Edinburgh- London line

[Stanley Place]

Can anyone tell me the percentage of electrified trains using the line into Edinburgh?

 

[me123]

I'm pretty certain we could, can we have a bit more information though?

I'm assuming you're looking at the East Coast Mainline, am I right? Or are you interested in through trains from Euston via the West Coast Mainline?

Are you just looking at passenger trains running the full length of the journey between King's Cross and Edinburgh, or are you interested in the huge number of services on the same line between other stations (for example, other Cross-country services between Edinburgh and Doncaster, local services between Edinburgh and Dunbar, etc). What about freight?

Assuming that you're looking at services operated by Virgin Trains East Coast running from London King's Cross to Edinburgh Waverley (and beyond), services are diagrammed as follows:

Monday-Friday timetable
19 Northbound services between London and Edinburgh. (20 on Friday).
7 services are diagrammed as HST (Diesel train) (=36.8%, or =35% on Friday)
Of these, four services must be formed by diesel trains as they continue on non-electrified lines (three to Aberdeen, one to Inverness).
Therefore 3 services are formed by diesels running "under the wires" (=15.7%, or =15% on Fridays).

Monday-Friday Southbound
21 Southbound services between Edinburgh and London
Again, 7 services diagrammed as HST (=33.3%)
Again, four of these services start North of Edinburgh, and have need for diesel trains.
Therefore three services a day run from Edinburgh to London entirely "under the wires" . (=14.3%).

(The imbalance in North/South services is balanced by traffic not running the full length of the line).

I'm not looking at weekends here, and there are certainly more diesel trains running under the wires on the ECML (as mentioned; freight train operating companies, Crosscountry, and Transpennine Express represent just three of the many operators on the ECML who operate diesel trains).

FWIW, I've gathered my information by looking at the current VTEC timetable, and the HST diagrams on the 125 group website (which is correct as of the last timetable). This information is only as accurate as that information, and of course can vary on a day-to-day basis depending on operational requirements.

Hope that's been helpful, but if you need any more specific information I'm sure we can help.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There are, of course, the EMUs via Bathgate, and Scotrail's EMUs via Carstairs and to North Berwick (some of which are through trains).
Plus the Highland sleeper to/from Euston (sometimes via the ECML).
That's on top of VT and TPE electric services via the WCML.

 

[iain-j]

Not all the North Berwick trains are EMU's, some I see passing are 170's (if I remember correctly, might be 158's) which I think are services that didn't start at Waverley.

 

[najaB]

Not all the North Berwick trains are EMU's, some I see passing are 170's (if I remember correctly, might be 158's) which I think are services that didn't start at Waverley.

Really? I thought it was all Class 380s now.

 

[me123]

Can't say for certain, but definitely trains that started West of Waverley should be formed by Class 380s - or at least, they're certainly diagrammed as 380s. 170s aren't regularly worked into Glasgow Central, and 158s aren't there too often now either. As such, I'd expect trains going to/from Glasgow to be more likely to be 380 worked.

 

[najaB]

As such, I'd expect trains going to/from Glasgow to be more likely to be 380 worked.

I know the through trains to Ayr are 380s.

 

[me123]

^Yeah. They pretty much have to be. It's the only stock that's common to both Edinburgh and Ayr. Aside from 156s, but they're only rated for 75mph of course, so wouldn't be able to run to the times of the 380 diagram.

 

[iain-j]

Really? I thought it was all Class 380s now.

It as a few weeks ago, myself and my partner were getting the North Berwick service from Haymarket to Wallyford and it was definitely a diesel of some sort. I remembered that much as its usually always 380's that run. it would have been probably either been the 17.43 or 18.41. May have been a stand in for some reason but was a diesel.

 

[najaB]

It as a few weeks ago, myself and my partner were getting the North Berwick service from Haymarket to Wallyford and it was definitely a diesel of some sort. I remembered that much as its usually always 380's that run. it would have been probably either been the 17.43 or 18.41. May have been a stand in for some reason but was a diesel.

Ah, the 1843 is timed for a 90mph diesel unit, all the rest are 100mph EMUs. Learn something new every day.

 

[me123]

^ I'd put money on it being the 18:41. I've just had a quick look at RealTimeTrains, which shows that that train is formed from an ECS from Cowdenbeath, and therefore MUST be diesel.

In fact, that train (2Y28) and its return working (2Y03) are booked as DMUs. I didn't know that there were any regular diesel workings to north Berwick, but that must be one. Learned something new today! (EDIT: Well, najaB beat me to it, but I still got there in the end!).

The other train could possibly be diesel too, but that would definitley be a substitution.

 

[AndrewR232]

^ I'd put money on it being the 18:41. I've just had a quick look at RealTimeTrains, which shows that that train is formed from an ECS from Cowdenbeath, and therefore MUST be diesel.

In fact, that train (2Y28) and its return working (2Y03) are booked as DMUs. I didn't know that there were any regular diesel workings to north Berwick, but that must be one. Learned something new today! (EDIT: Well, najaB beat me to it, but I still got there in the end!).

The other train could possibly be diesel too, but that would definitley be a substitution.

That took me by surprise the first time I was on it back in 2013. The guard confirmed it was a booked 170 and not a replacement. The same unit works the 0941 Glasgow Queen St to Aberdeen earlier in the day.

 

[cf111]

Can't say for certain, but definitely trains that started West of Waverley should be formed by Class 380s - or at least, they're certainly diagrammed as 380s. 170s aren't regularly worked into Glasgow Central, and 158s aren't there too often now either. As such, I'd expect trains going to/from Glasgow to be more likely to be 380 worked.

Are 170s cleared into Central?

 

[me123]

That took me by surprise the first time I was on it back in 2013. The guard confirmed it was a booked 170 and not a replacement. The same unit works the 0941 Glasgow Queen St to Aberdeen earlier in the day.

I've just worked it out, and what an interesting diagram that unit has:

06:33 Aberdeen - Glasgow Queen Street
09:41 Glasgow Queen Street - Aberdeen
12:50 Aberdeen - Inverurie
13:33 Inverurie - Aberdeen
14:04 Aberdeen - Edinburgh
16:46 Edinburgh - Cowdenbeath
17:39 Cowdenbeath - Haymarket ECS
18:41 Haymarket - North Berwick
19:26 North Berwick - Edinburgh
20:33 Edinburgh - Haymarket Depot ECS, via the Sub and Platform 0 at Haymarket

Pretty decent tour of Scotland all things considered!

 

[AndrewR232]

Are 170s cleared into Central?

I'm not sure, but it certainly never happens.

 

[me123]

Are 170s cleared into Central?

Apparently, yes they are. Although I imagine that a lot of the drivers there won't be trained on the units, so that's really more the stumbling point.

They certainly have been to Central. Here's a picture I found which is interesting for a few reasons:

• 170 into Central
• It's only two carriages (all of ours are three) - this was due to a problem with the middle coach, so the train was temporarily shortened whilst this was fixed - an ingenious solution.
  [*]The unit (now in its three carriage formation) is now awaiting refurbishment and entry into service with Southern Dyslexic moment - no it isn't.

Unsurprisingly, it was going to Edinburgh via Shotts, almost certainly driven by Edinburgh drivers I would imagine.

However, this is very much the exception. 170s are not booked to operate into Central regularly.

 

[jopsuk]

getting back to the ECML, if we're counting part-route how many GN services are there? Anyone care to take a count?

 

[me123]

Here you go. I'm not bored enough to count them