Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

[Bletchleyite]

You mean like this?

I don't understand Pauls objection to them just sealing up the unused doors and keeping the windows in. That's if I understood that correctly

Yes, that's what I think they propose. A bit like is done with the rear door with just about every bus that moves from London to the provinces. When done properly you can barely tell, if at all.

That will leave 2 sizes of bodyside window. But then as I said the Class 185 barely has two the same size (a particularly stupid design feature resulting in the need for a large selection of spares, not that that class is short of particularly stupid design features when compared to other Desiros).

 

[Peter Sarf]

They might finish up being used in the South.

In which case they would have moving pictures to give the illusion that progress is actually being made by the train in-to/out-of London Bridge. This would also avoid the gruesome image of passengers unable to get on being pressed up against the sides of the train as (should) it departs/arrives !.

 

[WatcherZero]

Because they did show what the sealed up door would look like, and its not exactly barely tellable.

Other thing I just noticed in their various renders, only every third window is openable.

 

[Clip]

Eeeh how did they take that picture without getting the reflection of the camera man in the shot?

 

[HSTEd]

I think it would be far less noticeable if it was painted the same colour as the rest of the train.

 

[ac6000cw]

Eeeh how did they take that picture without getting the reflection of the camera man in the shot?

(because it's not real, just computer created - but I think you knew that )

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think it would be far less noticeable if it was painted the same colour as the rest of the train.

I appear to have found a posting with which I agree upon this thread.
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They might finish up being used in the South.

....or even as a new ride on the Blackpool Pleasure Beach...:roll:

 

[Emblematic]

Other thing I just noticed in their various renders, only every third window is openable.

I think the windows are unchanged from the underground layout. Ignoring the windows that happen to be in the doors (whether operational or welded shut) then the end and centre windows can be opened, the remaining two windows form the door pockets so not really practical to open. Hopefully these units will be air conditioned anyway, and the windows locked shut.
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I think it would be far less noticeable if it was painted the same colour as the rest of the train.

I think the same PRM-TSI regulations that ensure that doors are strongly contrasted from the rest of the train body would mandate that things that might be mistaken for doors are not contrasted in any way at all. Even if not stated, it would be common sense.

 

[southern442]

Eeeh how did they take that picture without getting the reflection of the camera man in the shot?

They hired a vampire to be the cameraman.

 

[superalbs]

Prototype out in May IIRC.

 

[GatwickDepress]

They hired a vampire to be the cameraman.

Good to see Otto Chriek getting work.

 

[samuelmorris]

That particular render (though that's old now, isn't it? Isn't the currently published mock-up the one in red and grey?) makes no sense - the table seems to be attached to the glass of the window. While I'm sure it could have been bolted at a point lower down, it'd be crazy to have the table surface touching the window like that.

 

[WatcherZero]

Would likely be bolted to the replacement wall panel both at the floor level and at table height with Vivarails designers taking the opportunity to make it flush with the window. Way tables and seats are supported on most modern rolling stock is with cantilevering rather than support columns.

 

[Class377/5]

There is pictures in the new Rail of the first unit having the work done plus much up of the seats clearly shown.

 

[southern442]

There is pictures in the new Rail of the first unit having the work done plus much up of the seats clearly shown.

Any pictures online?

 

[Class377/5]

Any pictures online?

Don't know, got my copy of the mag yesterday. Normally out today in the shops.

 

[WatcherZero]

Used to be out in shops on Tuesday afternoons but for the last year or so only seems to come out on Wednesday mornings now.

 

[Class377/5]

Used to be out in shops on Tuesday afternoons but for the last year or so only seems to come out on Wednesday mornings now.

My sub copy can arrive anywhere between Monday and Saturday of release week. Last buying it in person is more reliable.

 

[WatcherZero]

Happens sometimes that magazine publication dates slip slightly after a holiday and don't recover. but yeah it is pretty reliable the day it hits store shelves, Ive given up trying to predict when Modern Rail hits store shelves though, can be anything from Mid month to the first week of the following month.

 

[Mojo]

Just seen that they have started doing some testing of the units in the Railway Gazette.
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/traction-rolling-stock/single-view/view/d-train-crash-test.html
If you go to the above link you'll also see some photos.

UK: A former London Underground D78 car has been crashed into a 3 tonne tank of water as part of the testing programme being carried out in support of Vivarail’s plans to use the bodyshells of the redundant metro trains to create low-cost ‘D-Train’ diesel multiple-units for use on the national rail network.

The crash test aimed to verify that the train driver would be protected in the event of an incident such as such as a level crossing collision with a farm vehicle.

As part of the rebuilding project Vivarail has ‘substantially strengthened’ the cab’s steel casing and moved the driver’s seat further back from the window. Creactive designed the cab and enhanced safety structure, with input from Simpact which develops protective structures and restraint systems for the automotive industry.

The test was held at the Quinton Rail Technology Centre on a former military site at London Marston on May 8. Test track operator Motorail has experience of running crash tests to industry standards, and TRL provided independent monitoring and will produce a full report. The D-Train was pushed to a speed of 26 km/h, and released 80 m from the collision point.

‘We believed that the original aluminium bodies were of sufficient quality and strength and had been so well maintained by Long Underground that the D-Train would be more than up to the challenge’, said Vivarail. ‘However, as with all elements of our train we wanted to out-perform expectations and so it was important to us to prove the original train was in perfect structural condition and that our work to strengthen and increase the cab's structural integrity would provide the additional protection we intended.’

‘From a preliminary visual inspection of the train cab, it appears that the enhanced safety cell structure has improved the crash performance of the cab, maintaining a suitable survival base and protection offered to the driver’, said Mike Pittman, Principal Consultant at TRL. ‘Final results of the test will be released in the coming month.’

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Good article. I was about to post a different one.
26kmph doesn't sound fast (even for these SnailRail trains).
Would it survive a crash at 50mph is what matters.
The train looks worse than the artists impression late last year.
Is it just yellow paint and a new cab they've done already?

 

[northwichcat]

Good article. I was about to post a different one.
26kmph doesn't sound fast (even for these SnailRail trains).
Would it survive a crash at 50mph is what matters.
The train looks worse than the artists impression late last year.
Is it just yellow paint and a new cab they've done already?

Yes it's good to know the driver will survive if the train crashes in to a stationary object at 16mph. The story is also on the Vivarail site: http://www.vivarail.co.uk/the-point-of-no-return/

However, given the damage caused at 16mph I'm not sure the conclusion would be positive at 50mph.

 

[Domh245]

I suspect that if they tested a collision at 50mph, the structure would be deemed beyond economic repair, even if the driver survived. What is more likely is that they carried out a number of computer simulations at various speeds, angles, and weights, and then did this test to verify that their simulations were correct. You wouldn't want to go and crash your train at 50mph and write it off in a test, because it is then one less train that can be sold.

From the looks of it, the reinforcement has been riveting some plate to the underside of the windows and over the central door, as well as what appears to be some internal reinforcement running above the nearside doors, a beam across the central door, and triangulation posts running down the side of the door as well.

At 50mph (80kph), there would be approximately 16x as much energy involved in this kind of collision (4 times the speed, squared relationship) and given that the main crash structures have barely deformed, I think that a collision at 50mph would be survivable from the point of view of the driver.

On a side note, I see that they haven't removed the Tripcock Isolating valve from this unit. I am guessing this is because this unit that has had the crash structure modifications made, tested, and will then go off to be converted properly.

 

[northwichcat]

On a side note, I see that they haven't removed the Tripcock Isolating valve from this unit. I am guessing this is because this unit that has had the crash structure modifications made, tested, and will then go off to be converted properly.

Can still be used on Chiltern routes then.
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A post from Tony Miles on wnxx suggests the shortlisted Northern bidders were never really interested in taking on D-Trains but looked in to them so that they can give reasons for rejecting their use on Northern routes.

 

[t_star2001uk]

Can still be used on Chiltern routes then.

Would we really want them on the Chiltern route ??????

 

[northwichcat]

Would we really want them on the Chiltern route ??????

I don't think anyone wants them but it's actually difficult to come up with reasons why they are unsuitable for some Chiltern services. Long formations are possible, Chiltern services run on lines with low line speeds and using them there would free up faster trains for routes where 60mph aren't suitable.

 

[t_star2001uk]

I don't think anyone wants them but it's actually difficult to come up with reasons why they are unsuitable for some Chiltern services. Long formations are possible, Chiltern services run on lines with low line speeds and using them there would free up faster trains for routes where 60mph aren't suitable.

So only from Princes Risboro to Aylesbury then.

 

[DaiGog]

Forgive me if this has already been said (I'm not about to sift through 100 pages!) but there are a number of places where these trains could be viable - such as the Cornish branches, Thames Valley branches, Severn Beach, Greenford, Lowestoft, Yarmouth, Felixtowe, Marple, Harrogate, Barton on Humber. All are off the main line and largely self-contained so as not to get in the way of anything else, but any economic benefit of keeping them all together would be lost as it would be impossible with up to 60 units. The most logical place for them, taking both of these factors into account, would be the Cardiff Valleys but these are being electified, so there would be little point.

In all honesty I can see countries like Romania, Bulgaria, etc buying them but I can't imagine any take-up in the UK.

 

[northwichcat]

So only from Princes Risboro to Aylesbury then.

Apparently Marylebone to Princes Risborough/Aylesbury services struggle to get above 60mph.

 

[t_star2001uk]

I can just hear it now "sorry ladies and gentlemen but you 100mph service is being delayed by a 60mph ex underground train"
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Apparently Marylebone to Princes Risborough/Aylesbury services struggle to get above 60mph.

When i drove my 165 to Bicester last night i quite happily blasted along at 75mph (where the line speeds allow of course)