Urgent Airport question

[freetoview33]

How far can someone come to wave you off at the airport?

Travelling from Bristol with Ryanair

 

[AndyW33]

The entrance to the security control point, immediately after the check-in area. You won't get any further at a UK airport without a boarding pass, unless you work there of course.

 

[fowler9]

How far can someone come to wave you off at the airport?

Travelling from Bristol with Ryanair

Can't say for Bristol but as a similar low cost bonanza airport as Liverpool you can get as far as check in. In Liverpool there is a big check in hall and then you can get a bit further to the area where you swipe your boarding pass if you have checked in online. No further than that. Just past there is security. Liverpool is a bit rubbish for seeing people off these days.

Liverpool used to be that you could get to the bar and cafe area where you could see out to the tarmac and then your friends/loved ones would go through security. Hope that gave you a rough idea anyway.

 

[Mojo]

At Bristol Airport the checkin desks/bag drop points are on the ground floor, which is the level you enter on. You then go up some stairs and onto a walkway and this is where security starts (your boarding pass is inspected here) and is how far you can go if you are not travelling.

 

[jopsuk]

Love to know the context here... but yes, there's certainly no "waving off at the gate"

 

[WestCoast]

I can remember a time when there were a lot more shops and cafes before security at airports such as Manchester. After the enhanced security and subsequent liquid restrictions were introduced, it was identified that it would be best to encourage all passengers to go through security immediately after check-in. Therefore most UK airports now have limited facilities before security.

 

[gordonthemoron]

when I started using Munich airport in 2008, you could get into the departure lounge without a boarding card, even the non-Schengen part if you had a passport (at least in terminal 2). Not like that anymore

 

[Stompehh]

At Bristol there is pretty much nothing to do before security (shops, restaurants etc).

 

[ainsworth74]

I've never been quite clear why, if you're willing to submit yourself to the full gamut of airport security, you shouldn't be able to accompany someone to their gate (or at least the departure lounge). You need a boarding card to get through the gate and probably again to actually board the plane so you wouldn't be able to access any of the planes. Heck the airports could probably turn it into a money spinner and charge £5 per person to see someone off.

I assume it's 'security' but I'm just not clear on how preventing people seeing friends/family off (as long as they go through the security checks) increases risks to such an extent it needs to be banned!

 

[plannerman]

It would greatly add to the pressure on security - think of the security queues now, and then double them if every passenger was also accompanied by someone to 'wave them off'.
Plus I guess it could lead to disputes where items are taken off people at security, only for the offender to plead and complain that they weren't flying anyway.
Nah, keep non-flyers out of the way.

 

[WestCoast]

when I started using Munich airport in 2008, you could get into the departure lounge without a boarding card, even the non-Schengen part if you had a passport (at least in terminal 2). Not like that anymore

Interestingly it is one of the few large airports these days where there aren't any boarding pass gates or someone manually checking them before you reach the scanner. They only ask to see it when you load your luggage onto the X-ray. They trialled the system at Manchester for a while, but I remember them switching back to gates after a lone child made it through security (and on to a flight!) without a boarding pass.
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I've never been quite clear why, if you're willing to submit yourself to the full gamut of airport security, you shouldn't be able to accompany someone to their gate (or at least the departure lounge). You need a boarding card to get through the gate and probably again to actually board the plane so you wouldn't be able to access any of the planes. Heck the airports could probably turn it into a money spinner and charge £5 per person to see someone off.

I assume it's 'security' but I'm just not clear on how preventing people seeing friends/family off (as long as they go through the security checks) increases risks to such an extent it needs to be banned!

I think it's also about crowd control. Security can be busy enough at certain times of the day (up to 40 minutes I've experienced in queues before) and adding non-flyers to the mix would add to the queues and make the experience more stressful.

Also, the UK Border Agency and the DfT seem to be uncomfortable with passengers airside in airports without forms of photo ID linked to a reservation. At Heathrow T5, where domestic, international and international-international passengers all converge, regulations mean that domestic passengers who may be without photo ID, are required to be photographed biometrically.

 

[Elwyn]

Also, the UK Border Agency and the DfT seem to be uncomfortable with passengers airside in airports without forms of photo ID linked to a reservation. At Heathrow T5, where domestic, international and international-international passengers all converge, regulations mean that domestic passengers who may be without photo ID, are required to be photographed biometrically.

That’s quite correct. You have domestic and international passengers mixing airside. So if someone was trying to by-pass UK border controls, they could fly into Heathrow from outside the UK, meet up with someone who had bought a domestic ticket eg to Glasgow, and then swop boarding cards. The person seeking to by-pass the controls could then fly up to Glasgow and enter the country as a domestic passenger whilst the person who had met him in the lounge would just make their way to arrivals and show their own passport, and so re-enter the UK. Photographing domestic passengers as they enter the controlled zone, and then verifying that it's still the same person when they go to their departure gate makes that much harder to do.

Controlling numbers in the departure lounges would also come into this too. When people are travelling to countries in the Far East whole families turn up to see them off. If they all had to b security checked it would put a lot of pressure on the security systems.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That is of course a UK curiosity as one of the few countries that don't have physical outbound passport control.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That is of course a UK curiosity as one of the few countries that don't have physical outbound passport control.

I thought they'd just re-introduced that?

 

[anme]

I thought they'd just re-introduced that?

I understand it is being re-introduced but it's not implemented at airports yet (at least, not at airports I've travelled through). I think it should now be implemented for people leaving the UK by ferry - can anyone confirm?

It was supposed to have happened before the election, but didn't.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I understand it is being re-introduced but it's not implemented at airports yet (at least, not at airports I've travelled through). I think it should now be implemented for people leaving the UK by ferry - can anyone confirm?

I think so. However at airports I understand it will not be a physical check, it will be done by the airlines at the gate as at present, using the API data provided in advance.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...sengers-leaving-the-uk/exit-checks-fact-sheet

 

[Busaholic]

I understand it is being re-introduced but it's not implemented at airports yet (at least, not at airports I've travelled through). I think it should now be implemented for people leaving the UK by ferry - can anyone confirm?

It was supposed to have happened before the election, but didn't.

I've no personal experience, but have read it was introduced at Eurotunnel Folkestone and Port of Dover shortly after Easter, with '10% to 20%' stopped at random to produce documentation, and a warning to car passengers and foot travellers to arrive earlier for a crossing to enable checks to be made. Have not read any squeals from the press, so suspect activation is at or below the 10%.

 

[Elwyn]

Having an outbound passport control still wouldn't stop passengers swapping boarding cards once they were in the airside areas, so where domestic and international passengers mix, you would still need to photograph the domestic passengers and verify them at the domestic gate area.

Outbound passport controls are really designed to deal with other issues e.g. identify people wanted by the police (even criminals take holidays and it's an easy way of intercepting them) and of people trying to slip out of the country undetected for a wide range of reasons.

 

[cool110]

Having an outbound passport control still wouldn't stop passengers swapping boarding cards once they were in the airside areas, so where domestic and international passengers mix, you would still need to photograph the domestic passengers and verify them at the domestic gate area.

At the Spanish airports I've used the outbound passport control has been at the entrance to a non-schengen terminal (with check-in and security in the central part) or in a mixed terminal the entrance to a small separated area containing the non-schengen gates.

 

[Elwyn]

The Spanish and other Schengen countries are formally required to have an outbound passport check by the Schengen Convention. However it still doesn’t stop people practising fraud once they are in the airside controlled zone.

You mention using specified non Schengen gates. Obviously that doesn’t apply in the UK since it’s not in Schengen. However the principle of segregating gates (which is what we used to do in the UK up until the late 1970s to keep domestic and international passengers from mixing) isn’t popular with airlines and airport owners, and they put up strong resistance to it. It means they have to bus passengers from one control zone to another if a flight arrives or departs from the “wrong” category of gate which costs them time and money. For outbound passengers, if there are segregated gates, it can also mean that they don’t get near the airside shops and that bothers the airport operators a lot, as you might imagine. So airlines like to minimize the need for such restrictions, and there are considerable commercial pressures on the UK border authorities to try and be as flexible as possible, whilst still ensuring there is an effective border control.

The UK needs to make sure there’s no identity fraud where domestic and international passengers mix. (Believe me it’s a major racket and any loopholes are regularly exploited by those facilitating people into the UK illegally). In the UK, where airports want domestic and international passengers to mix, a photo system and id comparison is the methodology we require to prevent people who have arrived on an international flight from trying to by-pass immigration controls by simply switching airside to a domestic flight.

Each country has it’s own solution. They are not all perfect.

 

[scotsman]

I thought the outbound passport control was being introduced at boarding gates?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I thought the outbound passport control was being introduced at boarding gates?

It is, which is why you won't see it, because there are already passport checks at boarding gates so nothing changes for air passengers. The only sorts of passenger where things will change is those travelling on modes of transport where names don't always need to be declared, e.g. some ferries and E*.

(Yes, I know if you book with E* you have to give names, but if you book via DB, say, you don't).

 

[WestCoast]

I thought the outbound passport control was being introduced at boarding gates?

The airlines or their handling agents have been required for some time to collect and electronically submit Advance Passenger Information (Name, passport details) for passengers departing on international flights from the UK before the flight departs. Presumably, if the system flags someone up then they can be intercepted either before the flight leaves or the destination authorities can be alerted.

If you check-in online (compulsory now on some budget airlines) you enter the details then, otherwise it's done at a manned desk or check-in machine. The airline staff are responsible for checking passports/IDs at the check-in desk and/or at boarding gate.

Outbound control on the cheap some cynics would say...
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At the Spanish airports I've used the outbound passport control has been at the entrance to a non-schengen terminal (with check-in and security in the central part) or in a mixed terminal the entrance to a small separated area containing the non-schengen gates.

My experiences with Spanish passport control visiting my parents in Spain is that they carry out somewhat 'cursory' checks. I remember one officer that didn't even open my passport and another who was more interested in arranging his break. However, I believe they require API data from passengers on flights coming in on non-Schengen flights, so maybe most of the checks take place electronically.

Schengen is always a bit random. Crossing the Czech Republic - Germany border a lot of the coaches and large vehicles are pulled over (not necessarilly directly on the border), but I don't think I have been checked going into Austria. Better save that debate for the next Eurostar passport control discussion!