Greater Anglia Good and Bad Discussion

[LAX54]

Maybe we could take a lead from the USA system ?


http://media.metro.net/about_us/transit_education/images/Metro Rules and Regulations.pdf

 

[jon0844]

The thing I like about the USA, although I can't speak for the whole country as I've only been to five or six states (and even then, always cities) is that you can accuse the Americans of being overly polite, friendly and coming over as a little false - I mean, do they really care how your day is going so far?

However, while they are very good with customer service there's always this acceptance that there's a line that can't be crossed.

You can be upset with something and they'll be nice and polite, but start to swear and appear threatening and it's game over. They'll stop speaking to you. And what's more, people won't side with you, so Tweeting about it isn't going to win you any friends.

Here, you'd have a go at someone for littering and all hell would break loose. And inevitably in the end, staff would be (and are) told not to get involved and just clean the mess up.

I don't know what powers they have in the US on public transport, but I get the impression that they won't be anywhere near as tolerant as we are - and I also think it would be more socially unacceptable. Here, nobody has an issue with dropping litter, whether smelly takeaway food to the more 'acceptable' placing of a newspaper or coffee cup on a seat, as if it will just happily sit there without finding its way onto the floor and the leftover content of said mug spilling on a seat or carpet.

I see people Tweeting that train companies should put bins on trains. There ARE bins on trains, but people have to move to use them. I did say recently though that TOCs could perhaps make the location of bins more known, especially those between seats. I suspect a fair percentage of those who leave stuff behind on a table might have actually used a bin if they knew it existed.

Of course, if we ever saw bin signs on walls then I'm sure people would moan and say how unnecessary it is. 'Nanny state' etc.

 

[387star]

I listened to the BBC radio essex chat and one person I forget their name said Greater Anglia had reduced the number of trains it runs from the start of the franchise presumably 317/7s and then the manager said this was not true however isn't it?

Or can he only say that because the 317/7s have begun returning to traffic to be in good shape for LOROL or because they have been replaced by the 379s ?

It was also noted a lot of trains in ilford are broken is this true?

The flea bites seems nonsense how can it be proved it was due to the seats?

 

[Dave1987]

Apparently we are all enthusiasts on this forum according to Delayed_again

 

[387star]

Why is it Greater Anglia 360 seat covers look appallingly rough let's be honest and every other operator who runs the same trains has near immaculate seat covers of the same design

That's the problem right there or should we blame First for selecting sub standard covers?

I hope the carpets will change or it is going to be very bad on the eye.. I know I risk coming under attack for wanting new covers then moaning about the trivial matters but still..

 

[43074]

I listened to the BBC radio essex chat and one person I forget their name said Greater Anglia had reduced the number of trains it runs from the start of the franchise presumably 317/7s and then the manager said this was not true however isn't it?

It's fair to say he was careful with his words - his words were along the lines of we have the same number of trains as per their contract to run the franchise (i.e. assuming there would be no 317/7s), but technically the Greater Anglia franchise lost 36 vehicles at the start of the franchise.

Why is it Greater Anglia 360 seat covers look appallingly rough let's be honest and every other operator who runs the same trains has near immaculate seat covers of the same design

That's the problem right there or should we blame First for selecting sub standard covers?

I think it is a case of differences in corporate image - SWT or LM have a clear brand image, their corporate image is clearly important for them, which includes clean trains etc whereas it doesn't seem to be as important for AGA... How many SWT or LM stations do you see with the remains of 4 brands visible (Stowmarket - there are a few BR/InterCity station signs, Anglia Railways green/grey benches, handrails and waiting rooms, ''One'' blue canopy, CRT screens and station signs and AGA grey lamposts). Stagecoach in particular are like that, when EMT acquired some of the ex-Northern 156s they had notices inside apologising for the state of them, they weren't even too bad.

 

[Pugwash]

I listened to the BBC radio essex chat and one person I forget their name said Greater Anglia had reduced the number of trains it runs from the start of the franchise presumably 317/7s and then the manager said this was not true however isn't it?

Or can he only say that because the 317/7s have begun returning to traffic to be in good shape for LOROL or because they have been replaced by the 379s ?

It was also noted a lot of trains in ilford are broken is this true?

The flea bites seems nonsense how can it be proved it was due to the seats?

It cannot be proved, but I have had insect bites on my legs which I cannot attribute to anything else.

It is not nonsense, there is not enough rolling stock slack to properly deep clean the trains out of service.

Further to a large percentage of the on train visual displays do not work, whoever gets the franchise next time has a lot of catching up to do to get the rolling stock back to a decent condition. Have a look at the GA twitter feed, there are a lot of rolling stock failures.

The 321's will need the toilets changed to make them accessible, which will require some time out of the fleet.

The DFT should really start thinking about how they will allow this to happen now.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Why is it Greater Anglia 360 seat covers look appallingly rough let's be honest and every other operator who runs the same trains has near immaculate seat covers of the same design

That's the problem right there or should we blame First for selecting sub standard covers?

I hope the carpets will change or it is going to be very bad on the eye.. I know I risk coming under attack for wanting new covers then moaning about the trivial matters but still..

The carpets should go - Vinyl like the 321's is easier to keep clean.

The Seats covers are a trivial matter compared to the filth surrounding the air conditioning ducts.

 

[jon0844]

That's the problem right there or should we blame First for selecting sub standard covers?

I hope the carpets will change or it is going to be very bad on the eye.. I know I risk coming under attack for wanting new covers then moaning about the trivial matters but still..

Because of the way people treat trains now, I can't see any refurbishments of trains used by commuters ever having carpet again.

By that I mean proper refurbishments, and of course new rolling stock, not a minor refresh on existing trains (deep clean, new seat covers). Everything will be designed to be as easy to clean as possible, almost making it possible to jet wash the carriage!

The ambience will be nothing like the relatively cosy feel on some existing trains, and everything will be far more plasticky and cheap looking - but it will be cleaner.

I can't wait to see what Twitter will think of that when it happens.

The 379s are also looking dated in places, and I suspect is more down to the treatment from passengers on runs to/from Cambridge than wear from those going to the airport. I might be wrong, but I am sure when they get a mid-life refresh in the future, they too might get the carpets ripped out.

And, yes, the seat covers appear to have been sub-standard from the off. They've looked like some of the photos for far longer than when Abellio has been in control, and the state of them has been mentioned on this forum a few times - including by myself.

Edit; If the company that provided the onboard screens on some stock has gone bust, I assume Abellio (and others) are effectively screwed? I mean, who will fund a total replacement? It's not going to happen - who would fund it? Abellio, the DfT, the ROSCO? As these trains are already very old, I expect the decision will be taken to do nothing, or at the very least just delay things and make it so low priority that eventually the trains will be out of service anyway.

 

[GolfStreetHalt]

It cannot be proved, but I have had insect bites on my legs which I cannot attribute to anything else.

Same here!

 

[387star]

...whilst southern now have carpet throughout the electrostars

 

[chubs]

I thought the 317/7's went because all the other 317's that were permanently out of service at Ilford were brought back to working service?

Are there trains at Ilford long term out of service with no plans to repair them again?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
FWIW the 375's and 377's are newer than the 360's and getting their first refresh, the 360's are really long overdue attention now.

The 170's are even worse. They don't need a lot, but a deep clean and stopping everything from rattling would be so welcome.

 

[tsr]

...whilst southern now have carpet throughout the electrostars

It makes sense. The less vinyl, it generally seems the lower the slip hazard. It gets very slippy when anything other than water gets on 377s' vinyl. Carpet is more absorbent.

On an AGA note, I was impressed to see my Liverpool St - Cambridge 379 on Friday given a proper hoover, as well as what you may call the usual litter pick, and a checkup of the toilets by a Bombardier engineer - all in the 10mins before departure. I must say it puts other Electrostar operators like Southern just a little bit to shame. LST-CBG runs are not so different to London-Brighton semi-fasts and you'd only get a basic litter pick and maybe filling of the water tanks on the latter. It seems that there are just not enough Fleet Service Quality people on most, if not all, TOCs South of the Thames.

 

[387star]

A certain awful national paper has this to say..

Abellio Greater Anglia pledges £30m of improvements after customers name and shame railway operator with images showing state of carriages on Twitter

 

[jon0844]

...whilst southern now have carpet throughout the electrostars

I think that's an odd decision. Of course it's nicer and if a TOC thinks it provides a nicer experience, which will increase usage (especially off-peak) then that's fine, but it does mean it's harder to keep things clean.

The 365s lost their carpets and I am sure the 317s and 321s will lose theirs (indeed some variants already have) in time.

It makes sense. The less vinyl, it generally seems the lower the slip hazard. It gets very slippy when anything other than water gets on 377s' vinyl. Carpet is more absorbent.

On an AGA note, I was impressed to see my Liverpool St - Cambridge 379 on Friday given a proper hoover, as well as what you may call the usual litter pick, and a checkup of the toilets by a Bombardier engineer - all in the 10mins before departure. I must say it puts other Electrostar operators like Southern just a little bit to shame. LST-CBG runs are not so different to London-Brighton semi-fasts and you'd only get a basic litter pick and maybe filling of the water tanks on the latter. It seems that there are just not enough Fleet Service Quality people on most, if not all, TOCs South of the Thames.

I've seen them dragging along a trolley along the platforms at LST with equipment that I assume was either emptying retention tanks, or refilling water tanks, or both. Never seen that anywhere else.

But I do think vinyl just makes cleaning easier, but must be of a non-slip type for obvious reasons. In the winter, they do certainly look tatty as people carry on platform salt, but carpets don't look great either. And of course there were plenty of photos showing salt on the train floors on Twitter, as you'd expect.

 

[387star]

It was raised on the radio greater anglia is a poisoned chalice and that they wish they never got hold of this franchise is there truth here? Perhaps they regret the abellio greater anglia rebrand last year

 

[jon0844]

It would be rather silly for someone at Abellio to say something like that. I hope that anyone they put on the radio (or TV, or gets interviewed in a paper) has suitable media training.

Still delayed_again will have a field day if it's implied that his ranting on Twitter has secured £30m of extra funding. Especially as I thought this investment was announced previously.

 

[VauxhallandI]

They don't help themselves sometimes with comms

Tonight there were delays at Seven Sisters due to emergency something or another. Two Enfield Town trains came in late and then there was a Hertford East train in late. I was waiting for a Throbalds stopper.

Two mins before it was due it was announced as cancelled. It was cancelled before it left alive St due to a train fault. If that had been communicated up the line then I would have got on the Hertford East train and got off at Cheshunt.

It's theses little things that can infuriate. Wherever I come from in the country into tend to dread what is awaiting me at Seven Sisters !

 

[scott118]

grenade !

 

[VauxhallandI]

grenade !

Have I missed a private joke?

 

[450.emu]

It was raised on the radio greater anglia is a poisoned chalice and that they wish they never got hold of this franchise is there truth here? Perhaps they regret the abellio greater anglia rebrand last year

terrible thing to say, even if they just think it... then why did they bid for the franchise if it's so bad? Will they be saying the same of their ScotRail franchise in times to come... :roll:

Grenades at Seven Sisters could be an issue, but more realisticly a failed train or downed wires... the populace of Hackney and Haringey aren't that bad yet... :roll:

 

[tsr]

Calling patterns on some peak-time services may be amended later this morning (28/05/15) due to a points failure. There has also been a brief late-night emergency line block put in place due to engineers moving some sort of equipment across the line in the Ingatestone area, causing some delays. Once again, blatantly not AGA's fault - but the sort of thing that will never become excellent PR...

 

[TheEdge]

Calling patterns on some peak-time services may be amended later this morning (28/05/15) due to a points failure

Assuming those are the ones at Chelmsford thats been ongoing for a week or so. AFAIK some of the points used to turn and start peak morning services at Chelmsford have been put out of use by NR.

 

[306024]

It was raised on the radio greater anglia is a poisoned chalice and that they wish they never got hold of this franchise is there truth here? Perhaps they regret the abellio greater anglia rebrand last year

terrible thing to say, even if they just think it... then why did they bid for the franchise if it's so bad? Will they be saying the same of their ScotRail franchise in times to come :roll:

Think you have made 2+2=5 there. It is safe to bet no one from AGA said anything of the sort. AGA have very media savvy spokesmen, which is why they are not getting too embroiled in all this stuff.

Assuming those are the ones at Chelmsford thats been ongoing for a week or so. AFAIK some of the points used to turn and start peak morning services at Chelmsford have been put out of use by NR.

Yes it is the points at the London end of Chelmsford station that are out of use. The same alterations applied a few weeks back for a few days when NR failed to complete the overhead line work above the same crossover.

 

[samuelmorris]

A couple of points:

- Most 375s and quite a few 377s are older than the 360/1s so receiving their refresh first is not surprising.
- The seat covers on 360s have been threadbare since NXEA-days no doubt, but why not just change them? Further, why is it an 'improvements plan' just to change them? I would expect TOCs to just do this for routine maintenance and not even advertise it. Even if they'd changed them two years ago they'd have got a full decade out of them - seat covers can't be that expensive or labour-intensive to replace.
- The Class 357 fleet predates the 360s but they look far less in need of an interior refresh. That line suffers a similar level of passenger disregard and while the stock are not immaculate the seats are usually in pretty good shape. I don't ever recall NX advertising any sort of 'upgrade plan' for the units, they've just got on with the job.

 

[jon0844]

These things are announced for PR purposes. I'm sure Joe Public just thinks every penny goes into the pocket of some fat cat otherwise.

 

[387star]

terrible thing to say, even if they just think it... then why did they bid for the franchise if it's so bad? Will they be saying the same of their ScotRail franchise in times to come... :roll:

Grenades at Seven Sisters could be an issue, but more realisticly a failed train or downed wires... the populace of Hackney and Haringey aren't that bad yet... :roll:

Sorry Greater Anglia did not say this a guest speaker did but I forget who

 

[Dave1987]

Sorry Greater Anglia did not say this a guest speaker did but I forget who

It was Mr Ian Edwards or "Delayed_again" who said that.

IMO opinion the GEML franchise is a poison chalice at the moment. They lost the main revenue earner that is the metros and whoever gets the next franchise is going to be expected to invest huge sums of money for what looks like a 7 year franchise (what happened to the whole 15 year one?). Will be very interesting to see who bids for it and what they are going to do with it. It looks certain that the hauled sets will go by 2019-2020. But as far as GE stock is concerned, who knows at the moment!

 

[samuelmorris]

Are you sure the metro services are the main revenue earner? If I recall correctly, the figures I seem to remember Ian quoting actually seemed to suggest that the mainline commuter services (Southend, Chelmsford, Witham, Colchester) produced the bulk of the revenue - it's easy to see why, usage of Chelmsford station for example is 8 million pa, triple that of stations like Goodmayes and Chadwell Heath, and fares are going to be far higher due to being three times the distance, and a higher cost per mile due to being outside the TfL fare zones.

I'm sure the metro services did earn AGA a fair bit with fully-laden trains that cost comparatively little to maintain running over a dozen times an hour in peak, but with much lower fares inside the M25, I don't think it'll hurt them too much.

I've no baseless anti-Abellio vibe, but I do still think they've done a lesser job of running the line than their predecessors. NXEA may have set things in motion to be bad but AGA have let them continue to grow bad. Ian is quick to point out the DfT are equally at fault for offering franchises that disincentivise investment, but there's a difference between not investing and not looking after. I just get the feeling that had it been, for example, Stagecoach running the line, we may very well still be running around in the same unrefurbished 321s and 317s for the most part, but they wouldn't be in such bad shape, rolling stock shortages would be a little less severe due to somewhat fewer faults and punctuality would be slightly better than it is in reality.
Do I think the line would attain c2c / LOROL levels of punctuality? Certainly not, but I do still think it'd be better, not to mention a little more pleasant to travel on.
I don't expect any TOC to bother massively overhauling a 600+ vehicle strong fleet of multiple units for a 2 year franchise, but I still think Abellio are an inadequate operator I'm afraid and on that basis, I would be disappointed to see them win the long-term franchise as even if they invest, I just get the feeling that their competitors would still make a better job of it.

 

[387star]

NXEA in the eyes of the Dft were doing nothing wrong if I remember correctly as they were meeting targets etc and would not have lost it but for east coast problem... once they knew they were to lose it (forget when ) they no longer tried

Were their 'one' days better? It seemed slightly strange changing to national express branded trains at a time when no refurbishments or new trains save 379s were planned. I guess they were forced to by the head of national express. I think national express branding sounds silly on non express services. It was said at the time they had no plans to rebrand many trains which was fair enough to save money but it made things look very messy even though e 'one' brand just had to go along with an awful livery


'One' did very little to the rural fleet which have finally seen attention by greater anglia but did bring in mk3s to the intercity route and refreshed these (though that was a very modest job) and refreshed the 317/5s (again very modest) and the 315s (again modest).. For some reason in terms of repaints the 317 fleet always gets priority as they have always been the ones to be repainted!

I forget who else was bidding at the time in 2004 and what their plans would have been

 

[badassunicorn]

This is getting absurd now. I use AGA trains every day all day for my job and I don't have "flea bites". All the pictures of seat cushions all over the place is because passengers throw them about. The staff don't go through the trains chucking litter everywhere, the passengers do. Passengers need to take some responsibility and direct some of their anger towards each other. Holding the doors open for their mates at stations is another example. An extra minute or two at each station in the peak soon adds up and knocks on. On the GE, the majority of peak trains are as long as they can be and as frequent as they can be. Yes the interiors are a bit dated, but on the whole they are adequate. As I mentioned before I am on GA trains all day every day and I am very rarely delayed by anything substantial. I think this is a lot of people getting angry unreasonably, and in my opinion you could give them solid gold trains spotless everyday and they would still moan about something.