i was stopped today, didnt have a ticket to show. they took my details, i am sure the will fine me or prosecute me in 30 days anyways, but i will fight for it till the end, even go to courts, i have not jumped from a barrier or a gate and ride the damn train. ok ok i NOW know that i have to buy a ticket before getting on the train, well how should i know, every time i get on the train there is someone selling you tickets except today, which i am sure the ticket man were asked not to sell tickets on trains for them to fine people like me who didn't know about it until today. trust me it felt awful as if i have done a serious crime. just want to know that if i get fined by the courts and be prosecuted will it be shown on CBR check.
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Will it show on my CRB records if I end up convicted?
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Llanigraham
On Moderation
Possibly yes!
Next.
Next.
VauxhallandI
Established Member
Depends but if there is a god....
As others have said, it depends on what charges are brought. If, as you claim, it's a simple matter of not having a ticket when you should have - i.e. you didn't short fare, doughnut, give false details, etc. - then I'd say that it's more likely than not that any conviction would be for a Byelaws offence. This would not be recorded, and will not show on a standard DBS check.
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HilversumNS
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I suggest you drop that kind of thinking VERY quickly.
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
For a conviction for a railway ticketing Offence to appear on a DBS check (f.k.a. CBS) it will normally involve the intention to deprive the railway of the fare due, where the passenger makes some action or some statement which is evidence of that intention. From your description on here, I see no such Evidence. So, I would expect it to be considered as a suspected Offence against Railway Byelaw 18 which might even be abandoned on payment of the fare and perhaps also the cost of any time spent/ wasted in investigating the incident. If there were no ticket selling facilities available on your journey, then only the fare should be due.
If you wish to contest the claim then you can certainly do that and you will be able to put the Railway Company's evidence against you 'to proof'. However, the costs will be considerable, and if it is the strict liability Offence of Byelaw 18 where ticket selling facilities had been available, it is hard to see that you could have any defence. If you are found Guilty in a contested hearing in Court then you will be facing a fine, the Prosecution's costs, Conviction Charge, Victim Surcharge and the fare due.
For a detailed explanation of what appears on a CRB, see this thread: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2177302#post2177302 .
If you wish to contest the claim then you can certainly do that and you will be able to put the Railway Company's evidence against you 'to proof'. However, the costs will be considerable, and if it is the strict liability Offence of Byelaw 18 where ticket selling facilities had been available, it is hard to see that you could have any defence. If you are found Guilty in a contested hearing in Court then you will be facing a fine, the Prosecution's costs, Conviction Charge, Victim Surcharge and the fare due.
For a detailed explanation of what appears on a CRB, see this thread: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2177302#post2177302 .
i was tricked by the company, every time when i board the train there is the conductor sells tickets to me and everyone else that do not have the ticket, but on that day i was running to get the train and i went in from the door which the conductor goes in because the other train doors was closed, even though he saw me running and knew i was not having a ticket, he didn't sell anyone any tickets, well to be honest i was yaaaaaaay i got a free ride, little did i know my yaaay will be become byelaws, conviction, regulations, court, talked down to as if i killed someone not buying ticket. the arriva trains wales have dig a hole for me and i fell in it.
Llanigraham
On Moderation
I suggest you try to remove the attitude you have about ATW.
It will get you nowhere.
They did NOT entrap you.
Exactly where did you board and were there ticketing opportunities at that station?
It will get you nowhere.
They did NOT entrap you.
Exactly where did you board and were there ticketing opportunities at that station?
wensley
Established Member
As per other posters, were there ticket-buying facilities at the station you boarded?
The Guard cannot possibly know you did not have a ticket purely by seeing you running to the train at the last minute. You're mention of "yaaaaaaay I got a free ride" does not suggest that you made any effort to approach the Guard to obtain a ticket at any point during your journey.
As per others who have already replied, your attitude will not help in any dispute - facts are the way to go. Traincrew are also not willingly instructed not to retail tickets in order for RPIs at stations down the line to obtain prosecutions ... it's much less work for the TOCs to sell a ticket rather than go through the process described here.
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
I can't really add anything more useful apart from the fact that it is probably people like you (who make no attempt to pay their way) that contribute to high(er) fares for "fair" people.
There is an old saying: Fair people pay fares whilst fare dodgers pay fines...
There is an old saying: Fair people pay fares whilst fare dodgers pay fines...
Whilst I don't condone fare dodging, is there any evidence this is the case? Are fares higher on routes with higher levels of fare dodging?
DaleCooper
Established Member
This was Deerfold's post, it is ambiguous when read in the context of other posts. I presume now that he meant is there evidence that it raises fares, that was not how I first read it.
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It's not really that ambiguous read in context:
robert7111a: It is probably people like you (who make no attempt to pay their way) that contribute to high(er) fares for "fair" people.
Deerfold: Whilst I don't condone fare dodging, is there any evidence this is the case? Are fares higher on routes with higher levels of fare dodging?
In answer to that question, I doubt it would be possible to prove either way. It's easy to see that fare dodging doesn't help lower fares, but the answer to your question depends on if the people who don't pay would still travel by train if they knew they couldn't get away with dodging.
DaleCooper
Established Member
Well I read it in context and found it ambiguous and I don't think there's any point in arguing degrees of ambiguity. The very fact that Deerfold split it into two separate questions was what misled me, if the first question mark were replaced by a comma it would be clear. That is not meant as a criticism of Deerfold, sometimes our posts don't come out quite as we intended, I'm as guilty as anyone.
HilversumNS
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In order to avoid any conflict, I have removed the text from my previous posts and replaced them with 'deleted'
Mods, please remove post #16 & 18 if you could, thanks.
Mods, please remove post #16 & 18 if you could, thanks.
Flamingo
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To get back on topic () have we yet established the journey undertaken?
Not yet, only that the OP feels very aggrieved, and is probably going to defend themselves in court...
No doubt they'll be a law student so it will be great practise for them.
Airline Man
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Not all offences are 'disqualifying'. I can only go by my experience working at Heathrow but for a short while I handled criminal record checks when they were first brought in. Many staff had criminal records but they were still able to get an airside pass. The most common convictions were drink driving and possession of drugs.
However you could get disqualified for stealing even if it was for a bag of crisps.
I don't know who you work for but possibly talking to a union rep may help or if that sort of information is available on your company intranet, I'd check that.
However you could get disqualified for stealing even if it was for a bag of crisps.
I don't know who you work for but possibly talking to a union rep may help or if that sort of information is available on your company intranet, I'd check that.
Would you like me to provide the cold, fizzy, non alcoholic beverage from a large American conglomerate, to compliment the light snack you normally provide?
Flamingo
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Would you like me to provide the cold, fizzy, non alcoholic beverage from a large American conglomerate, to compliment the light snack you normally provide?
Why, thank you! Don't forget to bring enough for everybody!
RPI
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ATW have warning signs at all of their stations warning of prosecution for failing to "buy before you ride" so I really don't see how it's entrapment.
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
Stealing a bag of crisps and fare evasion are both classed as 'crimes of dishonesty', and will be relevant considerations in assessing a person's suitability for a job which includes, e.g., cash handling.
transmanche
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Llanigraham
On Moderation
The OP has been asked several times for details of his un-ticketed journey, but has so far failed to do so.................................
Ball is in his Court.
I offer 25 pieces of popcorn it was from somewhere in Cardiff, and I'll double it if it was on the line through Waun Gron Station.
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