Stagecoach East Scotland

[overthewater]

What is going on; I've heard a number of things.

Stagecoach may have lost alot or all of its School contracts, in relation to the West Fife re-tending process. This in turn could see the Cowdenbeath depot closing.

It makes no scene, since the depot would still have its commercial bus duties. None of the other depots have space for all the duties.

Who knows.

 

[mbonwick]

New depot at Kirkcaldy to free space at Glenrothes/Cowdenbeath is also doing the rounds at the moment...

 

[overthewater]

New depot at Kirkcaldy to free space at Glenrothes/Cowdenbeath is also doing the rounds at the moment...

Crumbs thats the complete opposite. Mind you there is land set aside for a new depot next to the Halbeath Park n ride, if required.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Since nothing has been signed its not set in stone!

It seems the rumour are all linked to Stagecoach loses alot of School and council contracts to Bay Travel and others, some are say 7 contracts, some are saying 60 jobs.

Because of that, the Cowdenbeath depot would close, with most of its commercial work: No17,18,19,33, 56, and peak workings on the express network moving to Dunfermline.

To help find room, Rennies will now deal with all the remaining school contracts, but will lose its Citylink work to Perth or Dundee, to help free up space. I can't see how Dunfermline has the room for 25 more buses;

EDIT: it make even less since because Cowdenbeath operates some of the school contracts for Kirkcaldy area, which would be kept....

If this is all true, it will be interesting times ahead....

 

[mbonwick]

Cowdenbeath's PVR aside from schools is 30-odd, perfectly viable to remain as a depot or at least an outstation.

Not sure if Dunfermline are affected by the contract losses, but their current schools PV is 14 - not sure Rennies could accomodate this much extra work even if Citylink moved out.

 

[overthewater]

Cowdenbeath's PVR aside from schools is 30-odd, perfectly viable to remain as a depot or at least an outstation.

Not sure if Dunfermline are affected by the contract losses, but their current schools PV is 14 - not sure Rennies could accomodate this much extra work even if Citylink moved out.

This is what I can't understand, Cowdenbeath would have 35 buses, plus there have around 6 peak runs. Im not sure how the fleet cards work, especial 0.5! it also fails to have K7/K8 which is another two which are interlinked with school work in Kirkcaldy.

Afternoon peaks:
Two runs - 55/X55. - E300 ( I think thats getting cut to one in may)
One run on the X27. - DD
one round short trip: on X24. - DD
One or two trip on the X53 - B7 coaches.
Plus four buses for Kirkcaldy school runs, which are staying

Nearly all the school buses are interlinked with service work thus Cowdenbeth should still have approx 40 buses, even if there have indeed lost all the school work plus No81 and 17A/B.

Again with the fleet lists, Dunfermline is missing 6 PVR
No2 - 2 deckers
No6 - 2 deckers
No10/11 another 2 deckers,
No8: is missing one aswell
All of these are interlinked with school work, plus add in the peaks, its around 63-65 without school work, and if you take out the council contracts routes, 6 buses that means Dunfermline depot would still have around 57-59 buses?

It been said some school work has been kept. But there clearly 8-10 buses which would be used in public service, so its unlikely there move to Rennies.

Of course Stagecoach could have won the contracts held by First Scotland east, which would be around 8.

Nothing is making since :?

 

[Stan Drews]

They class peak time as school time when they work out the PVR, so the local services that work around schools don't get classed as using a peak vehicle. That's why the school services have such a high PVR.

I heard they'd lost almost half the school contracts they currently do in west Fife.

 

[overthewater]

Cheers for the explanation.

Of course, it all depends on where half the school contracts where lost. It also depends If Stagecoach has managed to pick up any contracts off the others like First.

To be fair it would be Rennis which could be in trouble.....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
####

There is another twist to this story. All the contracts had a few different options, which included ideas for school runs to be with and without being interlink. So it possible Stagecoach may have retained most ( its already know Bay travel have won a few, but what???) of the non school contracts but with no school work integrated, so that could also reduce the loses.

 

[jamieintercity]

One of the first hybrids for the 73 'tayway', 13043 was being delivered today, not sure if it's at arbroath or dundee.

 

[TaysideTrainz]

Photos of the new branding can be seen here --> https://flic.kr/p/sgVCge

 

[mbonwick]

Stagecoach Fife received a formal S17 warning as to their licence undertakings at a PI in February, not sure what it was in relation to.

 

[83G/84D]

Does St Andrew's still have an open top bus in use in the summer? If so what bus is normally used and is there a back up?

I am up that way in a few weeks (mid May) and wondered if it was worth looking in there as last time I was there it was out of season.

 

[robertclark125]

E400 19555 has had its lower deck front windscreen of single piece replaced with a two piece.

 

[Liam]

Does St Andrew's still have an open top bus in use in the summer? If so what bus is normally used and is there a back up?

I am up that way in a few weeks (mid May) and wondered if it was worth looking in there as last time I was there it was out of season.

17515 (chopped off Trident) is the St Andrews open top, I think (but not entirely sure) Titan 11093 is still stored somewhere (Aberhill probably) for hires or cover.

But......The open top tour does not start until mid June, basically the period the 92 (Uni halls bus) doesn't run.

 

[robertclark125]

11093 was kept at Forfar outstation. However, it has recently been sighted heading down the A90 at Errol, so it could be anywhere now.

 

[83G/84D]

17515 (chopped off Trident) is the St Andrews open top, I think (but not entirely sure) Titan 11093 is still stored somewhere (Aberhill probably) for hires or cover.

But......The open top tour does not start until mid June, basically the period the 92 (Uni halls bus) doesn't run.

Thanks Liam, looks like I'll miss the Trident unless it is parked up at another depot and visible.

 

[overthewater]

Thanks Liam, looks like I'll miss the Trident unless it is parked up at another depot and visible.

I take it 83G/84D your coming up for the SVBM running day in mid may?

####

Are some of the Tri axle scania off the road? there seems to be alot of E300 on the No55 at the moment.

What is a S17 warning :?

 

[Stan Drews]

11093 was kept at Forfar outstation. However, it has recently been sighted heading down the A90 at Errol, so it could be anywhere now.

11093 was sold, and is now with someone down in the Lancashire area, I believe.

 

[83G/84D]

I take it 83G/84D your coming up for the SVBM running day in mid may?

####

Are some of the Tri axle scania off the road? there seems to be alot of E300 on the No55 at the moment.

What is a S17 warning :?

Yes I am coming up for the event. Thanks for your Glasgow advice, I had a good week visiting various places and saw lots of buses that I had not seen before. I managed to get to Clydebank, Partick, Dumbarton, Coatbridge, Airdrie,Aberdeen, Kilmarnock, Ayr, Cumnock, Stirling and Falkirk!

Also spent some time in Glasgow itself so thanks again.

 

[overthewater]

It seems the Cowdenbeath depot is heading for the bin, but even with the losses, as others have said the depot should have no trouble being kept open. Has a good number of people got the wrong end of the stick?

Just to point out the new council contacts are for a seven year period.

 

[KendalKing]

What is a S17 warning :?

Section 17

Revocation, suspension etc. of licences.

(1)The traffic [F1commissioner] by whom a standard licence was granted shall revoke the licence if it appears to [F1him] at any time that the holder no longer satisfies the requirement to be of good repute, the requirement to be of appropriate financial standing or the requirement as to professional competence.

(2)Without prejudice to subsection (1) above, the traffic [F2commissioner] by whom a PSV operator’s licence was granted may, on any of the grounds specified in subsection (3) below, at any time—

(a)revoke the licence;

[F3(aa)that any undertaking recorded in the licence has not been fulfilled;]

(b)suspend the licence for such period as [F4he directs]. . .;

F5(c). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

(d)vary any condition attached under subsection (1) of section 16 of this Act to the licence, or attach to the licence (whether in addition to or in place of any existing condition so attached to it) any such condition as is mentioned in that subsection.

(3)The grounds for action under subsection (2) above are—

(a)that the holder of the licence made or procured to be made for the purposes of his application for the licence, or for the purposes of an application for a variation of the licence, a statement of fact which (whether to his knowledge or not) was false, or a statement of F6. . . expectation which has not been fulfilled;

(b)that there has been a contravention of any condition attached to the licence;

(c)that a prohibition under F7[M1section 69 of the Road Traffic Act 1988] has been imposed with respect to a vehicle owned or operated by the holder of the licence, or that the holder of the licence has been convicted of an offence under [section 71(1)(a) or (b) of that Act arising out of the contravention of such a prohibition];

(d)in the case of a restricted licence, that the holder no longer satisfies the requirement to be of good repute or the requirement to be of appropriate financial standing;

(e)that there has been since the licence was granted or varied a material change in any of the circumstances of the holder of the licence which were relevant to the grant or variation of his licence.

[F8(f)the licence is one in relation to which a direction given by a traffic commissioner under section 28(4) of the Transport Act 1985 (power when disqualifying a former licence holder to direct that certain other PSV operators’ licences should be liable to be revoked, suspended, etc.) has effect]

(4)[F9A traffic commissioner] shall not take any action under subsection (1) or (2) above in respect of any licence without first holding [F10an inquiry] if the holder of the licence requests [F11him] to do so.

(5)Where [F12a traffic commissioner decides] to revoke a licence under this section, [F13he] may direct that the revocation shall not take effect for such period as appears to [F13him] reasonably required to enable the business carried on under the licence to be transferred to another person duly licensed to carry it on.

[F14(5A)Where a licence is suspended under this section, it remains in force during the time of its suspension subject to the limitation that no vehicles are authorised to be used under it.

(5B)A traffic commissioner who has suspended a licence under this section may at any time—

(a)cancel the suspension; or

(b)with the consent of the holder of the licence, vary the period for which it is suspended.]

(6)The provisions of Schedule 3 to this Act shall apply for the purposes of subsections (1) and (3)(d) above as they apply for the purposes of section 14(1) of this Act.

Annotations: Help about Annotation
Amendments (Textual)
F1
Word substituted by Transport Act 1985 (c. 67, SIF 126), s. 3(5), Sch. 2 Pt. II para. 4(8)(a)
F2
Word substituted by Transport Act 1985 (c. 67, SIF 126), s. 3(5), Sch. 2 Pt. II para. 4(8)(b)
F3
S. 17(2)(aa) inserted (1.1.1996) by 1994 c. 40, s. 59(6); S.I. 1995/2835, art. 2
F4
Words substituted by Transport Act 1985 (c. 67, SIF 126), s. 3(5), Sch. 2 Pt. II para. 4(8)(b)
F5
S. 17(2)(c) omitted (1.1.1996) by virtue of 1994 c. 40, ss. 68, 81(1), Sch. 14 para. 5(2)(a), Sch. 17; S.I. 1995/2835, art. 2
F6
Words in s. 17(3)(a) omitted (1.1.1996) by virtue of 1994 c. 40, ss. 68, 81(1), Sch. 14 para. 5(2)(a), Sch. 17; S.I. 1995/2835, art. 2
F7
Words in s. 17(3)(c) substituted (3.1.1995) by 1994 c. 40, s. 68, Sch. 14, para. 5(2)(b); S.I. 1994/3188, art. 3
F8
S. 17(3)(f) added by Transport Act 1985 (c. 67, SIF 126), s. 139(2), Sch. 7 para. 21(5)
F9
Words substituted by Transport Act 1985 (c. 67, SIF 126), s. 3(5), Sch. 2 Pt. II para. 4(8)(c)
F10
Words substituted by Transport Act 1985 (c. 67, SIF 126), s. 139(2), Sch. 7 para. 21(6)
F11
Word substituted by Transport Act 1985 (c. 67, SIF 126), s. 3(5), Sch. 2 Pt. II para. 4(8)(c)
F12
Words substituted by Transport Act 1985 (c. 67, SIF 126), s. 3(5), Sch. 2 Pt. II para. 4(8)(d)
F13
Word substituted by Transport Act 1985 (c. 67, SIF 126), s. 3(5), Sch. 2 Pt. II para. 4(8)(d)
F14
S. 17(5A)(5B) inserted (3.1.1995) by 1994 c. 40, s. 62(3); S.I. 1994/3188, art. 3
Modifications etc. (not altering text)
C1
S. 17(1) amended by S.I. 1986/1628, reg. 5(1), Sch.
C2
S. 17(2) modified by Transport Act 1985 (c. 67, SIF 126), s. 28(4)
C3
S. 17(3)(d) excluded by Transport Act 1985 (c. 67, SIF 126), s. 12(13)(a)
Marginal Citations
M1
1988 c. 52.

 

[overthewater]

It should be August when Cowdenbeath shuts, if it really does happen.

Its unclear what new routes if any will be operated, by Bay travel. Also it seem Festival travel may have also increased its work load. Some but no all the contracts it seems have been signed.

But hey why should the public get to know about seven year contracts, and if there are best for the public purse. Let lone making sure the new council routes actually provide the best service or operate to what people actually want, I doubt it.

 

[Jamester]

O/T Trident 17515 is currently at Aberhill.

It would appear that Cowdenbeath depot is set to close. A petition is in place to save it from closure. I have no idea about school contracts. Plans to close Glenrothes and open a depot in Kirkcaldy have apparently been shelved.

The rumours about service work is that all 19s moving to Dunfermline. Dunfermline portion of Glasgow workings to move to Aberhill, possibly some to Glenrothes. 33&34 to move to Glenrothes with Aberhill covering 32s, 18 and K7/K8. All RUMOUR at the moment!

 

[Liam]

I would not be at all surprised if in the next few years we see a large depot at Halbeath with both Cowdenbeath and Dunfermline depots closed. Space is already very tight at all the Fife depots, St Leonards simply doesn't have any more room for the Cowdenbeath fleet too.

 

[overthewater]

I would not rule out the "Express coaches" moving to Rennies, it has plenty of space and can also clean out the loo's.

Its possible No19 and lets not forget the No747, (21 buses) could move to Dunfermline, BUT it would mean Stagecoach losing all its day time council work ie 28, 87, 88, 89, along with the school work. Of course again where would the No56/17 go? Have Glenrothes/Cowdenbeath losted the no81?

I do believe Bay travel has won the 17A/B, and 89, what else have there won? This would give a very good clue, and indication how much free space will be created.

 

[jamieintercity]

9 of the 18 hybrids for the 73 'tayway' are now at arbroath depot
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Launch of the new hybrids for the 73 is on the 25th of May
https://www.stagecoachbus.com/73tayway.aspx

 

[overthewater]

Service No51 between Fife and Livingston has done very well for its self on the new timetable. I would say passenger numbers are up, even thought its the first day of the enhance timetable (not really but Monday bank holiday was just a test bed).

Just a shame people in Kirkliston haven't utilised the service fully yet.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


The following is happening:

Stagecoach has won: 28, 71 81, 83, 87, 88 Evening and Sunday Town services

Bay Travel has won: 17A, 17B, 20, 89

IF this is Correct: First has won the No6 evening and Sunday service.

So Stagecoach has lost 4 buses with of council work, and to be honest most of the losts were not the best routes.

Don't know what is going on with the School work.

 

[83G/84D]

Solo 47873 which I believe is based at St Andrews was in Perth this morning on service 36,is that a regular working?

 

[Liam]

Solo 47873 which I believe is based at St Andrews was in Perth this morning on service 36,is that a regular working?

Yes, it's the 35 from Cupar then returns to Newburgh as a 36 then 94 back to St Andrews.

 

[83G/84D]

9 of the 18 hybrids for the 73 'tayway' are now at arbroath depot
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Launch of the new hybrids for the 73 is on the 25th of May
https://www.stagecoachbus.com/73tayway.aspx

An unbranded example was at the SVBM event today.The driver stated there are 14 out of the 18 with route branding.As stated the launch day is Monday week.

 

[jamieintercity]

An unbranded example was at the SVBM event today.The driver stated there are 14 out of the 18 with route branding.As stated the launch day is Monday week.

the unbranded example at the SVBM was 13043 along with elitei X7 branded 54238