General Election 2015 - Thoughts/Predictions/Results

[ainsworth74]

Any case like that of your relative is appalling, but I am also sure it is down to crass individuals more than Government policy.

I believe DarloRich will be referring to the Bedroom Tax with that post. It's a policy which I could support but not in its present form. As DarloRich's relative and thousands of others are finding even if you're perfectly willing to downsize to a smaller property (you're on the waiting list for example) you'll still be subject to a reduction in the amount of Housing Benefit you can receive until you actually move to a smaller property. You'l forgive me but that doesn't seem fair.

This isn't one 'crass individual' (though they certainly don't help matters) but it is Government policy as that is the way the policy was written and implemented by Government.

 

[DarloRich]

I believe DarloRich will be referring to the Bedroom Tax with that post. It's a policy which I could support but not in its present form. As DarloRich's relative and thousands of others are finding even if you're perfectly willing to downsize to a smaller property (you're on the waiting list for example) you'll still be subject to a reduction in the amount of Housing Benefit you can receive until you actually move to a smaller property. You'l forgive me but that doesn't seem fair.

This isn't one 'crass individual' (though they certainly don't help matters) but it is Government policy as that is the way the policy was written and implemented by Government.

Correct - and i don't necessarily think the policy is bad or evil on paper - just that it is implementation is done in the the most cack handed fashion possible and seems designed to take no human factors into consideration and to punish people for being poor.

 

[Butts]

I believe DarloRich will be referring to the Bedroom Tax with that post. It's a policy which I could support but not in its present form. As DarloRich's relative and thousands of others are finding even if you're perfectly willing to downsize to a smaller property (you're on the waiting list for example) you'll still be subject to a reduction in the amount of Housing Benefit you can receive until you actually move to a smaller property. You'l forgive me but that doesn't seem fair.

This isn't one 'crass individual' (though they certainly don't help matters) but it is Government policy as that is the way the policy was written and implemented by Government.

Totally agree with that sentiment which I believe is Liberal Democrat Policy.

 

[Oswyntail]

Correct - and i don't necessarily think the policy is bad or evil on paper - just that it is implementation is done in the the most cack handed fashion possible and seems designed to take no human factors into consideration and to punish people for being poor.

I think we can agree on something, then!
Generically speaking, I do get frustrated with the tendency (which has been around since the '70s at least) to dismiss the policies of those one doesn't agree with as being totally wrong, rather than understanding what they are about and finding ways to make them better (This applies everywhere, not just in politics). In this case (and not commenting on Darlorich), I don't think for one moment that anyone wishes to punish people for being poor, but that is the tenor of the whole approach to the policy - and has been since before anyone knew the details. This in turn leads to over-enthusiastic front line staff either second-guessing what they are "really" meant to do, or deliberately countering the policy - hence a self-fulfilling situation such as DR describes. A lead should come from the top. The job of the Opposition is not to jeer, but to examine Government proposals, understand them, find and help revise to iron out the flaws. "This is not how we would address the problem, but....". I have seen this approach taken, and work, during the Lords debates on the Health bill. The proper parties are all so close, facing the same problems, that a bit of maturity in opposition would do wonders.

 

[kylemore]

Oh yeh? How's the Scottish NHS doing? (For instance)

Not bad thanks - not perfect by any means but a lot better than the the trust ridden, increasingly handed over to dodgy private healthcare firms mess over the border.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Does it really cost that much compared to England? In England you can get unlimited prescriptions for £104 a year. Most people in England pay less than that, and indeed a lot of people pay nothing. I would guess a lot of people get free eye tests through work and opticians regularly have free eye test offers.

Exactly, it's just good management - not the vastly expensive profligacy at the poor English taxpayer's expense so beloved of UKippers and the like.

But hey! We're used to it.

 

[CC 72100]

In the BBC's election coverage, one feature is going to the Youngest, Oldest, Richest and Poorest constituencies.

Although it seems that the journalist thinks that it is 2005 and not 2015.

I'm running an hour late thanks to chaos on the London Underground, caused by a derailed engineering train. But the journey to Nottingham on a half-empty Midland Mainline train is uneventful.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32414143

And another train company is created here:

So as I slump in my seat on the last train out of Preston to London, shortly before 21:00, after a brief Northern Trains run from Blackburn, something suddenly occurs to me.

Before the "you pedant" bandwagon jumps at me, it just amused me, yes there are more serious issues, no it doesn't make a major difference blah blah blah

 

[northwichcat]

And another train company is created here:

ATW and Virgin managed stations both wrongly used to announce services as Northern Trains.

ATW still refer to 'Northern Trains' in their timetables. See Page 7 of the new timetable 4: http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/timetables/

Maybe Northern should insist on calling them Arriva Rail Wales & Borders until they get it right.

 

[syorksdeano]

So the latest election comments have come from Farage who claimed that only 'white middle class people' call UKIP racist.....

Well I have been called lots of things in my time but never middle class

 

[northwichcat]

So the latest election comments have come from Farage who claimed that only 'white middle class people' call UKIP racist.....

Well I have been called lots of things in my time but never middle class

Stacey Solomon called UKIP racist on a TV program. Middle class must have changed if it includes a woman in her mid 20s with limited education, who has two children with two different fathers and isn't currently in a relationship with either.

 

[TheKnightWho]

So the latest election comments have come from Farage who claimed that only 'white middle class people' call UKIP racist.....

Well I have been called lots of things in my time but never middle class

His more recent comments are starting to betray the fact that he's surrounding himself with yesmen from a very specific group: his hardcore supporters. Stuff like this, which is a common UKIP myth but one that their leader ought to know better about, is a prime example. Rubbish about hospital parking fees in the leaders' debates (!) does too - it's obvious it's something one of his close friends moaned about etc. There are a few others.

Whilst this sort of thing might appeal to his core voters, who seem to have a few fantasies about what's important for the country and (more importantly) the sort of people that oppose them, this will utterly turn off swing voters. He's been shooting himself in the foot time after time. It really reminds me of the Republican "race to the right" in the US, where in courting people of a certain political point of view they end up tearing themselves apart through the ridiculous and often contradictory statements they have to make to do so.

Also, my girlfriend might be middle-class, but I don't think she's forgotten her mum's from Hong Kong... The only reason he and his supporters believe that statement is because if it's true it absolves them of any reason to do anything about some of the prevalent racial issues inside the party. It's also hilarious when juxtaposed against the usual comments about people "using the race card" as with the recent deposition of Lutfur Rahman of Tower Hamlets, or when Farage agreed that large number of immigrants over the past decades were hurting UKIP's chances (subsequently redacted). You can't have it both ways UKIP! Either it's only white people complaining or there are lots of non-white people crying about how racist "good, hard-working British people" are (as though he thinks that can only apply to white people...)

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Are you ill ?

No, its just the case of the lefties on here not understanding what will happen if Labour is let back in.



I'll actually add this too: http://i2.wp.com/national-liberation.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/LabourPoster.png and here is a printable version too: http://i0.wp.com/national-liberation.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Diane-Abbott.png

So whose the "racist" party now?

 

[TheKnightWho]

No, its just the case of the lefties on here not understanding what will happen if Labour is let back in.



I'll actually add this too: http://i2.wp.com/national-liberation.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/LabourPoster.png and here is a printable version too: http://i0.wp.com/national-liberation.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Diane-Abbott.png

So whose the "racist" party now?

For a start, that isn't racism. Or would you be just as outraged for Labour saying "putting working class people first"? Racism is a system of oppression - black people are not systematically oppressing white people.

Perhaps more importantly though, it's photoshopped.

Christ, the victim complexes on here from the people that claim to hate self-victimisation and love "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" is hilarious.

 

[Manchester77]

No, its just the case of the lefties on here not understanding what will happen if Labour is let back in.

So whose the "racist" party now?

You seem to be implying the modern UK Labour party is left wing, is this a mistake?

And probably still the many UKIP candidates which have said racist things considering; as has been proven above; that poster is fake.

 

[GatwickDepress]

For a start, that isn't racism. Or would you be just as outraged for Labour saying "putting working class people first"? Racism is a system of oppression - black people are not systematically oppressing white people.

Perhaps more importantly though, it's photoshopped.

Christ, the victim complexes on here from the people that claim to hate self-victimisation and love "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" is hilarious.

Huh, so a poster from the National Liberation hate group happens to contain more bollocks than a Poundland pasty. Colour me surprised*.

*as long as you use a white crayon.

 

[TOCDriver]

You seem to be implying the modern UK Labour party is left wing, is this a mistake?

And probably still the many UKIP candidates which have said racist things considering; as has been proven above; that poster is fake.

Labour's Diane Abbott is as racist as they come - never hear that mentioned from the lefties.

 

[GatwickDepress]

Labour's Diane Abbott is as racist as they come - never hear that mentioned from the lefties.

You can hear it quite a lot; but certainly not in mainstream left wing (not that Labour is left anymore) circles.

Certainly when I did Government and Politics, Diane Abbott was held up by the (very left-wing, this was a college after all!) studentry as an example of left-wing nuttery .

That said, I think there's more than enough to criticise Diane Abbott for without making up nonsense though. Supporting homeopathy, "complaining that "blonde, blue-eyed Finnish girls" in her local hospital were unsuitable as nurses... take your pick.

 

[St Rollox]

Labour's Diane Abbott is as racist as they come - never hear that mentioned from the lefties.

Can't stop laughing at your post.

Think the BNP/NF might sign her up?

 

[ainsworth74]

Think the BNP/NF might sign her up?

Well if I'm interpreting things correctly (and there's no guarantee I am) I believe her racism is rather the opposite of theirs so it probably wouldn't be a good fit all in all

 

[St Rollox]

Well if I'm interpreting things correctly (and there's no guarantee I am) I believe her racism is rather the opposite of theirs so it probably wouldn't be a good fit all in all

Calling Diane Abbott a racist is up there with calling Maggie Thatcher a socialist.

 

[Butts]

Calling Diane Abbott a racist is up there with calling Maggie Thatcher a socialist.

If he'd said hypocrite, with regard to sending her kids to a School out of kilter with Labour's Educational Policy, that may have had some foundation.

 

[ExRes]

Whether Abbot is innately racist or just plain stupid is a matter of personal judgement I would have thought, but I fail to see why a non white person can't be called a racist when they've been quoted making comments that would clearly be called racist if they were made by a white about non whites

 

[TheKnightWho]

Whether Abbot is innately racist or just plain stupid is a matter of personal judgement I would have thought, but I fail to see why a non white person can't be called a racist when they've been quoted making comments that would clearly be called racist if they were made by a white about non whites

For the exact reason that I've linked to above. Racism is not just discrimination based on race, which obviously anyone can do to anyone. The reason why that isn't a useful definition is that it's not always a bad thing - indeed, affirmative action (whilst controversial) is popular in America with large swathes of people, many of whom don't benefit from it.

Racism, which is where there's discrimination and oppression against a particular group, on the other hand is always bad. It's hard to argue that white people are oppressed in this country, but when black people (and more recently Arabic people) face heavy discrimination against them in various walks of life it's hard to argue that they're not oppressed to some degree.

 

[Antman]

So the latest election comments have come from Farage who claimed that only 'white middle class people' call UKIP racist.....

Well I have been called lots of things in my time but never middle class

As reluctant as I am to get involved in these repetitive arguments it has to be pointed out that putting the indigenous population first is not racism.

 

[northwichcat]

As reluctant as I am to get involved in these repetitive arguments it has to be pointed out that putting the indigenous population first is not racism.

Farage has previously implied immigration from western EU countries like France and Germany* can be good but immigration from eastern EU countries like Poland and Romania has been a bad thing.

* Farage being of French origin and being married to a German lady.

 

[Antman]

Farage has previously implied immigration from western EU countries like France and Germany* can be good but immigration from eastern EU countries like Poland and Romania has been a bad thing.

* Farage being of French origin and being married to a German lady.

His origin and who he is married too is irrelevant.

I would agree with him, France and Germany are on a par with the UK. Eastern European countries are not and the only reason they are in the EU is for the unlimited supply of cheap labour. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.

 

[TheKnightWho]

His origin and who he is married too is irrelevant.

I would agree with him, France and Germany are on a par with the UK. Eastern European countries are not and the only reason they are in the EU is for the unlimited supply of cheap labour. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.

That, Antman, is racism...

You might not intend it to be, but what you're essentially doing is lumping all people from a particular area as unsuitable because of their origin, which is a form of racism.

 

[Antman]

That, Antman, is racism...

You might not intend it to be, but what you're essentially doing is lumping all people from a particular area as unsuitable because of their origin, which is a form of racism.

As usual you think you can shout down anything you disagree with by playing the racism card:roll:

 

[Johnuk123]

That, Antman, is racism...

You might not intend it to be, but what you're essentially doing is lumping all people from a particular area as unsuitable because of their origin, which is a form of racism.

That's unlike you calling another poster a racist - how very untypical.

 

[TheKnightWho]

That's unlike you calling another poster a racist - how very untypical.

So the outrage is over calling someone racist, and not racist comments themselves.

Christ, the lack of self-awareness is hilarious.

As usual you think you can shout down anything you disagree with by playing the racism card:roll:

Once again, the right-wing moans, complains and whines when people say nasty things they don't like. But when they say nasty things it's suddenly all about free speech! Why don't you try telling me why it's not racist, rather than getting uppity whilst actually saying nothing.

You're discriminating against people based on their broad geographical area - Eastern Europe. If that's not racism then I really don't know what is. Just because that's hard to accept doesn't mean it's not true.

 

[Johnuk123]

So the outrage is over calling someone racist, and not racist comments.

Christ, the lack of self-awareness is hilarious.

So you're not calling him a racist but you're saying he's made racist comments ?