New fourth platform at Manchester Airport station.

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Do we know if all this work has been finished and the platform is now ready for use. The Todmorden Curve syndrome comes to mind

Was there not a three-week total closure of Manchester Airport railway station in the early months of this year which was supposed to reassure that this was enough time to allow all the final works to be completed.

We are now in the month of June 2015.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Was there not a three-week total closure of Manchester Airport railway station in the early months of this year which was supposed to reassure that this was enough time to allow all the final works to be completed.

We are now in the month of June 2015.

To my knowledge all is done?

 

[Greybeard33]

Might be worth pointing out that you've created a thread for future Airport developments: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=116579

I'm aware a number of Councillors are unhappy with their suggestion of dropping the western Airport link and not proposing any other heavy rail investment (other than HS2 and HS3) and will be pushing the Airport for their reasoning for that but Paul's new thread is the best place for discussing that.

IMHO discussion of the western rail link is more appropriate to this UK Railway Forums > Infrastructure and Stations forum, rather than the Other Forums > General Discussion forum, where the "Manchester Airport's 10 year plan" thread resides. And the western link is relevant to the fourth platform topic, in that one of the key benefits of this link is that it would improve platform utilisation. Through trains would have much shorter dwell times than those that have to reverse out to the east.

The Surface Access section of the draft Sustainable Development Plan seems to assume that HS2 will enable new Classic services to the West Midlands and Wales via Styal, Wilmslow and Crewe, so making the western link superfluous:

As well as new high speed services, a major benefit [of HS2] is the released
capacity on the congested West Coast main line. This should allow for
new services to the airport on the line to Crewe and to key unserved
parts of the catchment area – including to the East & West Midlands,
The Potteries and Wales.

http://mag-umbraco-media-live.s3.amazonaws.com/1018/man_draft_sdp_economy-and-surface-access_online-2015.pdf - see p35. But will the existing four terminal platforms be enough to accommodate these new services to the south and west, as well as the planned extra services to the north and east via Piccadilly post-Northern Hub?

Perhaps representations during the three month consultation period might persuade the airport to at least continue safeguarding the alignment for the link.

 

[northwichcat]

The Surface Access section of the draft Sustainable Development Plan seems to assume that HS2 will enable new Classic services to the West Midlands and Wales via Styal, Wilmslow and Crewe, so making the western link superfluous:
http://mag-umbraco-media-live.s3.amazonaws.com/1018/man_draft_sdp_economy-and-surface-access_online-2015.pdf - see p35. But will the existing four terminal platforms be enough to accommodate these new services to the south and west, as well as the planned extra services to the north and east via Piccadilly post-Northern Hub?

Perhaps representations during the three month consultation period might persuade the airport to at least continue safeguarding the alignment for the link.

One of the criticisms which has emerged since the 4th platform has opened is that people are saying that could be used for North Wales services and the reason it isn't is because Network Rail can't guarantee a path for them long term alongside the Northern Hub proposals.

I'm wondering when the Airport say HS2 Classic services to Wales do they mean services from South Wales opposed to North Wales?

I also don't see how the West Midlands comes in for a HS2 vs western link comparison. I would have thought even if the western link was built that services to the Airport from Crewe would continue via the current route opposed to going via Middlewich or Winsford.

I thought the idea for a western link was to allow Liverpool-Runcorn-Northwich-Airport services and services from Chester and beyond - possibly Holyhead, Llandudno or/and Wrexham.

 

[edwin_m]

I'm wondering when the Airport say HS2 Classic services to Wales do they mean services from South Wales opposed to North Wales?

I also don't see how the West Midlands comes in for a HS2 vs western link comparison. I would have thought even if the western link was built that services to the Airport from Crewe would continue via the current route opposed to going via Middlewich or Winsford.

I think these services would be making use of capacity on the classic network released by transferring the main London and Birmingham services onto HS2.

 

[geoffk]

Mod Note: This post and some of those through to post #145 originated from this thread.

Not sure if this has already been commented on, but platform 4 at Manchester Airport is still not in use. I was told today by a TPE supervisor that this is for "insurance reasons". Anyone know what that means?

 

[Holly]

... I thought the idea for a western link was to allow Liverpool-Runcorn-Northwich-Airport services and services from Chester and beyond - possibly Holyhead, Llandudno or/and Wrexham.

Also Northwich-Manchester in less time than it took in the days of steam trains (which it isn't when going via Stockport). Recover at least first generation DMU timings.

 

[Greybeard33]

I also don't see how the West Midlands comes in for a HS2 vs western link comparison. I would have thought even if the western link was built that services to the Airport from Crewe would continue via the current route opposed to going via Middlewich or Winsford.

I thought the idea for a western link was to allow Liverpool-Runcorn-Northwich-Airport services and services from Chester and beyond - possibly Holyhead, Llandudno or/and Wrexham.

The western link would also enable services to the airport from Stoke and the Marches to be routed via Crewe, Middlewich and Northwich, then continue through the airport to Piccadilly. This would reduce airport platform occupancy compared with services that just reverse back to Piccadilly - a win-win. Whereas services via Wilmslow would compete for airport platform slots with services from Manchester and beyond.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If the fourth platform is ready for use, why are any services not using it?

 

[snowball]

If the fourth platform is ready for use, why are any services not using it?

This post has appeared in another thread claiming "insurance reasons".

 

[northwichcat]

If the fourth platform is ready for use, why are any services not using it?

The 4th platform was due to come in to use when the Ordsall Chord opened (which was originally scheduled for December 2016.) Someone previously posted the work to build the 4th platform was brought forward to coincide with work being done which related to the Metrolink line to the Airport so that the disruption was minimised. On the other hand the Ordsall Chord has been delayed - current estimate is in time for the December 17 timetable change.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Also Northwich-Manchester in less time than it took in the days of steam trains (which it isn't when going via Stockport). Recover at least first generation DMU timings.

The view of local councils was that was a primary objective but when Network Rail looked at it the primary objective was more destinations with direct links to the Airport without clogging up the lines around central Manchester, with faster Cheshire-Manchester services being an added bonus.

 

[northwichcat]

Not sure if this has already been commented on, but platform 4 at Manchester Airport is still not in use. I was told today by a TPE supervisor that this is for "insurance reasons". Anyone know what that means?

Probably means in the short term it'll only be used if another platform is out of action for whatever reason.

As I posted in the other thread:

The 4th platform was due to come in to use when the Ordsall Chord opened (which was originally scheduled for December 2016.) Someone previously posted the work to build the 4th platform was brought forward to coincide with work being done which related to the Metrolink line to the Airport so that the disruption was minimised. On the other hand the Ordsall Chord has been delayed - current estimate is in time for the December 17 timetable change.

 

[snowball]

The 4th platform was due to come in to use when the Ordsall Chord opened (which was originally scheduled for December 2016.) Someone previously posted the work to build the 4th platform was brought forward to coincide with work being done which related to the Metrolink line to the Airport so that the disruption was minimised. On the other hand the Ordsall Chord has been delayed - current estimate is in time for the December 17 timetable change.

Yes, but the question is, now P4 is complete, why not use it, to reduce the amount of doubling up needed? Doubling up must be a huge problem when trains are delayed and arrive out of sequence.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Yes, but the question is, now P4 is complete, why not use it, to reduce the amount of doubling up needed? Doubling up must be a huge problem when trains are delayed and arrive out of sequence.

That is was what my last posting had in mind.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This post has appeared in another thread claiming "insurance reasons".

I most certainly wish to hear an "officially credited" version as to why one face of an island platform has been used for a considerable period of time but the other platform face is said to face insurance problems....:roll:

 

[Llama]

As a half-educated guess, I suspect it could be to do with the method of train dispatch at the Airport changing imminently to a different procedure.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As a half-educated guess, I suspect it could be to do with the method of train dispatch at the Airport changing imminently to a different procedure.

Would that matter be said to affect all four of the platforms...not just the new fourth platform?

 

[Llama]

Yes. But if the equipment for dispatch that is currently used on platforms 1 to 3 isn't available on 4, that would stop it being used until the method of dispatch is changed at the station.

 

[snowball]

I would have thought it unlikely that NR's new infrastructure would be so tied in with plans (which I presume are Northern's plans) for operating the station - plans which from NR's point of view could easily change. I would have thought NR would specify the new platform to have equivalent equipment to the other platforms. Having spent millions on rebuilding the bridge under Outwood Lane and laying new track, signalling and OLE, it would seem odd to scrimp on a right-away indicator.

Maybe the evidence lies among pictures posted by Richardio123 or others on Skyscrapercity - though it might take quite an effort to find them.

 

[geoffk]

I now understand from a rail industry source that platform 4 at MIA is to open on 20th June and that the ATW service will run through to the Airport from the December timetable change.

Not sure how paths have become available but we will wait and see.

 

[Starmill]

Didn't ANorthernGuard say there will be no staff despatch from the 2nd week of June? That's from today.

 

[Class 170101]

I now understand from a rail industry source that platform 4 at MIA is to open on 20th June and that the ATW service will run through to the Airport from the December timetable change.

Not sure how paths have become available but we will wait and see.

Presumably the path relied upon the 4th Platform being open and until this opened the path that ATW applied for would not be viable.

 

[The Planner]

Will be interesting in a couple of years then when the fight starts over the actual paths that the 4th platform is for as part of the northern hub outputs.

 

[Class 170101]

Will be interesting in a couple of years then when the fight starts over the actual paths that the 4th platform is for as part of the northern hub outputs.

I guess that depends on the length of the ATW Track Access Contract for these services. However with Ordsall Chord being on ice for the time being I would be surprised if it opened before the end of CP5.

 

[snowball]

Odd this discussion is going on in two threads. Geoffk has posted in the other one:

I now understand from a rail industry source that platform 4 at MIA is to open on 20th June and that the ATW service will run through to the Airport from the December timetable change.

Not sure how paths have become available but we will wait and see.

This perhaps tends to confirm Llama's hypothesis.

[10 Jun: Sorry, thread unintentionally bumped.]

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Odd this discussion is going on in two threads.

This thread has been running since the middle of February.

 

[Starmill]

It's no longer in a different thread, see the Mod Note attached to 126

 

[WatcherZero]

Presumably the path relied upon the 4th Platform being open and until this opened the path that ATW applied for would not be viable.

NR previously acknowledge the path was available but didn't want ATW to use it because it was only available for three or so years until Transpennine/Ordsall Chord improvements came on stream and then they would have to surrender it again. Course now Transpennine has been delayed so may be available longer, though doesn't solve the question of ultimate ownership of the path.

 

[Starmill]

It isn't lacking for an RA indicator at any rate.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It's no longer in a different thread, see the Mod Note attached to 126

Glad to see that this thread was chosen for all those transferred postings as there is more depth and discussion matters on this one as a result.

 

[snowball]

Yes, but the question is, now P4 is complete, why not use it, to reduce the amount of doubling up needed? Doubling up must be a huge problem when trains are delayed and arrive out of sequence.

Indeed, there's an example of this in the other thread:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2199213&postcount=172

Refers to 20 32 Manchester Airport to Chester tonight

This train will be starting late from Manchester Airport and is expected to be 45 minutes late.
This is due to a problem currently under investigation.
Additional Information:
Platform congestion at Manchester Airport station, means this service is currently unable to depart on it's journey.
Another operator's train ahead (in the platform), had developed a fault and could not be moved clear earlier. This faulty train has been removed. - See more at: http://www.journeycheck.com/arrivatrainswales#sthash.K6uAyq8z.dpuf