Are ticket barriers beneficial?

[Antman]

843,328 Oyster cards were checked by RCIs on the DLR during the month before the FoI response. That's about 27,200 per day. Let's be generous and say there are 275,000 DLR passengers every day (that's the figure for 2013/2014, it's likely to have been less in 2007). Hardly 'half-hearted'!

Clearly the prejudiced opinion of one passenger is far more reliable than a rigorous study. Imagine how much money TfL could save on calculating ticketless travel estimates if they simply employed you instead... :roll:

Rigorous study

 

[transmanche]

Rigorous study

So go on, tell us what is wrong with the methodology. Enough with the sneering, it's time to put up or shut up.

 

[Antman]

So go on, tell us what is wrong with the methodology. Enough with the sneering, it's time to put up or shut up.

All I can say is that if your claims are anywhere near correct then all the ticket gates on LU and NR can be removed because they are quite clearly superfluous....................meanwhile in the real world!

I'll leave it at that before we bore the rest of the membership to tears

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Are there any records of how many platform tickets are issued these days ? Are they only really bought by spotters or do some people still buy them for their original purpose (of seeing off friends, relatives...carrying maiden aunt's bags to her carriage etc etc) ?


(oh.... and miaow miaow scratch scratch for the above)

 

[transmanche]

All I can say is that if your claims are anywhere near correct then all the ticket gates on LU and NR can be removed because they are quite clearly superfluous....................

Not my claims, TfL's claims.

So the answer is no. You have no evidence to show the methodology of the estimate is faulty. You just refuse to believe something because it doesn't fit your view of the world. Time for you to get back in your box I think.

 

[TEW]

Are there any records of how many platform tickets are issued these days ? Are they only really bought by spotters or do some people still buy them for their original purpose (of seeing off friends, relatives...carrying maiden aunt's bags to her carriage etc etc) ?


(oh.... and miaow miaow scratch scratch for the above)

Occasionally I see people who have bought them, and it's never trainspotters. However they don't actually work the ticket barriers!

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Occasionally I see people who have bought them, and it's never trainspotters. However they don't actually work the ticket barriers!

Seems odd they don't work the barriers - that would surely be the one way of controlling them with entry and exit restricted to the same station or platform.

 

[sheff1]

There are lots of honest people, and the pity is that they have to be inconvenienced because of the actions of the dishonest ones. However, such is life, and the sensible honest ones understand the reason.

I understand that due to the complexity of the UK ticketing system it is difficult, if not impossible, for the barriers to be programmed to accept every single ticket which is valid. What I do not understand though is why a minority of barrier attendants insist that because a ticket has been rejected then it is automatically invalid. If I, as a mere passenger, can understand why a valid ticket might be rejected why can they not understand the same ?

I admit some of my tickets are obscure, but a Falkirk to Sheffield ticket at Edinburgh or a Southend to London ticket at Leigh on Sea are not at all obscure but barrier attendants in both locations claimed the tickets were not valid at their station because the barriers had rejected them.*

*Before the usual suspects start ranting I must point out that these are just 2 examples, not the only times this has ever happened to me !

 

[themeone]

or a Southend to London ticket at Leigh on Sea[/I]

Glad it's not just me that experienced that - it seemed a particularly brainless way for the gates at Leigh to be programmed. At least the gateline assistant didn't try and tell me the ticket was invalid, he just shouted from the office to pull the luggage barrier towards me (which was open).

 

[Cletus]

The travel guides to Berlin state that the open station policy is backed up by flying squads of ticket controllers and the punishments are severe. It would be interesting if our people exchanged information on this trust system, but perhaps it might only result in the 'not invented here' reaction.

A colleague went to Germany as the equivelant of an RPI. They operate a zero tolerance policy to irregularities, have MUCH larger on the spot fines/charges, and are much more visible. He described it as Revenue Protection as it should be done.

I think the phrase that covers it is "Be careful what you wish for"...

"Diamond Geezer" was in Berlin recently and saw the ticket inspectors in action.

http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.co.uk/search?updated-max=2015-06-14T07:00:00+01:00

We soon learned that these metro trains signal their imminent departure by means of a red light above the door and a horn-type bleep, and that they hang around in the platform for a good few seconds longer than a typical tube train. On we hummed, initially uneventfully, and then the ticket inspectors got on. They'd looked quite ordinary waiting on the platform, one little and one large, before suddenly revealing their ID and starting to check our credentials. Refreshingly every platform in Berlin is ungated, and the populace are trusted to validate their ticket before travelling (and occasionally checked upon). On this occasion everything checked out until the guards reached the stocky middle-aged German couple, whose papers were unexpectedly found wanting, and they were escorted onto the next platform to face a fine.

Our next unusual passenger was a down and out with a dog. Again the dog was muzzled, this being one of the U-bahn's byelaws (along with no smoking, no alcohol and - by the looks of the graphic - no chips). This vagrant had brought some printed material to sell, I think Berlin's equivalent of The Big Issue, and started working his way (entirely unsuccessfully) through his potential customers. We merely shrugged, having nothing more than O-Level German with which to converse, and on he pressed. Then suddenly the three young casual lads down the end of the carriage gathered around him, said something, laid a hand on his shoulder and whipped out a sheet of papers. They were undercover law enforcement, it seems, and within seconds he too was off the train being dealt with on the platform.

(haven't read whole thread yet, so this may be duplicated)

 

[infobleep]

What surprises me are the stations that don't have ticket barriers:

E. G. Portsmouth Harbour, Berrylands, Hinchley Wood to name but three.

Near by them are stations which do have barriers, E. G Portsmouth and Southsea; Fratton and Surbiton.

If a passenger wanted to go to Portsmouth and Southsea but didn't have a ticket, wouldn't they just get out at the Harbour station instead? They would then only get caught if their was a ticket check on the train.
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I still feel that among the most pointless gates are those at Guildford. The footbridge, which is a public right of way, is gated at either end (rather than the slightly more sensible option of gating the entrance to each platform). So anyone wanting to use the footbridge as a through route can simply ask for a bridge pass which will let them through. Presumably there's not much to stop miscreants from doing this, unless staff are on the ball and watching the CCTV... how many people actually get caught using bridge passes to access the platforms?

The other issue at Guildford is that, in so far as I was told, they do not issue platform tickets so the only way to get to a platform is to ask for a bridge pass and then head down despite the fact the pass doesn't allow you to do so.

That is when the passes are in operation. There are times of the day when the back entrance is usually unmanned. There are other times when both sides are moaned but they are not issuing bridge passes between the two. Then from at least 11pm, if not earlier, there are staff at the main entrance gates but they are left open.

Recently someone got assaulted in the subway at night. Would that have occurred if the gates were closed? It might be uneconomical to close them at that time.

Years ago I got stopped on a platform with a bridge pass. This was when they had bridge pass printing machines. I did however have a valid ticket. I just took the bridge pass because my ticket was buried away.

 

[TEW]

The other issue at Guildford is that, in so far as I was told, they do not issue platform tickets so the only way to get to a platform is to ask for a bridge pass and then head down despite the fact the pass doesn't allow you to do so.

Recently someone got assaulted in the subway at night. Would that have occurred if the gates were closed? It might be uneconomical to close them at that time.

You can buy a platform ticket if you really want at Guildford from the ticket. Alternatively you can just ask the staff at the barrier, I'm sure they'll be obliging.

Assaults seem to happen regardless of whether the gates are in operation or not. There was another sexual assault recently, but that happened mid-morning with the gateline in operation.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Ticket barriers seem to confuse London cyclists.

I've watched as they put their ticket through the barrier wheel the cycle through and then get caught by the gates!

Or like the other Sunday, I watched one lycra nut, try and tap out with a paper 1 day travelcard & then try and insert an Oyster card into the normal ticket slot. FFS!

What's really worrying is that half these clowns are in charge of decision making departments and the like! :roll:

 

[paul1609]

What surprises me are the stations that don't have ticket barriers:

E. G. Portsmouth Harbour, Berrylands, Hinchley Wood to name but three.


Near by them are stations which do have barriers, E. G Portsmouth and Southsea; Fratton and Surbiton.

If a passenger wanted to go to Portsmouth and Southsea but didn't have a ticket, wouldn't they just get out at the Harbour station instead? They would then only get caught if their was a ticket check on the train.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The other issue at Guildford is that, in so far as I was told, they do not issue platform tickets so the only way to get to a platform is to ask for a bridge pass and then head down despite the fact the pass doesn't allow you to do so.

That is when the passes are in operation. There are times of the day when the back entrance is usually unmanned. There are other times when both sides are moaned but they are not issuing bridge passes between the two. Then from at least 11pm, if not earlier, there are staff at the main entrance gates but they are left open.

Recently someone got assaulted in the subway at night. Would that have occurred if the gates were closed? It might be uneconomical to close them at that time.

Years ago I got stopped on a platform with a bridge pass. This was when they had bridge pass printing machines. I did however have a valid ticket. I just took the bridge pass because my ticket was buried away.

It would be hard to have ticket barriers at Portsmouth Harbour because Platform 1 is the access to the Wightlink Fastcat service to Ryde. The barriers at Fratton have been removed.

 

[Antman]

Ticket barriers seem to confuse London cyclists.

I've watched as they put their ticket through the barrier wheel the cycle through and then get caught by the gates!

Or like the other Sunday, I watched one lycra nut, try and tap out with a paper 1 day travelcard & then try and insert an Oyster card into the normal ticket slot. FFS!

What's really worrying is that half these clowns are in charge of decision making departments and the like! :roll:

I've seen loads of people do things like that, they also get on buses and try and swipe their travelcard on the oyster reader

 

[krus_aragon]

Seems odd they don't work the barriers - that would surely be the one way of controlling them with entry and exit restricted to the same station or platform.

That's my experience with the only platform ticket I ever managed to buy: didn't work the barriers (King's Cross, pre-refurb).

 

[HarleyDavidson]

It would be hard to have ticket barriers at Portsmouth Harbour because Platform 1 is the access to the Wightlink Fastcat service to Ryde. The barriers at Fratton have been removed.

Fratton never had automatic ticket barriers. It would be impossible to do because of the free bridge access from Goldsmith Avenue.

 

[alexl92]

That's my experience with the only platform ticket I ever managed to buy: didn't work the barriers (King's Cross, pre-refurb).

They don't work at Leeds either. You have to get a staff member to swipe you through

 

[infobleep]

You can buy a platform ticket if you really want at Guildford from the ticket. Alternatively you can just ask the staff at the barrier, I'm sure they'll be obliging. [emoji14]

Assaults seem to happen regardless of whether the gates are in operation or not. There was another sexual assault recently, but that happened mid-morning with the gateline in operation.

I was told by a member of staff a platform ticket couldn't be purchased but your right one could ask.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Ticket barriers seem to confuse London cyclists.

I've watched as they put their ticket through the barrier wheel the cycle through and then get caught by the gates!

Or like the other Sunday, I watched one lycra nut, try and tap out with a paper 1 day travelcard & then try and insert an Oyster card into the normal ticket slot. FFS!

What's really worrying is that half these clowns are in charge of decision making departments and the like! :roll:

I witnessed that the other evening in London. Not noticed it before.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It would be hard to have ticket barriers at Portsmouth Harbour because Platform 1 is the access to the Wightlink Fastcat service to Ryde. The barriers at Fratton have been removed.

Well Guildford footbridge is a public right of way and at certain times of the day they still have gates, so it could be done at Portsmouth Harbour if they wanted to.

Why did they remove the barriers are Fratton? I'm surprised. Why not also remove them at Portsmouth and Southsea as well.

 

[Antman]

I was told by a member of staff a platform ticket couldn't be purchased but your right one could ask.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I witnessed that the other evening in London. Not noticed it before.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well Guildford footbridge is a public right of way and at certain times of the day they still have gates, so it could be done at Portsmouth Harbour if they wanted to.

Why did they remove the barriers are Fratton? I'm surprised. Why not also remove them at Portsmouth and Southsea as well.

On a similar theme does anybody know why the barriers were removed at Canterbury East a few years ago?