Trivia: Smallest plane transatlantic flights?

[jopsuk]

presumably pre-clearance requires passengers that have passed through to be kept separate from all other passengers? I'd have thought that's why Heathrow won't be interested.

 

[berneyarms]

presumably pre-clearance requires passengers that have passed through to be kept separate from all other passengers? I'd have thought that's why Heathrow won't be interested.

Yes absolutely - once you've passed through it you are on US soil effectively.

 

[freetoview33]

I would say Manchester is the best place in the UK for this as things stand. Although how long will the pre clearance last at Shannon, as the hours have been cut back already.

 

[stut]

Shannon pre-clearance is really a relic of the days when the bilateral agreements insisted on a proportion of flights to/from Ireland going through the airport (and usually dog-legging onwards to Dublin).

However, the LCY-JFK service wouldn't be nearly as attractive without it.

 

[berneyarms]

I would say Manchester is the best place in the UK for this as things stand. Although how long will the pre clearance last at Shannon, as the hours have been cut back already.

Shannon pre-clearance is really a relic of the days when the bilateral agreements insisted on a proportion of flights to/from Ireland going through the airport (and usually dog-legging onwards to Dublin).

However, the LCY-JFK service wouldn't be nearly as attractive without it.

The US preclearance covers all the other flights from Shannon every day so suggesting that it might not last is pushing things a bit.

There are seven flights a day using it.

Aer Lingus to Boston & New York JFK
American to Philadelphia
Delta to New York JFK
United to Newark and Chicago
BA to New York JFK (1st flight)

The 2nd BA flight is much much later than all of the others and hence missed the cut - it would need a second shift to cover just it.

 

[freetoview33]

The US preclearance covers all the other flights from Shannon every day so suggesting that it might not last is pushing things a bit.

There are seven flights a day using it.

Aer Lingus to Boston & New York JFK
American to Philadelphia
Delta to New York JFK
United to Newark and Chicago
BA to New York JFK (1st flight)

The 2nd BA flight is much much later than all of the others and hence missed the cut - it would need a second shift to cover just it.

Could the BA London City - New York JFK just make a stop off at Dublin rather than Shannon?

And what are the advantages of serving Shannon as well as Dublin?

 

[berneyarms]

Could the BA London City - New York JFK just make a stop off at Dublin rather than Shannon?

And what are the advantages of serving Shannon as well as Dublin?

Shannon probably gave them a better deal on landing charges.

While still semi-state, it's an independent airport now, no longer under the control of Dublin.

The Dublin pre-clearance would be closed by then too (17:15-18:00) in any case.

The last transatlantic flight leaves Dublin at 16:15.

 

[freetoview33]

Shannon probably gave them a better deal on landing charges.

While still semi-state, it's an independent airport now, no longer under the control of Dublin.

The Dublin pre-clearance would be closed by then too (17:15-18:00) in any case.

The last transatlantic flight leaves Dublin at 16:15.

If the IAG Aer Lingus deal does go through, I wouldn't be surprised if the BA flight did move to Dublin

 

[berneyarms]

If the IAG Aer Lingus deal does go through, I wouldn't be surprised if the BA flight did move to Dublin

Why?

Aer Lingus fly from Shannon too.

It's down to landing fees offered by the airports.

 

[freetoview33]

presumably pre-clearance requires passengers that have passed through to be kept separate from all other passengers? I'd have thought that's why Heathrow won't be interested.

Although surely it could be brought to Heathrow Terminal by Terminal Stating with T2 and T5 (Not T3 as this is due to be demolished once T2 is finished) Then T4 (If it is redeveloped)

 

[stut]

Not just landing fees, but it makes for a better experience for passengers on what is a very premium route. Nobody else is using the pre-clearance facility at the time, so it's nice and quiet. And BA can create their own mini-lounge in the gate area.

Dublin's not a bad airport, and the Gold Circle lounge is OK (assuming BA could use T2 for this) but it's not quite the same.

 

[freetoview33]

Not just landing fees, but it makes for a better experience for passengers on what is a very premium route. Nobody else is using the pre-clearance facility at the time, so it's nice and quiet. And BA can create their own mini-lounge in the gate area.

Dublin's not a bad airport, and the Gold Circle lounge is OK (assuming BA could use T2 for this) but it's not quite the same.

Just thought if IAG do get with Aer Lingus they would upgrade facilities at Dublin so could be a nicer experience

 

[berneyarms]

Just thought if IAG do get with Aer Lingus they would upgrade facilities at Dublin so could be a nicer experience

I don't see any need - while Shannon has several transatlantic flights, it's a relatively quiet and hassle free airport - why move it to another airport where there are far more flights?

There is a business class lounge at Shannon also that can be used.

The facilities at Dublin (Gold Circle Club lounge) are good as it is - it's brand new.

 

[Western Lord]

If the IAG Aer Lingus deal does go through, I wouldn't be surprised if the BA flight did move to Dublin

The Shannon stop is a technical stop. You cannot buy a ticket from Shannon to New York on this service. There is , therefore, absolutely no reason to move it.

 

[ghYHZ]

Yes absolutely - once you've passed through it you are on US soil effectively.

Here in Canada….most of the major airports have US Pre-Clearance and the US Border Officials working here have limited powers. You might have been pre-cleared to enter the US….but you are far from being on US soil. I’m still fully protected by Canada’s Charter of Rights and Freedoms until that aircraft is up and away. If for some reason an arrest has to be made after a person has been pre-cleared, the US Official must request it from a Canadian Police Officer.

But Pre-Clearance is just so convenient. I regularly fly between Halifax and Boston. Lines are short here and it takes no time at all to Pre-Clear and when we arrive in Boston…..it’s at a Domestic gate. Just walk away….no further inspection required.

We also have Pre-Clearance at the Vancouver Station for trains going to Seattle and it is also planned for the Montreal Station shortly for trains to New York

 

[freetoview33]

"IAG's plans include building a new transatlantic hub at Dublin airport." Sounds like it would be good to reroute the service to Dublin from to Shannon.

 

[transmanche]

"IAG's plans include building a new transatlantic hub at Dublin airport." Sounds like it would be good to reroute the service to Dublin from to Shannon.

Why? As the return flight is non-stop, what advantage would there be (for airline or passenger) to switch the outbound stopover from Shannon to Dublin?

 

[freetoview33]

Why? As the return flight is non-stop, what advantage would there be (for airline or passenger) to switch the outbound stopover from Shannon to Dublin?

To make use of the new transatlantic hub at dublin

 

[transmanche]

Why? As the return flight is non-stop, what advantage would there be (for airline or passenger) to switch the outbound stopover from Shannon to Dublin?

To make use of the new transatlantic hub at dublin

And what tangible benefit would that give the airline or the passenger?

 

[BananaRepublic]

To make use of the new transatlantic hub at dublin

There is no commercial need to route via Dublin.
As already said, this is a premium service from London to JFK/EWR and is only making a tech stop at Shannon for fuel and no other reason.
The US immigration pre-clearance facility is just a bonus that happens to give a boost the the attractiveness and marketing of the service.

There are only 32 seats on the BA A318 used on the service and most of these seats are sold out of London City, otherwise it wouldn't make money.
A detour to stop at Dublin would add extra time (why pay a premium price for a longer flight?) and extra cost to the operation of the aircraft (higher route charges, airport, ground handling, passenger and luggage handling fees etc).
They'd have to leave space empty out of LCY if they were to sell tickets from Dublin, rendering the flight uneconomic for that first short leg and destroying the chance of even breaking even on the whole trip.

Then consider that there are many flights from Dublin to JFK/EWR, on larger aircraft with a range of cabin classes.
The commercial proposition of the BA flights is to offer a service to/from downtown London, avoiding the major airports outside of town (LHR & LGW), thus saving lots of time and hassle.
There would be no such differentiation compared with the regular flights out of Dublin.

In short, a stop at Dublin defeats the whole point of the product offering and would not be viable.