Tech's planning a massive Euro bash and needs help!

[Techniquest]

Hi all,

Well this trip is to be a bit different to my usual lot! For now I'll leave out the backstory of how it came about, but me and a norm mate are planning to do a big trip around Europe. The goal is to do 10 capitals in 6 days, preferably all by rail.

I had originally planned to do it on advance tickets, but 33056 (sorry if I've got the wrong username) on an Interrail trip report thread posted a link to the Global Interrail ticket which should cover what we want to do.

Not necessarily fussed about seeing all of the cities we do, after all London we've both done plenty of times/enough to not see it all but we're still counting it as we'll be on trains to, through and from it.

Tonight's commute home had me properly examining my winter 2012/13 Thomas Cook timetable, and it'll cover 4 in one day, 5 within 24 hours. All fine and good so far, but this is where I get stuck and need help.

Part of the plan involves a EuroNight sleeper from Berlin to Warsaw, but I vaguely remember hearing about sleeper services being withdrawn left, right and centre in Europe. I'm not even sure where to start looking yet on that lot, hopefully some of you can enlighten me!

Also, as we're both on budgets I'm not super fussed about berths but are they generally reasonably price? What's the best way to book such things?

I'm well aware a lot of trains need complusory reservations, France is the worst or most expensive I seem to recall. Where else do I really need to research?

What Thalys is like I'm well keen to find out, and Day 1's plan involves one from Brussels to Koln (en-route to Berlin). Any thoughts at all on what to expect?

After that we've got 25 minutes to connect onto a DB ICE to Berlin Hbf. That much I really like the sound of, as I've always wanted to go on one. Of course this is all part of only 1 plan, I'm slowly working on a good few plans at once. Reservations will be complusory on ICE services I assume?

I think I've planned roughly 40 minutes to connect into a EuroNight sleeper for a trip to Warsaw Centralna from Berlin Hbf. Would this be suffcient? I think that rolls in around 0330, and I don't think we're planning to do much there, so planning to then jump on the 0617 to Wien (Vienna) to get capital number 5.

From there I have yet to plan, but I believe Bratislava, Budapest, Praha (Prague) and Bern will also feature in the trip, hopefully then heading north through Luxembourg to get back to Brussels, possibly using the EuroCity train (EC52 comes to mind, I think I'm wrong though?) for convenience and of course for some CFL Class 3000 haulage from Luxembourg to Brussels!

Naturally, we're planning to use Eurostar between London and Brussels, and domestic rail to/from Hereford.

Including the questions above, any thoughts, ideas or anything whatsoever would be more than welcome! The trip isn't due to happen until spring/early summer 2016, so a ton of time to save money and get everything booked and planned! No time like the present to get started!

 

[Bald Rick]

A couple of tips:

Thalys is essentially a TGV, so expect the same in terms of layout and service.

Don't expect punctuality to be good. In my experience it's no better than over here on long distance services, except in Switzerland.

 

[Techniquest]

I had very little issues with timekeeping when I did the Netherlands, didn't do badly in Belgium or Luxembourg too for that matter in 2013.

It's worth bearing in mind though to allow extra time for connections, which I haven't yet.

I haven't done a TGV since, umm, when was it, 2002 I think so I barely remember it to be honest! So it's almost a new experience anyway
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Aha. The Trainline Europe (I wasn't planning to use it but that's the first thing Google brought up on my phone!) has told me on a Monday that it's IC 97 I was thinking of from Brussels to Basel (I'm guessing IC 96 or 98 for the other way) at 1233, which would get me to Bern with a 20 minute connection at Basel. 7 hours and 26 minutes on one train's a long time fair play! It looks like it's a fairly short journey to Bern from Basel, I think I'd be getting there at around 9pm which is more than late enough for getting to a hotel!

Only a 29 minute connection between Eurostar (0858 from St Pancras, which I'm not convinced that can be made from Hereford the same day) and IC 97 in Brussels though, which I'm not sure on.

 

[Gordon]

.

My several penn'orth:

First of all, German ICE services are walk-on. No res needed.

Standard journey time Bern - Basel is 55 minutes. There is a Swiss web site which will show you what sort of loco and how many coaches the train will have.

Your planned trip is a long way away. Who knows if some of the trains you plan to get will still be running.

Basel - Brussels is one of the few international routes left in Europe with traditional trains - not a safe bet for survival. It is the vestige of one of the old Trans Europ Express axes, which then became the Eurocity network. The route has gradually contracted in length and comfort level - the trains used to run to Chur and have catering etc, but catering is long since gone so its a long through journey without on board refreshment


TEE was created in the 1950s and survived until the late 1980s in its pure form - actually went on into the 90s but only piecemeal - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_Europ_Express


Electronic timetables in Europe are based on a programme/project called HAFAS which originated about 20 years ago as a computer project by students/research postgrads at Karlsruhe university. Most of the European railways use it as the basis for their online timetables.

Most people start by using the German railways version. This was the 'original and best' and mind-blowing when it first started, allowing one to specify a local bus stop on a back road in the middle of nowhere in Germany, or Mallaig - to Madrid, or as far east as southern Russia!

can be found by googling 'bahn.de'

http://www.bahn.de/p_en/view/index.shtml

bahn.de allows you to book most German originating journeys

I don't know if a Berlin - Warsaw sleeper still exists.




.

 

[Techniquest]

Thanks for your most helpful insight there. You've certainly made me realise how much volatile things are on the continent. Who knows indeed if any of the trains I've mention (Eurostar and the like should be OK I hope!) will be running next year!

It would be done this year, if it wasn't for the need to save up the money first, plus there's holiday time availability at work, fitting everything in around families etc. All being well we'll be off to Europe by May 2016, only 10 months away!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Oh yes, I keep seeing the train ferry from Rodby in my atlas, but a tunnel is planned (it's the Scheers and Wall atlas, and my German understanding is not amazing so I think that's what it says!) so I'll need to research that one as that would be an experience to enjoy, plus it will be a factor as to whether we get to Copenhaven or not!

 

[Glenmutchkin]

In 2013 a bunch of us did GCREC, 23 capital cities plus the Arctic Circle in 17 days. There is a massive planning thread somewhere around on this forum. I'm not sure how many of the sleepers that we used are still running.

We looked at Berlin-Warsaw overnight but at that stage you could only get seats overnight and as we would have had three of the four previous overnights on trains we decided against. in the end warsaw turned out to be too time consuming to fit in to the plan so it was one that we missed out.

The Baltic train ferry is an experience not to be missed. Our train from Stockholm to Copenhagen was late so we missed the train on which we had reservations and had to camp out in the onboard bar. On the ferry you have to leave the train but the boat is well fitted out.

 

[Muzer]

Thanks for your most helpful insight there. You've certainly made me realise how much volatile things are on the continent. Who knows indeed if any of the trains I've mention (Eurostar and the like should be OK I hope!) will be running next year!

It would be done this year, if it wasn't for the need to save up the money first, plus there's holiday time availability at work, fitting everything in around families etc. All being well we'll be off to Europe by May 2016, only 10 months away!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Oh yes, I keep seeing the train ferry from Rodby in my atlas, but a tunnel is planned (it's the Scheers and Wall atlas, and my German understanding is not amazing so I think that's what it says!) so I'll need to research that one as that would be an experience to enjoy, plus it will be a factor as to whether we get to Copenhaven or not!

I'd recommend buying a European Rail Timetable. They're the spiritual successor to the Thomas Cook timetables (they're compiled by many of the same people), and I've found them excellent (though I've never used the Thomas Cook timetables so I can't really compare them in that regard). My copy (dated June this year) does not list Berlin to Warsaw sleepers as far as I can see.

Are you talking about the ferry on the line between Lübeck and Copenhagen? I'd certainly recommend that, though it's a unit so you can't do heads out and get decent pictures sadly. It requires reservations during the summer months and it can really get rather busy so I'd recommend it anyway (it's a major international link with quite a short train (so it'll fit on the ferry!) that runs only once every two hours. It's certainly an experience!

 

[30907]

Start off by looking at www.Seat61.com. which is a mine of info.

The Berlin Warsaw overnight no longer runs, but you could count Berlin using the Köln Warsaw or Prague sleepers - timings will be different by 2016 though!

Hafas.de shows minimum connection time in Brussels as 17 or 18 minutes ex UK, so a connection into EC97 is fine, but you always need a plan B if there is a major incident anywhere.

Sleepers generally offer passholder supplements as well as inclusive prices, but the latter may be cheaper in the German network. In Poland and further East, this doesnt apply. Couchettes are good value, anyway, as the days of compartments you could stretch out in are largely past.

I likewise recommend the Puttgarden-Rodby train ferry, but bear in mind there is no longer a Copenhagen sleeper. There is a night train back to Hamburg this summer formed of IC3 units.
Or the Malmö-Berlin via the Sassnitz train ferry may still be running.

 

[radamfi]

If you haven't already done so, I would download the maps for each railway company you intend to use. If you have a smartphone or tablet, download the Eurail Interrail Rail Planner app which has most train times in Europe, accessible without an Internet connection. However, it is now possible to have mobile internet across Europe for 1 euro a day if you take advantage of the Orange Spain Go Europe tariff (SIM cards available on eBay) so I usually have real time train information when travelling across Europe. That doesn't work in Switzerland, but you can use Three UK there.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There's a detailed article on the Puttgarden-Rødby train ferry service in July Modern Railways, p81.
Basically the ICE-TDs are on their way out and will be replaced by DSB IC3s.
Only 1x4-car ICE-TD can use the ferry, while 2xIC3 could be used, increasing capacity quite a bit.
When I used the ICE service a couple of years ago it was sardine time from Hamburg to Nykøbing in Denmark where DSB added another unit.

I'd suggest you buy a new European Rail Timetable.
Many of the cross-border services have changed since 2012/13 (not usually for the better).
eg you can't do Berlin-Vienna direct any more (change at Prague), or Warsaw-Budapest on day trains (change at Břeclav).
Generally there are better medium distance services (eg Railjets) but poorer long distance services.
Poland and Slovenia now have particularly poor cross-border services.

 

[crehld]

Tonight's commute home had me properly examining my winter 2012/13 Thomas Cook timetable.

You might also find this software useful, with covers the whole of Europe (very useful for UK bashes too, save for the odd inaccuracy): http://www.oebb.at/en/Planning_your_trip/Timetable/Offline_timetable_version/index.jsp

Obviously it's only for this summer's timetable.

What Thalys is like I'm well keen to find out, and Day 1's plan involves one from Brussels to Koln (en-route to Berlin). Any thoughts at all on what to expect?

I hope you like red and purple! But generally very nice. You'll be able to charge your phone too if you bring an adapter with you.

Naturally, we're planning to use Eurostar between London and Brussels, and domestic rail to/from Hereford.

I'd highly recommend a CIV ticket to London to protect you in case of delays. Purchasing one from Eurostar direct will be cheaper than the walk up version.

Including the questions above, any thoughts, ideas or anything whatsoever would be more than welcome! The trip isn't due to happen until spring/early summer 2016, so a ton of time to save money and get everything booked and planned! No time like the present to get started!

Are you planning to step off the trains and explore a bit? You're going to some fantastic places and it'd be a shame if you were simply passing through!

 

[EAD]

Depending how many cities you are looking to cover off an length of journey, it may also be cheaper to book individual tickets (unless FIP discounts apply). There are a number of advanced discounts which like the UK tie you to a train, but bring good savings including cross border e.g. Sparscheine in Austria or Europaspezial from Germany.

 

[Techniquest]

A lot to think about there! I finished plan A from the timetable I have this morning. I should have it posted here later to be discussed, but it does sound like a lot of it is no longer valid at all anyway. The loss of the Berlin to Warsaw (I think that was one through to Moscow) sleeper will knock that plan into space

Good to hear the train-ferry is still running, getting to visit Denmark at long last would be nice. Plan B is being worked on at the moment, ending Day 1 in Amsterdam. I had a good stay at a hotel there (HEM Hotel IIRC) so that'll be useful.

I shall have a look shortly on Amazon for the European Rail Timetable, certainly worthy of investment to plan more accurately.

Not sure how long we're going to spend in cities yet. Some will be a longer visit than others, by Monday I should have the list from my mate of the ones he wants to do the most. My list of preferences across all of Europe are: Oslo, Copenhagen, Berlin, Bern and Prague. Even just a few hours to have a look around will do, a proper visit to any I really like can be done on a seperate trip.

Having pairs of IC3s will certainly help get us on board that train-ferry, not too worried about not being able to do heads-out, the experience is the main thing.

Anyone got hotel recommendations near stations in Bern, Prague or any other capital city for that matter? Amsterdam I have my preferred choice of HEM Hotel (best breakfast ever had on the continent!) but I'll certainly still welcome ideas there!

Plan A only featured the one sleeper from Berlin to Warsaw, but other plans may feature heavier use. Does anyone have good (or bad!) stories to share on European sleepers, and are couchettes/berths worth it?

Seat61.com will be getting a lot of looking at for sure!

I shall also investigate those online timetables in a bit too. Sorry I've not replied directly to everyone, I am certainly grateful for all the help!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Ordered the timetable from Amazon, got it for 14.04 with postage costs from one of the MarketPlace lot. Further comments to come next week when it arrives!

 

[Gordon]

I'd recommend buying a European Rail Timetable. They're the spiritual successor to the Thomas Cook timetables (they're compiled by many of the same people), and I've found them excellent (though I've never used the Thomas Cook timetables so I can't really compare them in that regard).

The European Rail Timetable is essentially exactly the same as the Thomas Cook version (I worked on it years ago) . Very little has changed apart from the cover and the name. Indeed the style of the timetable has stood the test of time as the style is basically the same as it has been for 100 years!

Incidentally my local Smiths still has two copies of the Winter 2012 edition with my photo on the front cover!

Are you talking about the ferry on the line between Lübeck and Copenhagen?

Puttgarden - Rodby is indeed fun. It is known as the Vogelfluglinie (Bird's Flight Line) as it follows a bird migration route and is so much faster and more direct than the longer ferry service that it replaced (Grossenbrode - Gedser) in 1963. It's building was accelerated by the post war division of Germany which put alternative routes to the ports further East 'off limits' to as they had become part of communist GDR, so a separate route was needed from Denmark to West Germany

I first did it in the 60s. Havent done it since it was loco hauled and the DB TEE /IC type stock was shunted on and off.

 

[Searle]

For planning, I didn't use a railway timetable, I just used the DB rail planner, and there's a super useful offline interrailing app out there.

For seat reservations, you're right in that France is the worst, and you should be expecting to pay upwards of £20 just for a seat reservation on Thalys. The whole of Germany is unreservable, but I would highly recommend reservations between Hamburg and Copenhagen, it was full and standing when I did it. Another notable example is trains between Berlin and Warsaw, which also cost over £20 just for the reservation, and is compulsary.

For reservations around France, check out SNCF Voyages (select rail passes on the left), and for anywhere else give Deutsche Bahn UK a call. They booked me any journey I wanted (even Belgrade - Budapest), and I received the tickets within 3 days (posted from Surbiton!).

You should be ok with most cities, but I found Prague is quite awkward to get to, unless you're coming from the east of Czech Republic. Good luck on the planning though.

Finally, this is probably the best map I've found for Europe. Well worth downloading and saving on your desktop for quick reference.

 

[Techniquest]

Thanks for the thoughts there, did you ever finish your trip report Searle?

I shall look for that app later (I think it's mentioned in this thread somewhere already), although I did try crehld's link last night but didn't work on my phone.

Is the photo on the cover of the 2012 timetable an OBB loco? If so I love that shot on the cover.

Good news to hear plenty of approval of the idea to do the train ferry, hopefully a plan will form to do it as neither of us will have ever done such a thing! I've emailed my mate a copy of Plan A last night, as well as a request for a list of cities he wants to do, so when the timetable arrives I should hopefully be able to crack on well soon.

That 20 quid reservation on Berlin to Warsaw, is that on all trains? If so that's quite some ching just for a reservation! Thalys I think will only be getting used as part of a through booking on Eurostar to Amsterdam or Koln, especially if it's heavily red and purple inside!

Fyra services I keep seeing in the timetable when looking at London to Brussels, what's the score these days with Fyra? Last time I looked in 2013 the new trains were there but not declared useable or whatever.

I'm also considering using SailRail to go to Amsterdam via Harwich and the ferry to Hook of Holland. It would need to be the overnight ferry realistically, but I haven't yet researched prices. If it's going to be a lot cheaper than Eurostar then I'm in. If not then Eurostar will win the day!

Finally for now, I recall months ago hearing about Eurostar going to run through services to Amsterdam in 2016. Does anyone have any up to date gen on that? It would certainly be a lot easier to plan this trip and much more convenient to avoid the connection in Brussels.

 

[MisterT]

Fyra services doesn't exist anymore. The new trains were a failure and taken out of service in two months after introduction.
The only train between Brussels and Amsterdam via the high speed route is Thalys at the moment, although I wouldn't recommend this train with Interrail or other passes, same thing applies with the high costs for reservations.
A normal Intercity service between Brussels and Amsterdam (reservation not possible) does run every hour, but it's not a high speed train.

Eurostar services to Amsterdam will be running from December 2016.

 

[Searle]

I tried to do it twice, and could never get past the first three days. Writing certainly isn't my forte

Most seat reservations are a matter of pounds, but there are a few that cost quite a lot. Those being some TGVs (they run out on our advance system), Thalys, Night Trains and the Berlin - Warsaw Express. There may be some more but I didn't come across them!

 

[30907]

That 20 quid reservation on Berlin to Warsaw, is that on all trains? If so that's quite some ching just for a reservation!

I'm also considering using SailRail to go to Amsterdam via Harwich and the ferry to Hook of Holland. It would need to be the overnight ferry realistically, but I haven't yet researched prices. If it's going to be a lot cheaper than Eurostar then I'm in. If not then Eurostar will win the day!

Finally for now, I recall months ago hearing about Eurostar going to run through services to Amsterdam in 2016. Does anyone have any up to date gen on that? It would certainly be a lot easier to plan this trip and much more convenient to avoid the connection in Brussels.

I am puzzled by the BWE supplement, as I thought it was just the reservation fee. Can anyone find a current link?

I'd certainly use Harwich Hoek if it fitted your timetable, and not just out of nostalgia for an Interrail I made in 1980 . It should be £45 plus berth (not expensive) to any station in NL. But from Hereford it may not be time efficient.

I wouldn't hold your breath WRT Eurostar to Amsterdam, and in any case you'd have to pay throughout. I gather passholder fares are poor value.

You will find Oslo a problem because you're out on a limb geographically!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Definatle have a look at Harwich - Hook , really good quality service and a mini-cruise. To get to Berlin you can pick up the 2 hourly Amsterdam - Berlin which is very "traditional" loco hauled (engine change at the Dutch border) , and as an interesting option change at Hanover for the 2 hourly DB "class 170" to Magdeburg via Wernigerode. The latter comes highly recomended as it is (a) a subsidiary route with semaphore signalling through an old industrial and (b) W/gerode has the superb Harz narrow gauge network. Magedburg is a shortish hop to Berlin where you will be spoilt for choice for everything - really commend Berlin - Prague- via Dresden - Czech LHCS with terrific (affordable) old school dining cars in the old style. Dresden - Prague through Saxon Switzerland is very scenic. (though worth a stopover at Dresden which has lots to see and do - son stayed in a hostel at Neustadt - opposite side to the city centre over the Elbe.

 

[30907]

And since this trip is about capitals, Hannover, Goslar, Magdeburg and Dresden have all been significant German capital cities at different times in the last millennium.
(The train also passes Bueckeburg, the capital of Schaumburg-Lippe, but that's really stretching a point)

 

[Techniquest]

Crikey this could take a while to reply to you all, so bear with me!

Fyra services doesn't exist anymore. The new trains were a failure and taken out of service in two months after introduction.
The only train between Brussels and Amsterdam via the high speed route is Thalys at the moment, although I wouldn't recommend this train with Interrail or other passes, same thing applies with the high costs for reservations.
A normal Intercity service between Brussels and Amsterdam (reservation not possible) does run every hour, but it's not a high speed train.

Eurostar services to Amsterdam will be running from December 2016.

Ah right, thanks for the gen. What a horrendously poor situation there, even HS1 gets better use than that!

I'll look into that Intercity service to Amsterdam, that could be the service I saw in Brussels when I was over there in 2013.

Shame about Eurostar not starting until December 2016, too late for my trip in this case at least.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I tried to do it twice, and could never get past the first three days. Writing certainly isn't my forte

Most seat reservations are a matter of pounds, but there are a few that cost quite a lot. Those being some TGVs (they run out on our advance system), Thalys, Night Trains and the Berlin - Warsaw Express. There may be some more but I didn't come across them!

Shame that, I was rather enjoying the read, and without a doubt it would have taught a lot of us enough to get us heading to Europe! I'd have certainly found it interesting and useful for planning this trip I'm going to do!

I think we're planning to avoid TGVs like the plague, same with France as much as we can too Thalys, it might come as part of a booking from St Pancras to Amsterdam Centraal or Berlin Hbf, but otherwise I have no desire to use it.

I shall be researching seat reservations like crazy nearer the booking phase, at the moment I'm focusing on booking the Ireland trip in September. That much is actually proving harder than thought, I reckon this 10 Capitals (only a working title!) could be easier to plan and book!

 

[Polrail]

The supplement for the BWE, to an InterRail pass, is 4.50 Euro.

If you want to do Berlin-Warsaw overnight, take a local DB train to Szczecin, and catch the Szczecin-Warsaw sleeper from there.

 

[Techniquest]

I am puzzled by the BWE supplement, as I thought it was just the reservation fee. Can anyone find a current link?

I'd certainly use Harwich Hoek if it fitted your timetable, and not just out of nostalgia for an Interrail I made in 1980 . It should be £45 plus berth (not expensive) to any station in NL. But from Hereford it may not be time efficient.

I wouldn't hold your breath WRT Eurostar to Amsterdam, and in any case you'd have to pay throughout. I gather passholder fares are poor value.

You will find Oslo a problem because you're out on a limb geographically!

If I find a link, I'll post it in this thread.

As there's two of us going, a 2-bed berth was £35 I think when I looked the other day. Or was it £39, not sure but I know it was £30-something!

Very reasonable fare really, although if we were going to go via Harwich it would be a million times easier if we can get through RailSail fares from Hereford. £49 one way each from London is still good though, plus an Advance with FGW at say £28, plus cabin at let's say £39 and of course a single on the Tube at say £2.50 each. £99 each (when splitting the cost of a cabin 50/50) from Hereford to Amsterdam, pending Advance fare availability and all that.

Let's compare that to going by Eurostar then, just out of curiosity. Taken ages due to serious lag today, but here we are:

Hereford to London Paddington Advance at £28
Tube single at £2.50
London St Pancras to Amsterdam at £55.50 (I looked it for 1st October, as far as it would let me look)

That comes to £86 each. Obviously when it comes to booking the Eurostar fares it might come down to a bit less than that at the time, but the difference is surprisingly small.

Yes we could fly over and fly back, but my mate is not a good flyer, especially with take-off and landing. There's also the hassle of driving to the airport, the car parking and stress and strain all that brought with it in November for the Sweden trip. Trains to/from the airport? Not too convenient with the times of flights most of the time, plus the ching is quite significant!

Good point on waiting for the Eurostar services, it could be well delayed. Passholder fares are almost pointless I'm told on Eurostar too, although we'd be booking Eurostar seperately for convenience.

Oslo, well I don't know, it is a bit out of the way, but it could be workable yet!

 

[radamfi]

Ah right, thanks for the gen. What a horrendously poor situation there, even HS1 gets better use than that!

I'll look into that Intercity service to Amsterdam, that could be the service I saw in Brussels when I was over there in 2013.

The high speed line between Breda, Rotterdam and Schiphol also has the Intercity Direct (Breda to Amsterdam) service every 30 minutes. There is also an hourly train between Antwerpen Centraal and Noordenkempen. So most of the high speed line has at least an hourly service excluding Thalys. About 20 km of the line only has Thalys. The Intercity Direct service normally carries a supplement between Rotterdam and Schiphol, but I wonder whether you pay this with an Interrail ticket?

This says you can also use the DB IC Bus services between Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany by only paying the reservation fee:

http://www.interrail.eu/interrail-passes/pass-benefits/benefits-netherlands

The Intercity service that ran before Fyra is slightly different to what runs now as it now goes via Brussels Airport using the new through line, which you may not have used if you haven't been to Belgium for a while.

 

[Techniquest]

Definatle have a look at Harwich - Hook , really good quality service and a mini-cruise. To get to Berlin you can pick up the 2 hourly Amsterdam - Berlin which is very "traditional" loco hauled (engine change at the Dutch border) , and as an interesting option change at Hanover for the 2 hourly DB "class 170" to Magdeburg via Wernigerode. The latter comes highly recomended as it is (a) a subsidiary route with semaphore signalling through an old industrial and (b) W/gerode has the superb Harz narrow gauge network. Magedburg is a shortish hop to Berlin where you will be spoilt for choice for everything - really commend Berlin - Prague- via Dresden - Czech LHCS with terrific (affordable) old school dining cars in the old style. Dresden - Prague through Saxon Switzerland is very scenic. (though worth a stopover at Dresden which has lots to see and do - son stayed in a hostel at Neustadt - opposite side to the city centre over the Elbe.

Very useful indeed that lot was, fair dos! The idea of a mid-journey loco change got me flailing here.

The DB version of a 170, are these the 643s? They're not bad little machines to be fair, had a trip on those out of Aachen during my The Three Countries trip.

I like the sound of doing Berlin to Prague via Dresden, sounds quite enjoyable!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The high speed line between Breda, Rotterdam and Schiphol also has the Intercity Direct (Breda to Amsterdam) service every 30 minutes. There is also an hourly train between Antwerpen Centraal and Noordenkempen. So most of the high speed line has at least an hourly service excluding Thalys. About 20 km of the line only has Thalys. The Intercity Direct service normally carries a supplement between Rotterdam and Schiphol, but I wonder whether you pay this with an Interrail ticket?

This says you can also use the DB IC Bus services between Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany by only paying the reservation fee:

http://www.interrail.eu/interrail-passes/pass-benefits/benefits-netherlands

The Intercity service that ran before Fyra is slightly different to what runs now as it now goes via Brussels Airport using the new through line, which you may not have used if you haven't been to Belgium for a while.

Good news on the high speed line getting used a fair bit after all.

I really need to get the English version of the European rail atlas, the Schweers + Wall one I have is in German and, while very useful, makes it difficult to work with. I see what you mean about the new through line at Brussels International Airport, it links with a line that appears to be marked as either under construction or out of use at the time at least. Didn't really realise how many tracks and curves there are in Brussels!

So much to do...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The supplement for the BWE, to an InterRail pass, is 4.50 Euro.

If you want to do Berlin-Warsaw overnight, take a local DB train to Szczecin, and catch the Szczecin-Warsaw sleeper from there.

Nice one, I think that might have to be done! Not too bad a supplement that, fair dos. Purchasable in advance or on the day?

Only one thing I need to ask of you all now, is there anywhere we should be avoiding? Any routes or cities really not worth doing? Also, we're not all that fluent on many languages, obviously we're going to make the effort to understand the signs, announcements and all that, I'll have some language packs downloaded for the translation app on my phone too. Is there anywhere we're really going to struggle?

 

[30907]

As long as you have Internet, this site is extremely useful for maps.

http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/maps.php

Back to SailRail, you can use a ticket to London International (LNE but not LOE on www.brfares.com ) in conjunction with this, which should include the tube.

Or you can go cross country to Peterborough which is the outer limit for GA, changing again at Manningtree for the buffet (closed Sunday nights).

Without looking, one of other might be good value.

 

[radamfi]

Here is the network map from Belgian Railways, showing all the new lines to/from the airport:

http://www.belgianrail.be/nl/klante...~/media/E30CAE91034C41108CBF9862E194D1F2.ashx

This table may be of interest (click on % English speakers to sort by that column). Generally, the further east and south you go, the less English speakers you get.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population

But I wouldn't worry too much about that. If you think about it, even people famous for speaking foreign languages well, such as the Dutch, are in the same boat as a native English speaker who only speaks English if they don't speak the local language. If it was really a show stopper, international tourism wouldn't be viable.

 

[30907]

Only one thing I need to ask of you all now, is there anywhere we should be avoiding? Any routes or cities really not worth doing? Also, we're not all that fluent on many languages, obviously we're going to make the effort to understand the signs, announcements and all that, I'll have some language packs downloaded for the translation app on my phone too. Is there anywhere we're really going to struggle?

Of the countries mentioned so far, Poland off the beaten track might be difficult, mainly because pronouncing placenames is fiendishly difficult IMO (Czech is a closely related language but easier to pronounce vaguely accurately). German is useful in Czech Republic. Older people in Eastern Germany often speak little English, and tourist stuff there is often German only. But AFAIK you aren't planning to go to remote places anyway.

Just try a few words in the local language and wait for them to reply in excellent English.

 

[Techniquest]

Cheers for the input gang, I shall examine that map more thoroughly later, I really need to get off the laptop for a bit and get some food first.

Good points indeed on the language barrier, as it's just the bigger places we're going to it should all be fine and good. I'm meeting up with my mate before we both start work tomorrow, so I'll be having a massive discussion about it all!