo]

A child of under five can, in most cases, sit on the parents lap without discomfort to either.

 

[westv]

It's a Merkin import. ds = darling son; dd = darling daughter; etc.

Someone pass a bucket, I feel quite ill!

 

[matt_world2004]

A child of under five can, in most cases, sit on the parents lap without discomfort to either.

Then good customer service would be to discretly have a word with the parent pointing to a specific customer and asking if a child could vacate that seat for the customer. Most children that age unless they have a genuine need to sit will not remain in the seat long anyway.

 

[Flamingo]

Then good customer service would be to discretly have a word with the parent pointing to a specific customer and asking if a child could vacate that seat for the customer. Most children that age unless they have a genuine need to sit will not remain in the seat long anyway.

On a busy eight carriage Saturday and Sunday train? How much time do you think a guard has on their hands?

 

[matt_world2004]

On a busy eight carriage Saturday and Sunday train? How much time do you think a guard has on their hands?

Then in sure in the guards job description it has "the ability to prioritise tasks" and that telling 4 year olds to not sit down would not be a priority.

 

[Flamingo]

Then in sure yin the guards job description it has "the ability to prioritise tasks" and that telling 4 year olds to not sit down would not be a priority.

clearing seats for fare-paying passengers is. Do you expect me to walk through telling each passenger individually the stopping pattern of the train and safety announcement?

 

[bb21]

Then good customer service would be to discretly have a word with the parent pointing to a specific customer and asking if a child could vacate that seat for the customer. Most children that age unless they have a genuine need to sit will not remain in the seat long anyway.

How would you do that discreetly on a busy train then? I am interested to hear your ideas.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Except that you are humiliating them into making their kid stand by doing that announcement. If the parent believes the child should stand let the parent make that choice don't embarrass them into forcing their child to stand.

If a parent wishes to make that choice, they can make it by purchasing a ticket for the child. If they have not done so, a seat is only available to the child if nobody else needs it.