Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Many thanks for submitting that last link showing the TV advertising for Oswaldtwistle Mills, which I mentioned earlier in the thread.
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Todmorden Curve
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northwichcat
Veteran Member
The revised Northern service patterns show that there will be Blackburn to Southport via Todmorden services as well as Blackburn to Clitheroe via Todmorden services (calling at Blackburn on the way!)
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...5/appendix - service group ed08 marked up.pdf
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...5/appendix - service group ed08 marked up.pdf
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Just so I have read matters correctly, what route (plus starting and finishing stations) would be taken by the single slot taken by ED08.18?
MidnightFlyer
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Wouldn't that be the current 0653 Buxton-Clitheroe, or some variation on it?
Bullfield WEst
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I've just checked prices on northernrail.org from Manchester Victoria to Blackburn (June 18th 2015) for two trains departing 2 min's apart, one via Bolton and the other via Todmorden Curve. The one via Tod is £10.10 and via Bolton is £9.70. As both trains run direct I would have thought the £9.70 fare was valid on both routes. Am I missing something?
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Greater distance travelled, perhaps, via the Copy Pit line?
kevconnor
Member
Can easily see in the event of delays (Farnworth blockade) a number of people possibly getting caught out if there isn't an 'any permitted routes' ticket.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
I expect they'll be a lot of guards saying "next time buy the Any Permitted ticket if you want to catch this service" opposed to asking people to excess tickets for such a small amount.
Doing a little checking on NRE:
The cheaper fare is Route Darwen vs Any Permitted - and is the same from Accrington.
However, try Burnley Stations and the best fare is Route Tod,
The Burnley fare is valid via Hebden Br but the ACR/BBN ones aren't.
I likewise foresee problems here!
The cheaper fare is Route Darwen vs Any Permitted - and is the same from Accrington.
However, try Burnley Stations and the best fare is Route Tod,
The Burnley fare is valid via Hebden Br but the ACR/BBN ones aren't.
I likewise foresee problems here!
I would have thought that during a summer of intense engineering works and consequent restrictions on services over the Darwen Bolton route, Northern Rail might have been happy to encourage some Blackburn/Accrington passengers to go "the long way round" It would also provide (I would have thought) some useful extra passenger numbers over the new Todmorden route, during a period when traffic may need to be built up.
On the other hand, perhaps there are many hundreds of Burnley to Manchester commuters who can't wait for the timetable change so that they can get off those clapped out 18 month old X43 buses and onto a decent Pacer.
I would have thought that during a summer of intense engineering works and consequent restrictions on services over the Darwen Bolton route, Northern Rail might have been happy to encourage some Blackburn/Accrington passengers to go "the long way round" It would also provide (I would have thought) some useful extra passenger numbers over the new Todmorden route, during a period when traffic may need to be built up.
On the other hand, perhaps there are many hundreds of Burnley to Manchester commuters who can't wait for the timetable change so that they can get off those clapped out 18 month old X43 buses and onto a decent Pacer.
I doubt there'd be much uptake from Blackburn unless the service via Bolton were suspended for some reason, with 25 minutes extra journey time. From Accrington either route takes roughly the same time, with the extra risk of a missed connection via Blackburn. There won't be many Accrington passengers anyway with the journey time being slow compared to the roads, and currently no direct services.
According to the 2011 census, there were 85 Burnley(local authority) to Manchester bus commuters, from a total of 365. That really is a very small market for the railway to go in to.
I know the area well, and I certainly won't be tempted away from a comfortable seat on the top deck of a double decker bus where I can enjoy the lovely scenery that much of the X43 bus route has to offer....perhaps there are many hundreds of Burnley to Manchester commuters who can't wait for the timetable change so that they can get off those clapped out 18 month old X43 buses and onto a decent Pacer.
The only factor that would tempt me to use the train would be if the last departure from Manchester in the evening was later than the last X43 departure [23:00] but I have heard that the last departure will in fact be much earlier.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
On the other hand, perhaps there are many hundreds of Burnley to Manchester commuters who can't wait for the timetable change so that they can get off those clapped out 18 month old X43 buses and onto a decent Pacer.
They most surely also will want the additional morning walking exercise to get the old adrenaline flowing as they make the steep hill climb from Burnley town centre up the A682 Manchester Road in readiness for the sight of one of "Newton Heath's Finest" approaching Burnley Manchester Road station in the driving rain that is said to come down "like stair rods" as they cheerily wave to their former travellers on the X43 bus as it roars past them...
lejog said:
Given the relatively short distances of the sides of the Todmorden triangle, would the "within three miles of the shortest route" rule apply, I wonder? Section 3.3 of this forums fares & ticketing guide.
The only available route for Hebden Bridge - Burnley Manchester Road is 'DIRECT'.
What exactly this means is often a mystery. What could possibly be considered direct about journeys from Horsforth to Filey, for example? It can't even be done in one change...
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MidnightFlyer
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Timetable now on the Northern website, placed into the existing timetable 36:
http://www.northernrail.org/pdfs/timetables/20150517/36.pdf
Interesting how the existing timetable 8 (Blackpool-York) says it has cycle spaces but no staff and the above timetable says it has staff but no cycle spaces...
http://www.northernrail.org/pdfs/timetables/20150517/36.pdf
Interesting how the existing timetable 8 (Blackpool-York) says it has cycle spaces but no staff and the above timetable says it has staff but no cycle spaces...
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
I note the first train out of Blackburn (0615) on Monday to Friday is shown as continuing through to Southport.
Bullfield WEst
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It appears to start at Blackpool North Car. M.D. [XNS] as 5J51.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
I have called up a journey on Monday, 18th May, being the 1014 from Rochdale to Blackburn, to see what stops were scheduled and the following are shown:-
1018.....Smithy Bridge
1021.....Littleborough
1030.....Todmorden
1046.....Burnley Manchester Road
1049.....Rose Grove
1100.....Accrington
1112.....Blackburn
I cannot ever recall Smithy Bridge being cited as a stop and also of hearing reasons why Littleborough was not to be included, in past days.
Has anyone any thoughts on this?
1018.....Smithy Bridge
1021.....Littleborough
1030.....Todmorden
1046.....Burnley Manchester Road
1049.....Rose Grove
1100.....Accrington
1112.....Blackburn
I cannot ever recall Smithy Bridge being cited as a stop and also of hearing reasons why Littleborough was not to be included, in past days.
Has anyone any thoughts on this?
northernchris
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Is this to do with the service being extended from the current Kirkby - Todmorden service, so its just maintaining the current stopping patterns on the line?
WatcherZero
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Thought the kirkby was being redirected to serve as wigan-Bolton shuttle during the works.
Darren R
Established Member
Additionally, the services from Vic to Blackburn via Todmorden are running to Clitheroe at weekends, presumably to make up for the absence of trains via Darwen until October. Reversing at Blackburn and taking an hour and three quarters, it's probably quicker to change at Blackburn on to the rail-replacement bus!
Yes, but that is purely to do with the Farnworth work.
Smithy Bridge was always planned as a stop on these services.
On Saturdays they will be extended to Clitheroe, generally keeping the same stopping pattern as on weekdays; on Sundays they will call all stations between Manchester and Clitheroe except Hapton, Huncoat and Rishton. The extension to Clitheroe at weekends is again a consequence of the Farnworth work.
edit:
Forgot to mention, this coming Saturday is the last day the route-learning special will run over the route.
This news item on the Northern website makes a couple of references to a return of a direct service from Blackburn to Manchester via Todmorden. http://www.northernrail.org/news/7680 Perhaps I am nitpicking but, so far as I am aware, direct services to Manchester, at least from Burnley, never ran via Todmorden but used the shorter route via Accrington, Haslingden & Bury. There is no precedent for a Blackburn to Manchester via Todmorden service, so far as I know.
Yes, that is my understanding too. I think the last regular passenger workings over the curve were between Todmorden and Burnley only, until the early 1960s.
L&Y Robert
Member
Yes, you are nitpicking.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
He means a direct service from Blackburn to Manchester, and there was, and probably still is, such a service via Bolton, so it's not a "Return of", more of an "addition to" if you go via Tod. When I commuted to Manchester from Burnley (late 50s/early 60s it'd be) we went via Accrington, up the hill and over to Bury (Bolton St.), thence Clifton Junction and Manchester Vic. Same route back, 17-25 and non-stop Salford to Accrington - Black 5 in charge.
Then you didn't read all of the piece. Paragraph 1 states, "Following a multi-million pound investment and almost a decade of partnership work between Burnley Council, Network Rail, Lancashire County Council and Northern Rail, on Sunday 17 May, a direct Blackburn to Manchester via Burnley service will return to the region."
I used the same route you mention around the same period. The Blackburn to Manchester via Bolton service has run without interruption since L&Y days. If you can show me evidence that trains ever ran to Manchester via Todmorden, I will be fascinated to see it.
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