Stagecoach North West Discussion

[Stonesourscotty]

Arriva put Leather Seated buses through some very scruffy areas of Skelmersdale and First did with some scruffy areas of Wigan (First learned the hard way when their Geminis got vandalised in Kitt Green)

Anything is possible with public transport

 

[chiltern trev]

Well as a regular bus user (everyday for work)

This has got to be the most stupid idea I have ever heard

But of course stagecoach are only interested in greed profit not passengers interests

I would be interested to know why you consider it "to be the most stupid idea.."

And where you are a regular bus user?

I have re read the original News and Star article which states:

"Stagecoach is preparing to replace its new bus fleet in Carlisle with midibuses.

It says the smaller vehicles, which can seat up to 37 passengers..."

The above quote is as stated in the News and Star - it is not a direct verbal quote from a Stagecoach person as verbal quotes do appear elsewhere in the article - so interesting as to the exact source of the text. The It says refers to Stagecoach.

Note that ...can seat up to 37... . The article does not explicitly state that the replacement Solos will seat 37. So the seating capacity is perhaps open to speculation - maybe some will or maybe they all wont as suggested by mbonwick.

I live near Carlisle and for the most time E200s on city services are not usually 100% full and do not normally carry standing passengers - but then I may be viewing them at quieter times. Any buses used on the city services have an easy time compared to elsewhere - no stop/start like London, limited congestion, no challenging hills, there are a few inclines or slopes but these are no problem even for a full bus.

The article also quotes a Stagecoach person "They are smaller, lighter and more fuel efficient, and environmentally friendly and are a more appropriate size for operating in the Carlisle urban area."

So if the E200s are not full and Stagecoach wish to maintain existing frequencies, looks like Solos are a cheaper option.


Also from the Stagecoach website http://www.stagecoach.com/media/news-releases/2015/2015-03-10.aspx lists:

Details of the new orders are as follows:
UK REGIONAL OPERATIONS
50 ADL Enviro 400 Scania double-deckers
30 ADL MMC E400 Scania double-deckers
57 ADL MMC E400 double-deckers
10 Wrightbus Eclipse Volvo single-deckers
28 ADL Enviro 300 Scania single-deckers
89 ADL Enviro 300 single-deckers
33 ADL MMC E200 11.9metre midibuses
27 ADL Enviro 200 midibuses
23 ADL MMC E200 10.8metre midibuses
42 Optare Solo minibuses
23 Optare Solo Slimline minibuses
12 Volvo Plaxton Elite 12.5metre coaches
44 Volvo Plaxton Ellite i 15metre coaches (8 left-hand-drive)

So presumably most of the 42 Optare Solo minibuses are destined for Carlisle.

Of the 41 x E200 in Carlisle, a number are not route branded and thus do regularly venture out of Carlisle as far as Cockermouth (route 600), Silloth (400), Annan/Dumfries (79/179), Windermere/Kendal (508) or very occasionally Hexham/Newcastle (685)

 

[ALX400]

26 Optare Solo's are destined for Carlisle.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm guessing the new vehicles for M&SL will include the batch of deckers for Chorley for the 125. Still can't see the route going Gold, to many misfits along certain parts of the route to warrant such high value seating.

You're in for a shock come October then[/QUOTE]



It'll be a nice interesting summer of Fleet Movements for everyone to see.

 

[madannie77]

I would be interested to know why you consider it "to be the most stupid idea.."

And where you are a regular bus user?

I have re read the original News and Star article which states:

"Stagecoach is preparing to replace its new bus fleet in Carlisle with midibuses.

It says the smaller vehicles, which can seat up to 37 passengers..."

The above quote is as stated in the News and Star - it is not a direct verbal quote from a Stagecoach person as verbal quotes do appear elsewhere in the article - so interesting as to the exact source of the text. The It says refers to Stagecoach.

Note that ...can seat up to 37... . The article does not explicitly state that the replacement Solos will seat 37. So the seating capacity is perhaps open to speculation - maybe some will or maybe they all wont as suggested by mbonwick.

I live near Carlisle and for the most time E200s on city services are not usually 100% full and do not normally carry standing passengers - but then I may be viewing them at quieter times. Any buses used on the city services have an easy time compared to elsewhere - no stop/start like London, limited congestion, no challenging hills, there are a few inclines or slopes but these are no problem even for a full bus.

The article also quotes a Stagecoach person "They are smaller, lighter and more fuel efficient, and environmentally friendly and are a more appropriate size for operating in the Carlisle urban area."

So if the E200s are not full and Stagecoach wish to maintain existing frequencies, looks like Solos are a cheaper option.

Cheaper is probably the key factor. If the Solo is so much more suited than the E200 why were 41 E200s bought to replace the Darts last year?

If the forthcoming Solos are like 47921 then I can also add more claustrophobic, noisier and unpopular to those attributes. I can confidently state that 47921 is the nastiest bus I have ever been a passenger on. When it was working the same duty on the 76 day after day I deliberately timed my journeys to and from work in order to avoid it. A truly horrible bus in my opinion, and I know I am not alone in that view. Wholesale introduction of Solos as bad as 47921 on my local route will undoubtedly lead to me using my car to get to and from work in future.

Observation from the window of the shop where I work in Carlisle would suggest that whilst the E200s might not be full all day, there are good loads for much of the time and I often see standing loads at the busiest times.

 

[ste898]

I would be interested to know why you consider it "to be the most stupid idea.."

And where you are a regular bus user?

I have re read the original News and Star article which states:

"Stagecoach is preparing to replace its new bus fleet in Carlisle with midibuses.

It says the smaller vehicles, which can seat up to 37 passengers..."

The above quote is as stated in the News and Star - it is not a direct verbal quote from a Stagecoach person as verbal quotes do appear elsewhere in the article - so interesting as to the exact source of the text. The It says refers to Stagecoach.

Note that ...can seat up to 37... . The article does not explicitly state that the replacement Solos will seat 37. So the seating capacity is perhaps open to speculation - maybe some will or maybe they all wont as suggested by mbonwick.

I live near Carlisle and for the most time E200s on city services are not usually 100% full and do not normally carry standing passengers - but then I may be viewing them at quieter times. Any buses used on the city services have an easy time compared to elsewhere - no stop/start like London, limited congestion, no challenging hills, there are a few inclines or slopes but these are no problem even for a full bus.

The article also quotes a Stagecoach person "They are smaller, lighter and more fuel efficient, and environmentally friendly and are a more appropriate size for operating in the Carlisle urban area."

So if the E200s are not full and Stagecoach wish to maintain existing frequencies, looks like Solos are a cheaper option.


Also from the Stagecoach website http://www.stagecoach.com/media/news-releases/2015/2015-03-10.aspx lists:

Details of the new orders are as follows:
UK REGIONAL OPERATIONS
50 ADL Enviro 400 Scania double-deckers
30 ADL MMC E400 Scania double-deckers
57 ADL MMC E400 double-deckers
10 Wrightbus Eclipse Volvo single-deckers
28 ADL Enviro 300 Scania single-deckers
89 ADL Enviro 300 single-deckers
33 ADL MMC E200 11.9metre midibuses
27 ADL Enviro 200 midibuses
23 ADL MMC E200 10.8metre midibuses
42 Optare Solo minibuses
23 Optare Solo Slimline minibuses
12 Volvo Plaxton Elite 12.5metre coaches
44 Volvo Plaxton Ellite i 15metre coaches (8 left-hand-drive)

So presumably most of the 42 Optare Solo minibuses are destined for Carlisle.

Of the 41 x E200 in Carlisle, a number are not route branded and thus do regularly venture out of Carlisle as far as Cockermouth (route 600), Silloth (400), Annan/Dumfries (79/179), Windermere/Kendal (508) or very occasionally Hexham/Newcastle (685)[/Qtimes

Good post above madannie

I too have experienced the dreaded solo but as I said above stagecoach only think of greed and profit not passengers so it looks like a lot more crushing and standing

Can anyone remember when Carlisle had the Mercedes mini buses I think they were before stagecoach days

Will be like going back in time

Hopefully they will keep some of the the bigger buses though for peak times

They will be kept busy at Carlisle depot taking all the nice branding off

 

[darrenw29]

Any ideas where the 26 E200s will end up?

 

[KendalKing]

If the Solo is so much more suited than the E200

As a former bus driver, who have driven both Solo's and E200's, I can say that the E200's are much better bus to drive, and have better steering then Solo's. If Stagecoach goes ahead with its plans to replace the E200's with Solo's on Carlisle City services, then I can see another company, such as Reays moving into Carlisle big time.

 

[ste898]

As a former bus driver, who have driven both Solo's and E200's, I can say that the E200's are much better bus to drive, and have better steering then Solo's. If Stagecoach goes ahead with its plans to replace the E200's with Solo's on Carlisle City services, then I can see another company, such as Reays moving into Carlisle big time.

I would definitely give Reays my custom...a local family firm that would put customers first

 

[robertclark125]

The other thing that comes out of this is, if the Solo is the cheaper option, and we have a few Solo SR's in Fife, then it would mean Stagecoach not having to increase fares, or increase by a smaller amount. If it then encourages more people to go onto the buses, then Stagecoach may consider replacing the vehicles with larger vehicles. It's all to do with demand.

A reduction in seat and size can also mean a reduction in costs, which can then be passed onto the customer, encouraging them to use the product more. More custom will require more capacity, and thus there will be bigger buses to satisfy the greater custom, and/or increase in frequency.

Dublin Bus tried this in 1993 with the City Swift concept, where a slightly underperforming route, the 39 to Blanchardstown, had its allocation of double deckers, about 12 vehicles, replaced with 20 single deckers covering 17 diagrams. The frequency was increased, and the smaller vehicles and lower costs generated increased custom, and the single deckers were replaced in 1995 with Double Deckers.

An even more direct example from Dublin concerns the 123 Marino - Drimnagh, the old 24. It ran on a 12 minute frequency, and had its single deckers replaced with minibuses, on the same frequency. Sure enough, in 1995, just a year after conversion to minibus, larger minibuses had to be bought, then in 2000 Volvo B6LEs took over the service.

What I'm saying is, for some it may seem a strange step, replacing larger vehicles with smaller vehicles on the same frequency. But, if those smaller vehicles prevent a rise in costs, and the savings are passed onto the customer, then potential new custom will be encouraged, and this may lead to larger vehicles returning.

 

[KendalKing]

A reduction in seat and size can also mean a reduction in costs, which can then be passed onto the customer, encouraging them to use the product more.

What I'm saying is, for some it may seem a strange step, replacing larger vehicles with smaller vehicles on the same frequency. But, if those smaller vehicles prevent a rise in costs, and the savings are passed onto the customer, then potential new custom will be encouraged, and this may lead to larger vehicles returning.

Don't make me laugh.

I have worked in the Bus Industry for 23-years, in my experience a reduction in the number of seats available, actually dis-encourage people from using the buses....

 

[enrag2000]

What I'm saying is, for some it may seem a strange step, replacing larger vehicles with smaller vehicles on the same frequency. But, if those smaller vehicles prevent a rise in costs, and the savings are passed onto the customer, then potential new custom will be encouraged, and this may lead to larger vehicles returning.

That is obviously not going to happen:

"From Monday 20th April, fares across Cumbria and North Lancashire will change.

We appreciate that fare changes will not be popular at this time. We need to make changes to reflect rising staff costs." SCNL website.

 

[TheHovisKid]

Don't make me laugh.

I have worked in the Bus Industry for 23-years, in my experience a reduction in the number of seats available, actually dis-encourage people from using the buses....

Out of interest, where did you work on full-sized stage services and was it recent? The impression I've had from your posts on here is that you've mostly been on solo-sized work schlepping around Kendal or the edges of Lancaster?

 

[ste898]

That is obviously not going to happen:

"From Monday 20th April, fares across Cumbria and North Lancashire will change.

We appreciate that fare changes will not be popular at this time. We need to make changes to reflect rising staff costs." SCNL website.

Rising staff costs

Greed ridden stagecoach are making drivers in Carlisle sign new contracts for less pay when they change to smaller solos....disgraceful company

 

[mbonwick]

Greed ridden stagecoach are making drivers in Carlisle sign new contracts for less pay when they change to smaller solos....disgraceful company

Which simply brings them into line with most other depots/regions that have sizeable allocations of minibuses...nothing sinister there.

Lillyhall depot has been the exact same with a mini rota for years now.

 

[KendalKing]

Out of interest, where did you work on full-sized stage services and was it recent? The impression I've had from your posts on here is that you've mostly been on solo-sized work schlepping around Kendal or the edges of Lancaster?

A part from finding your comments highly insulting!

Where I work or have worked, is none of your business!

Just for the record, I studied Transport Management at Blackpool & Fylde College at Bispham in the late 80's.

From Monday 20th April, fares across Cumbria and North Lancashire will change.

Greed ridden stagecoach are making drivers in Carlisle sign new contracts for less pay when they change to smaller solos....disgraceful company

Unfortunately, its not just Stagecoach, but other companies as well, which why there are so many drivers leaving the industry.

 

[Robertj21a]

Rising staff costs

Greed ridden stagecoach are making drivers in Carlisle sign new contracts for less pay when they change to smaller solos....disgraceful company

Probably good business practice actually. Nobody is making drivers do anything, they always have an alternative. It's a harsh world at times and I sympathise with anyone faced with such a dilemma but a financially healthy employer is also paramount.

 

[Ernie]

The other thing that comes out of this is, if the Solo is the cheaper option, and we have a few Solo SR's in Fife, then it would mean Stagecoach not having to increase fares, or increase by a smaller amount. If it then encourages more people to go onto the buses, then Stagecoach may consider replacing the vehicles with larger vehicles. It's all to do with demand.

A reduction in seat and size can also mean a reduction in costs, which can then be passed onto the customer, encouraging them to use the product more. More custom will require more capacity, and thus there will be bigger buses to satisfy the greater custom, and/or increase in frequency.

Dublin Bus tried this in 1993 with the City Swift concept, where a slightly underperforming route, the 39 to Blanchardstown, had its allocation of double deckers, about 12 vehicles, replaced with 20 single deckers covering 17 diagrams. The frequency was increased, and the smaller vehicles and lower costs generated increased custom, and the single deckers were replaced in 1995 with Double Deckers.

An even more direct example from Dublin concerns the 123 Marino - Drimnagh, the old 24. It ran on a 12 minute frequency, and had its single deckers replaced with minibuses, on the same frequency. Sure enough, in 1995, just a year after conversion to minibus, larger minibuses had to be bought, then in 2000 Volvo B6LEs took over the service.

What I'm saying is, for some it may seem a strange step, replacing larger vehicles with smaller vehicles on the same frequency. But, if those smaller vehicles prevent a rise in costs, and the savings are passed onto the customer, then potential new custom will be encouraged, and this may lead to larger vehicles returning.

Hi
Nice thought that by using Solos Stagecoach might not increase fares because of lower costs. However this goes out of the window when in the carlisle evening news this week it announced Stagecoach fare increases.
Regards
Ernie

 

[ste898]

Probably good business practice actually. Nobody is making drivers do anything, they always have an alternative. It's a harsh world at times and I sympathise with anyone faced with such a dilemma but a financially healthy employer is also paramount.

Unbelievable....

People like you are typical of people today

Workers get treated like **** by who they work for they give **** back

'They have an alternative' and that would be no job oh yes very practical

 

[mbonwick]

Seriously?

Being in a job but paid slightly less is worse than not having a job because your employer has gone bust? OK then...

(Not that there is even the remotest hint that Stagecoach are in any difficulties)

 

[ste898]

Seriously?

Being in a job but paid slightly less is worse than not having a job because your employer has gone bust? OK then...

(Not that there is even the remotest hint that Stagecoach are in any difficulties)

Erm NO come on waken up

its called employers doing what they want to their workers while the bosses continue to line their pockets with pay rises and bonuses or is stagecoach different err NO

 

[mbonwick]

No, it's called harmonising terms & conditions.

Why should Carlisle drivers be treated any differently to those at any other depot doing the same type of work? They're in line with other depots now with the E200s and with these changes will continue to be with Solos.

 

[robertclark125]

Going back a fair few years now, but once upon a time, Cumberland had two tri axle Leyland Olympians. Where are they nowadays?

Also on the topic of vehicles and possible cascades, in late summer, Fife is due 19 new single deckers for route 19, and I have been told on twitter the existing MAN 18.240s will be cascaded outwith East Scotland. So, look out in case some are heading your way!

 

[KendalKing]

Going back a fair few years now, but once upon a time, Cumberland had two tri axle Leyland Olympians. Where are they nowadays?

F201 FHH, was still in service with McNairn, Coatbridge as recently as December 2014.

F202 FHH, was last reported in service with McNairn, Coatbridge in June 2014.

 

[Robertj21a]

Unbelievable....

People like you are typical of people today

Workers get treated like **** by who they work for they give **** back

'They have an alternative' and that would be no job oh yes very practical

Not at all, everyone is entitled to choose who they work for. There are other jobs out there for those who don't get on with a current employer, or who simply want to progress their employment in a different area.

 

[KendalKing]

Are Stagecoach (Morecambe depot) on strike today ?

 

[darrenw29]

Anyone know what's wrong with the dennis dart forum??

 

[TheHovisKid]

Out of interest, where did you work on full-sized stage services and was it recent? The impression I've had from your posts on here is that you've mostly been on solo-sized work schlepping around Kendal or the edges of Lancaster?

A part from finding your comments highly insulting!
Where I work or have worked, is none of your business!
Just for the record, I studied Transport Management at Blackpool & Fylde College at Bispham in the late 80's.

Yes, my point being that in the late 1980's things in general were quite different from how they are now, not least of which is that I was in primary school.
From your (public) forum posts, the impression gained is that you've most recently worked on minibus-sized work in Kendal and Lancaster for smaller firms and my question was intended to acertain how recent/relevant your experience of stage carriage work on full-sized buses/for large companies was both in general and in respect of the statement that

a reduction in the number of seats available, actually dis-encourage people from using the buses

against the opposite hypothesis, that retrenching to a more economical vehicle until operational demands require something more, and to which you objected in the rather un-empirical way of:

As far as the other trend of how matters at Carlisle may go, I think it's important to remember that when that nice Mr Cameron said "We're all in this together" he meant a one-way trip to Crapville for everyone. While the changes to T&C for drivers there isn't nice, many other users of this forum may well have suffered changes of a similar nature in their own lives.
Several of my colleagues have taken the money and run this year. I could have done so, but chose to stay.
So, we have a choice. Choose to stick with worse T&Cs and pay the mortgage, or choose to bin that off and end up with who-knows-what-or-nothing.
Unfortunately, staying put is sometimes the more secure option but that doesn't make it any more palatable, but nobody is attacking the Carlisle drivers and saying they're worthless, but you can see why the current situation makes it much easier to justify that sort of thing.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Are Stagecoach (Morecambe depot) on strike today ?

I saw a few things out and about- E400 on the 2X, a Dart somewhere, , a X-Reg MAN on the Westgates, and a few Solos, 22595 on an Ingleton and 17020 on a 2 several times- been a while since i've seen an S-reg trident on there all day.

That said, things seemed a little more sparse than normal. But there was mega-traffic at lunch time (Was the M6 shut?) so things may have been trapped in that?

 

[Y961 XBU]

Anyone know what's wrong with the dennis dart forum??

Dont want to take this to of topic but the Owner of the Site is a mate of mine and is aware of the Fault and hopes to fix it Tomorrow

 

[robertclark125]

The new timetables are online for the altered routes in Preston now. Notably, the 9 to Moor Nook, is shown as during the day "at least every 10 minutes". I thought there were new regulations that meant operators couldn't do that, but perhaps I am wrong.

 

[CAF397]

26 Optare Solo's are destined for Carlisle.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


You're in for a shock come October then

It'll be a nice interesting summer of Fleet Movements for everyone to see.[/QUOTE]

Off Wikipedia (not the greatest of sources, admittedly)

"
The current known allocations of the new Stagecoach Gold vehicles are:

5 ADL Enviro 400 Scania's for Stagecoach Cumbria & North Lancashire (Lillyhall Depot)
24 ADL Enviro 400 Scania's for Stagecoach Merseyside & South Lancashire (Chorley Depot)"

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stagecoach_Gold