Authorised Southern penalty fare collectors

[Aasimuk]

Hello!

Just a quick questions for people in the know on here, are the Southern revenue protection officers able to charge penalty fares on behalf of South West Trains at the moment? as was told that currently no agreement exists between the two companies?

 

[MikeWh]

Hello!

Just a quick questions for people in the know on here, are the Southern revenue protection officers able to charge penalty fares on behalf of South West Trains at the moment? as was told that currently no agreement exists between the two companies?

I would be astounded if there was no agreement to work on each others behalf given that they share the busiest station in the UK (with London Overground).

 

[najaB]

Just a quick questions for people in the know on here, are the Southern revenue protection officers able to charge penalty fares on behalf of South West Trains at the moment? as was told that currently no agreement exists between the two companies?

I'm not a 'person in the know' but I'm pretty sure (s)he wouldn't have issued you the Penalty Fare if they weren't allowed to.

Next.

 

[tony6499]

Hello!

Just a quick questions for people in the know on here, are the Southern revenue protection officers able to charge penalty fares on behalf of South West Trains at the moment? as was told that currently no agreement exists between the two companies?

Who told you there was no agreement ?

 

[Aasimuk]

I asked a group of SWT Revenue Protection staff at Waterloo who had just got off a train I was on. They said they used to be an agreement between the two companies, but they had been unable to do it for a few months due to having no agreement. I thought it was a little strange, but the only agreement I can find on the internet stems from 2012.

 

[bb21]

Did you receive a Penalty Fare?

 

[Aasimuk]

I didn't receive one myself, but a lot of passengers at Epsom were, and they had all got off the same train as me. Was just wondering whether Southern could penalty fare these people, and made me look into it a little more on the internet.
One of those things that I end up going on and on to find information about!

 

[Pumbaa]

Half and half. SWT can't collect on behalf of other TOCs, but others can on behalf of SWT. At least that was the case around 12 months ago, unsure if it's changed.

 

[mono1989]

Hello!

Just a quick questions for people in the know on here, are the Southern revenue protection officers able to charge penalty fares on behalf of South West Trains at the moment? as was told that currently no agreement exists between the two companies?

Yes I collect on behalf of South West, C2C, Thameslink/Great Northern, First Great Western and London Midland

 

[MotorcycleAlan]

My station is managed by SWT but the majority of the trains are Southern. When a Revenue block is in place, by SWT staff, they issue plenty of tickletless Southern passengers with penalty fares, so it would be assumed that some kind of arrangement exists between the two.

 

[Stigy]

Must differ between TOCs I guess, as SWT can't issue Penalty Fares on behalf of FGW as I'm lead to believe. This doesn't affect reporting for prosecution, as this is not TOC specific and no agreements are necessary.

 

[cjohnson]

Someone did a FOI request a couple of years back obtaining the TOC's penalty fare schemes, and what agreements exist with other operators.

 

[mono1989]

If anyone requires information regarding the penalty fare scheme I am more than happy to help.

Being a current RPI I can offer assistance where needed (execpt were trying to get monry back)

 

[redbutton]

Also, it sounds like the PF was issued on the station, not the train, and to my knowledge a penalty fare is payable simply for being on the wrong side of the gateline in a PF station. Since Southern manage the station, they would be within their rights to charge a PF for entering the paid area of their station without having paid the appropriate fare.

The fact that one entered said paid area by alighting from a SWT service is immaterial.

 

[swt_passenger]

I think you seem to be assuming here that a Penalty Fare station is also a Compulsory Ticket Area, but at the vast majority of main line stations this is not the case.

 

[redbutton]

I think you seem to be assuming here that a Penalty Fare station is also a Compulsory Ticket Area, but at the vast majority of main line stations this is not the case.

My mistake, then. How would one find out which stations are which?

 

[furlong]

How would one find out which stations are which?

Check each Penalty Fare scheme. The last list I saw was:

Greenford TfL Station, All platforms
Maidenhead, All platforms and footbridge
Ealing Broadway, All platforms and footbridge
London Marylebone, Platforms
Gerrards Cross, Platforms and footbridge
Beaconsfield, Platforms and footbridge
Aylesbury, Platforms and footbridge
Birmingham Moor St, Platforms and footbridge
Birmingham Snow Hill, Platforms and concourse
High Wycombe, Platforms and underpass
South Ruislip , Platforms and underpass
Harrow on the Hill, Platforms and underpass and overbridge
Rickmansworth, Platforms
Chorleywood, Platforms
Chalfont and Latimer, Platforms
Amersham, Platforms

(Source: DfT correspondence regarding FOI request F0008550)

 

[swt_passenger]

Once you take stations that have joint LU use out of the list, there are trivial numbers of National Rail CTAs, with no logical reason for some of them.

Why is Maidenhead specifically chosen, compared to all other 'normal' FGW locations, and why are Chiltern so keen on CTAs?

 

[Stigy]

My mistake, then. How would one find out which stations are which?

None of South West Trains stations are Compulsory Ticket Areas and as far as I know, it's the same with all south london TOCs.....LU stations however are.

 

[bb21]

Check each Penalty Fare scheme. The last list I saw was:

Some more may have been added since then, as Watford Junction Pfm 1-4 are CTAs but not in the list.

Still, the number of National Rail stations that are CTAs is trivial.

 

[matt_world2004]

Check each Penalty Fare scheme. The last list I saw was:

Greenford TfL Station, All platforms
Maidenhead, All platforms and footbridge
Ealing Broadway, All platforms and footbridge
London Marylebone, Platforms
Gerrards Cross, Platforms and footbridge
Beaconsfield, Platforms and footbridge
Aylesbury, Platforms and footbridge
Birmingham Moor St, Platforms and footbridge
Birmingham Snow Hill, Platforms and concourse
High Wycombe, Platforms and underpass
South Ruislip , Platforms and underpass
Harrow on the Hill, Platforms and underpass and overbridge
Rickmansworth, Platforms
Chorleywood, Platforms
Chalfont and Latimer, Platforms
Amersham, Platforms

(Source: DfT correspondence regarding FOI request F0008550)

Kendal rise is too and I think many of the overground stations are.

 

[Mojo]

Kendal rise is too and I think many of the overground stations are.

As far as I'm aware, all Overground stations are.

 

[matt_world2004]

Outside of CTA's we are allowed on the platform to say use a platform side toilet or buy a newspaper or ticket right?

 

[najaB]

Outside of CTA's we are allowed on the platform to say use a platform side toilet or buy a newspaper or ticket right?

Yes. Though if there are barriers you will have to ask to be let through.

 

[gray1404]

Am I right in saying that CTA's have to be CLEARLY MARKED and advertised at the said location too?

 

[island]

Am I right in saying that CTA's have to be CLEARLY MARKED and advertised at the said location too?

Yes, there needs to be signs with specified warnings in place otherwise PFs cannot be charged.