Summons for failing to submit a rail ticket??

[Greenback]

But it's also valid on buses (some of which are outside London, but not all buses within London), and on the DLR, and London Overground, and some, but not all National Rail services within London. If they find it works on NR to (say) Wimbledon, what's to stop them assuming it would work to Gatwick?

Either way this is getting further away from OP's problem, which is that contactless payment wasn't accepted at Gatwick.

We all know what the old saying is about assuming things. If someone just makes an assumption and fails to check, there will be consequences most of the time.

 

[Llanigraham]

Brilliant mate.

These penalties just contribute to the rip-off Britain tag. We are used to it I guess and mostly because people (arguing for GTR) in this case have accepted it.

Sorry all (for those arguing for GTR), as much as I appreciate most of your time to post comments, the fact remains that travelling to 'London' Gatwick (it is in London according to the airport authorities http://www.gatwickairport.com/) just isn't clear enough.
As an Englishman and a Londoner, I don't understand this still. Travelling in London is a doddle but the use of the Oyster card/ Contactless is still a grey area at his point in time.

It then becomes the responsibility of the GTR to be absolutely clear about this because people use their service. But as I said earlier, they aren't going to be because of this £300/hour cash-cow. Certainly helps pay a fair few wages.

I am an infrequent user of transport in London, although I do have an Oyster Card, but I can manage to understand where and on what it can be used, simply because I take a responsibility to check. It isn't difficult and if you can read a poster on a station then you should also be able to do so. However it appears that you want to be spoon-fed!
Your earlier comment about Courts starting at 0930 being too early also does you no favours. Some of us have been at work for 4 hours by then!

 

[island]

On first glance, by an uninformed traveller, that ticket would only be valid for a day's travel on London Underground, possibly within 6 zones (or possibly only 6 times in the day!)

So they might buy a ticket that they didn't need for bus, tram, DLR or NR services within those zones. Again, not enough information. However, it would be fair to assume that someone buying one would have informd themselves as to what it was.

I got caught out in Paris last week. I used to live in the leafy-green suburbs to the north and speak the language fluently. Wanted a "Zones 1-2 Travelcard" for myself, the wife, and the boy. Child rate Mobilis Cards don't exist. But there was a ticket advertised on the TVM as "Ticket Jeunes" offering unlimited journeys for a day in Zones 1-3. So I bought it. Wasn't until I got to the barrier and it was rejected that I realised it was for a weekend only (and this was sold from a TVM on a Wednesday). Couldn't find ANY child fares on a TVM so had to buy an adult Mobilis for him. Still can't work out how much too much I ended up paying. Thankfully I sent him first into the barrier - I have no idea what would have happened if we'd both been through before him.

For the record your child if under 11 would have needed a Carte Paris Visite (which TVMs may or may not sell). Over 11 it would be a Mobilis. Ticket Jeunes is not for children but for adults under 25, and, as you've discovered, is only usable on weekends.

 

[bravot]

I've just had an amble around the TfL website. I want to know under what circumstances I need to get an Oyster card for my 5 year old son.

Googled "Child Oyster Card", which took me to a TfL Visitor Shop site called "Travelling with Children". This did not contain the info I needed but did contain a link "Find out more about 5-10 Oyster Photocards". If you follow that, there's a "Page not found" error.

So I used the menu system to find another section on "Travelling with Children" which implied that I don't need an Oyster Card for my son except on a certain number of local train services. It describes these train services as "Red" and "Green" and says I need an Oyster Card to travel on "Green" routes. There's a link for a map of Red and Green Routes, but this link goes to "Page not found".

So, logically, I go to maps, find a map called London's Rail and Tube services.

There's a green-coloured line on that map, which goes to Gatwick Airport!

Now, I know that that's wrong, but it isn't beyond the realms of impossibility that even an intelligent person, confronted with that information, might believe that a Child-Rate Oyster card allows a child to travel free on the Southern Trains service to Gatwick.

So, the information that is provided for visitors to London, or people that do not use the system, is not clear. It really needs looking at.

Although I have just found out that there is a Child Rate National Rail Photocard that I need to get for the boy now...

Took me three clicks to find http://www.tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/travel-for-under-18s/travelling-with-children?intcmp=25255 with a map link that works fine.

 

[DeeGee]

For the record your child if under 11 would have needed a Carte Paris Visite (which TVMs may or may not sell). Over 11 it would be a Mobilis. Ticket Jeunes is not for children but for adults under 25, and, as you've discovered, is only usable on weekends.

Not the TVMs at Gare du Nord, unfortunately. Looooong queues for the "guichet" too. Doesn't matter. I've wasted a couple of quid. No biggy!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Took me three clicks to find http://www.tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/travel-for-under-18s/travelling-with-children?intcmp=25255 with a map link that works fine.

Doesn't change the fact that my route, which would be equally likely for someone who finding out about ticketing in London to follow, came out with misleading info.

Most people Google for the info they require. If the landing page from Google leads to the wrong info, then that's poor form, especially if it is an actual official site.

That's why so many people end up paying loads of money to renew an EHIC card. They Google it. Website developers need to be conscious of this.

 

[bravot]

Doesn't change the fact that my route, which would be equally likely for someone who finding out about ticketing in London to follow, came out with misleading info.

Most people Google for the info they require. If the landing page from Google leads to the wrong info, then that's poor form, especially if it is an actual official site.

That's why so many people end up paying loads of money to renew an EHIC card. They Google it. Website developers need to be conscious of this.

Bit of a moot point as TfL don't have any say over where they are ranked on Google nor it's content in general.

I appreciate that the there is a duff link on the visitor shop site but it's probably likely that no one's told them...

 

[krus_aragon]

We all know what the old saying is about assuming things.

At least, you assume we do... :P

 

[archwaykid]

This is the way we who take responsibilty for our lives take advantage of those who still need their mother to remind them when to breathe.

Oh my mother passed a few years ago. Perhaps I should ask yours!

 

[DaleCooper]

Oh my mother passed a few years ago. Perhaps I should ask yours!

I'm an orphan so you'll need a Ouija board, just make sure you read the T&Cs before using it.

 

[Clip]

I give up sometimes with posts on this forum. If its really that much of a struggle to understand that you should check where your ticket is valid to then travelling by public transport is not for you.

Gatwick Airport is not in London. If thats too hard to understand then please dont get the plane either.

And as for the ticket shown previously - that's from 2008 and Im pretty sure that since then the tickets have had a revamp however I cant confirm as Ive not seen one in years.

 

[archwaykid]

Bit of a moot point as TfL don't have any say over where they are ranked on Google nor it's content in general.

I appreciate that the there is a duff link on the visitor shop site but it's probably likely that no one's told them...

Agreed on the first point regarding rankage.

But here is the link from Regents Park to Gatwick. http://goo.gl/NjjyS0

Considering Gatwick airport (as an authority in itself) touts itself as a London Airport - A little disclaimer (at point of search) by the TFL and also any Rail website would be appreciated.
'Please note that an Oyster/ Contactless is not valid to travel to your destination'. Simple. That's all I (and people arguing for my original request) am/ are asking.

I don't use the Rail. Seldom use the Tube. So when I search on the TFL website, one would expect it. And similarly on the Rail websites. But they don't. And they are wrong for it.

Also, why is it that I don't need to do 'research' when I go to Heathrow for example? Because you automatically assume the being a London airport, you can use your contactless/oyster.

If you can't use an Contactless/ Oyster on the rail, then it shouldn't be allowed to use on the Rail full-stop. But no, let's make it confusing for people!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm an orphan so you'll need a Ouija board, just make sure you read the T&Cs before using it.

Oh no, I'm so sorry. Apologies mate, I didn't mean to.

My comment was in jest.

 

[DaleCooper]

Oh no, I'm so sorry. Apologies mate, I didn't mean to.

My comment was in jest.

No apology necessary (well not for that anyway), you need to try harder if you want to hurt my feelings, and anyway most of my comments are also in jest, did you really think my dead mum could be contacted by Ouija board?

By the way looking at that link you provided I would have assumed that as two different forms of transport were listed it would require separate tickets and my dead dad says the same.

 

[EM2]

Agreed on the first point regarding rankage.

But here is the link from Regents Park to Gatwick. http://goo.gl/NjjyS0

Considering Gatwick airport (as an authority in itself) touts itself as a London Airport - A little disclaimer (at point of search) by the TFL and also any Rail website would be appreciated.
'Please note that an Oyster/ Contactless is not valid to travel to your destination'. Simple. That's all I (and people arguing for my original request) am/ are asking.

But I can modify that search and ask for a journey to Norwich. Should there be a disclaimer for that too? Just because Gatwick Airport calls itself a London airport doesn't mean it is in London.
No-one I know, those that are Londoners as well as those that aren't, would think that Gatwick Airport is in London.

 

[bb21]

The link you provided gave no information on fare, and it all comes back to the point about not assuming things.

You cannot use Oyster or Contactless on Heathrow Express, the nearest comparable example to National Rail services to Gatwick.

The naming issue for the airport is something you will need to take up with the airport owners.

To be honest I have some sympathy for you, but your constant whining is tiring. At the end of the day you should accept a large chunk of responsibility for what went wrong on that day, for the reasons Greenback and I, and several others, gave earlier. There are probably things TfL could improve on, but to pin the blame firmly on them is quite unfair.

 

[DaleCooper]

But I can modify that search and ask for a journey to Norwich. Should there be a disclaimer for that too? Just because Gatwick Airport calls itself a London airport doesn't mean it is in London.
No-one I know, those that are Londoners as well as those that aren't, would think that Gatwick Airport is in London.

Surely that must be the fatal blow to archwaykid's argument but I don't suppose he'll accept it.

 

[Greenback]

At least, you assume we do... :P

Nice one!

I give up sometimes with posts on this forum. If its really that much of a struggle to understand that you should check where your ticket is valid to then travelling by public transport is not for you.

I agree. I don't think that the fact that Gatwick chooses to brand itself as a London airport is a strong argument for other organisations having to tell people that it's actually quite a way outside the capital.

The link you provided gave no information on fare, and it all comes back to the point about not assuming things.

Indeed, and despite all the side discussions, that's the central issue.

You cannot use Oyster or Contactless on Heathrow Express, the nearest comparable example to National Rail services to Gatwick.

That's a good point.

The naming issue for the airport is something you will need to take up with the airport owners.

Spot on. It's not an issue that a TOC or TfL has any responsibility or influence over.

To be honest I have some sympathy for you, but your constant whining is tiring. At the end of the day you should accept a large chunk of responsibility for what went wrong on that day, for the reasons Greenback and I, and several others, gave earlier. There are probably things TfL could improve on, but to pin the blame firmly on them is quite unfair.

Agreed. There are flaws with the system, but my sympathy more or less evaporates when someone merely makes an assumption that because they've used one method of payment for a journey, they can do the same for all journeys. Any sympathy I had originally has disappeared now as the OP hasn't accepted any responsibility and continues to try and blame anyone they can.

Surely that must be the fatal blow to archwaykid's argument but I don't suppose he'll accept it.

I think you're right.

 

[Via Bank]

I give up sometimes with posts on this forum. If its really that much of a struggle to understand that you should check where your ticket is valid to then travelling by public transport is not for you.

Gatwick Airport is not in London. If thats too hard to understand then please dont get the plane either.

Fine. BUT, if people keep getting caught out, then it suggests very strongly that this restriction is not being advertised clearly enough!

Let's have an analogy: say you have a step which a significant number of people keep tripping up on, and falling over. That indicates a usability defect in the design of the building, because the step is not obviously visible. The correct thing to do is to put a sign up saying "mind the step," or perhaps to put a yellow border or lighting on the step to make it more obvious, or to eliminate the step entirely. It is not appropriate, or fair, to sigh deeply and say 'well, it's your fault you weren't looking where you were going" (and, in the case of the railways, also charge someone a hefty penalty for having been caught out.)

I reiterate my point that Gatwick being outside London is immaterial. It's about the same distance (30 miles) from Charing Cross as Amersham (27 miles), which is also outside London.

Yes, OP is responsible for checking, but surely the railways must bear some responsibility for building up OP's expectations without clearly advertising the caveats. TfL in particular have an ad that says Go Contactless, Go Anywhere. It has no mention whatsoever that contactless payments are not valid beyond the Oyster zones!

Frankly, I cannot believe that no-one realises this is a problem. Honest customers are being penalised because they were conditioned to think their chosen payment method was valid. This is a problem. It needs to be fixed, preferably by explicitly stating the limits of the Oyster and Contactless systems at a point where the customer can still fix it by purchasing a valid paper ticket.

So, if OP is still listening, I would advise this: pay up, and then make a complaint in the strongest possible terms to the train operator that these restrictions must be clearly advertised on the station information screens, and on the screens and signs on the train.

 

[EM2]

TfL in particular have an ad that says Go Contactless, Go Anywhere. It has no mention whatsoever that contactless payments are not valid beyond the Oyster zones!

Yet they have a link for more information. Which suggests that might be something worth doing.

 

[DaleCooper]

Fine. BUT, if people keep getting caught out, then it suggests very strongly that this restriction is not being advertised clearly enough!

What proportion of people using these services are getting caught out? Unless we know that we can't know if it's a significant problem, all we have at the moment is hearsay and anecdote.

As for the "Go Anywhere" bit, if anyone takes that literally then they need help.

 

[najaB]

TfL in particular have an ad that says Go Contactless, Go Anywhere. It has no mention whatsoever that contactless payments are not valid beyond the Oyster zones!

The web address linked on the advert does, however, state in a box at the top, and again further down:

You can use your contactless payment card to travel on Tube, tram, DLR, London Overground and most National Rail services in London, as well as on buses.

The fact that it says most National Rail services would be my clue that I need to check if the journey I intended to take was valid or not. A couple of minutes pause to ask a question would have avoided the whole mess.

I'm not saying that the current advertising / signage is perfect or can't be improved but at the end of the day there's no way around the fact that the onus is on the passenger to be sure that they have a valid ticket.

 

[Via Bank]

The web address linked on the advert does, however, state in a box at the top, and again further down:The fact that it says most National Rail services would be my clue that I need to check if the journey I intended to take was valid or not. A couple of minutes pause to ask a question would have avoided the whole mess.

Fine. But it should say, on the advert, "Go contactless, go anywhere in London", or have in the small print that it is only valid within the Oyster zones. Otherwise it is misleading. It's like an advert that says, "£1 pizza at $SUPERMARKET!" only for you to discover, on visiting the supermarket, that you only get your £1 pizza with a qualifying purchase.

I'm not saying that the current advertising / signage is perfect or can't be improved but at the end of the day there's no way around the fact that the onus is on the passenger to be sure that they have a valid ticket.

True, but this does not change the fact it is an extremely poor customer experience if the customer falls through the cracks. Everyone says "never make assumptions," but nobody thinks to ask how people come to make those assumptions: if they're being fed only half the truth through adverts such as this, it is no wonder that people are getting caught out!

 

[bb21]

Fine. BUT, if people keep getting caught out, then it suggests very strongly that this restriction is not being advertised clearly enough!

Let's have an analogy: say you have a step which a significant number of people keep tripping up on, and falling over. That indicates a usability defect in the design of the building, because the step is not obviously visible. The correct thing to do is to put a sign up saying "mind the step," or perhaps to put a yellow border or lighting on the step to make it more obvious, or to eliminate the step entirely. It is not appropriate, or fair, to sigh deeply and say 'well, it's your fault you weren't looking where you were going" (and, in the case of the railways, also charge someone a hefty penalty for having been caught out.)

I reiterate my point that Gatwick being outside London is immaterial. It's about the same distance (30 miles) from Charing Cross as Amersham (27 miles), which is also outside London.

Yes, OP is responsible for checking, but surely the railways must bear some responsibility for building up OP's expectations without clearly advertising the caveats. TfL in particular have an ad that says Go Contactless, Go Anywhere. It has no mention whatsoever that contactless payments are not valid beyond the Oyster zones!

Frankly, I cannot believe that no-one realises this is a problem. Honest customers are being penalised because they were conditioned to think their chosen payment method was valid. This is a problem. It needs to be fixed, preferably by explicitly stating the limits of the Oyster and Contactless systems at a point where the customer can still fix it by purchasing a valid paper ticket.

So, if OP is still listening, I would advise this: pay up, and then make a complaint in the strongest possible terms to the train operator that these restrictions must be clearly advertised on the station information screens, and on the screens and signs on the train.

There is a very big difference. The few people in your steps example is likely to constitute a good proportion of all users. The number of people who cannot understand that Gatwick Airport is not in London, I am willing to bet, is tiny as a proportion of all passengers who use the network.

Your particular gripe seems to be with the government, who made the transport industry the way it is these days, with no absolute consistency across board, each wanting to do their own thing.

 

[bb21]

Fine. But it should say, on the advert, "Go contactless, go anywhere in London", or have in the small print that it is only valid within the Oyster zones. Otherwise it is misleading. It's like an advert that says, "£1 pizza at $SUPERMARKET!" only for you to discover, on visiting the supermarket, that you only get your £1 pizza with a qualifying purchase.

Given that it is a TfL advert, it is not beyond the wits of any average individual that this applies to London area only. So we are back to the definition of "London" and the fact that the owners of Gatwick branded the airport with something that is misleading.

I suggest that you take the matter up with them.

 

[fowler9]

I think part of the problem is that people all over the South East will claim to live in London even though where they live is no where near. People from outside the area will assume it is true and all kinds of mad places are London.

 

[34D]

I think part of the problem is that people all over the South East will claim to live in London even though where they live is no where near. People from outside the area will assume it is true and all kinds of mad places are London.

This. I know people from Welwyn, Southend, Reigate and Windsor who's 'high level' answer to "where are you from" is London.

This is the case, I would suggest, with big cities the world over.

Surely there are three alternative solutions to this problem (and I for one agree it is a problem):

-passengers to do proper resesrch

-airports in southend, Luton, gatwick and west London to drop the 'london' designation.

-TOC's to acknowledge the issue, acknowledge their moral responsibility to make travel simpler, and allow oyster to Heathrow rail, gatwick, luton and southend. They could even be put in their own special zone (all of them) such that the cost of going there by oyster is higher than a national rail paper period return.

 

[EM2]

This. I know people from Welwyn, Southend, Reigate and Windsor who's 'high level' answer to "where are you from" is London.

Where you live is not necessarily where you're from. I used to live in rural Ireland, but I'm from London.

Surely there are three alternative solutions to this problem (and I for one agree it is a problem):

-passengers to do proper resesrch

-airports in southend, Luton, gatwick and west London to drop the 'london' designation.

-TOC's to acknowledge the issue, acknowledge their moral responsibility to make travel simpler, and allow oyster to Heathrow rail, gatwick, luton and southend. They could even be put in their own special zone (all of them) such that the cost of going there by oyster is higher than a national rail paper period return.

Oyster is not a TOC product. Therefore, they have no 'moral responsibility' to accept it at all, let alone to anywhere in an area where the organisation that does provide it doesn't serve.

 

[bb21]

I actually thought that there were some good suggestions in the thread, such as putting up a reminder about Oyster/Contactless not being valid when a journey to/from a location outside the zones is enquired. What I do not agree with is somehow it is all TfL's fault if this is not done. TfL probably have one of the most comprehensive provision of travel information in the world and whatever such an authority do, they can never cater for absolutely everyone's unique needs. At the end of the day, TfL don't even have anything to do with the Penalty Fare in the first place.

I don't see what complaining to TfL will achieve in this place. Why not try a different tactic? Perhaps suggest these things to them rather than complain about the lack of these things. It will probably be better received and more effective.

 

[fowler9]

Where you live is not necessarily where you're from. I used to live in rural Ireland, but I'm from London.


Oyster is not a TOC product. Therefore, they have no 'moral responsibility' to accept it at all, let alone to anywhere in an area where the organisation that does provide it doesn't serve.

I think saying where you live is not where you are from muddies the issue slightly. Loads of people from no were near London, or rather living no where near London, will tell people they live in London. A Spanish girl I am friends with told us all she was moving to London, she was moving to Frimley. She was convinced she was moving to the bustling metropolis and got a surprise. I completely understand why people do it but still it gives people a distorted view of what London is.

 

[Via Bank]

I actually thought that there were some good suggestions in the thread, such as putting up a reminder about Oyster/Contactless not being valid when a journey to/from a location outside the zones is enquired. What I do not agree with is somehow it is all TfL's fault if this is not done. TfL probably have one of the most comprehensive provision of travel information in the world and whatever such an authority do, they can never cater for absolutely everyone's unique needs. At the end of the day, TfL don't even have anything to do with the Penalty Fare in the first place.

I don't see what complaining to TfL will achieve in this place. Why not try a different tactic? Perhaps suggest these things to them rather than complain about the lack of these things. It will probably be better received and more effective.

Really, the "fault" lies in multiple places: TfL for misleading advertising that Contactless is valid "anywhere," the TOCs for failing to properly advertise where Oyster is and isn't accepted, the airports for advertising themselves as London even when they're not in a London borough, and—yes—the passenger for not doing research.

But there is an attitude in various sections of the railway, coming through in these posts, that it's "not their problem." Nonsense! All the parties involved could do more but choose not to. TfL could easily advertise more clearly that Contactless is only valid for journeys in the London zones. TOCs could reprogram the CIS to clearly advertise the boundaries. Airports could make transport information clearer.

But it is not, and people are getting caught out. Which is why it makes me so frustrated—because these fixes, to my mind, are relatively easy and low-risk!

 

[hassaanhc]

I was aware that the TfL journey planner will allow you to plan journeys that are outside London. So I decided to see how easy it is to find out the fares for such journeys.

The Tfl journey planner will allow you to plan a journey to Gatwick Airport, with seemingly no mention that it is outside London or which zone it is in.


Elsewhere on the website, under the "Visiting London" section, you will find this:

Gatwick is 30 miles (48km) to the south of central London.
Rail
Gatwick Express operates four trains per hour to and from London Victoria. Journey time 30 minutes. There is no service between 00:30 and 03:30 from London and between 01:35 and 04:35 from Gatwick. Other rail operators run services through the night.

Southern

Southern operates three trains per hour to and from London Victoria. Average journey time is 40 minutes. An hourly service operates through the night.

First Capital Connect

First Capital Connect (formerly Thameslink) operates up to four trains per hour to and from London Bridge, City Thameslink, Farringdon and St. Pancras International.

Coach
National Express

National Express operates a regular service, operating 24 hours a day, to and from Victoria Coach Station, via Streatham. Journey time 65-95 minutes.

Easybus

Easybus route EB4 operates a regular service to and from Earls Court/West Brompton. Journey time from 65 minutes.

Neither have anything about fares. When you go to the "Fares and Payments" section, and click on fares.


If you remember, it was National Rail to Gatwick Airport, so you go and click on "National Rail, to be presented with the following:

National Rail
You can travel on National Rail services in London using an Oyster or contactless payment card to pay as you go or you can add a Travelcard to your Oyster card. You can also buy paper tickets for single journeys or Day Travelcards.
The amount you pay depends on the route you use and how you pay on National Rail services.

Pay as you go is charged as follows:

National Rail fares for journeys wholly on National Rail services
Through fares for journeys which include both TfL and National Rail services
Tube, DLR and London Overground fares for journeys entirely on any of the following National Rail lines:
Chiltern Railways: Amersham to Marylebone, West Ruislip to Marylebone
First Capital Connect: Finsbury Park to King's Cross/Moorgate, West Hampstead to Moorgate/Elephant & Castle/London Bridge
Greater Anglia: Stratford to Liverpool Street, Tottenham Hale/Seven Sisters to Stratford, Walthamstow Central/Tottenham Hale/Seven Sisters to Liverpool Street
C2C: Grays to Fenchurch Street/Liverpool Street via Barking (but not at Forest Gate/Maryland)
Southern: Watford Junction to Clapham Junction, New Cross Gate to West Croydon/ Crystal Palace
London Midland: Watford Junction to Euston
First Great Western: West Drayton/Greenford to Paddington

You then go further down to select "Adult" to be presented with this:

Pay as you go and cash single fares

With an Oyster card you can use pay as you go and benefit from daily capping.

With a contactless payment card you can use pay as you go and benefit from daily and Monday to Sunday capping.

The amount you pay depends on the route you use. Here's how to work out your fare.

Look at the following map:

Pay as you go tariffs on National Rail map
PDF 64KB

If any of your journey is on a red route, check:

the National Rail only table for journeys just on National Rail services
the Through fares table for journeys including travel on Tube, DLR or London Overground) in the following document

Adult-rate National Rail fares
PDF 68KB

If you're only travelling on a green route check Tube, DLR and London Overground fares.

If you know your start and end stations and want to know the cost of a single journey, use our single fare finder.

You do not need an Oyster card to pay cash single fares. If you want to know the cash fare for a journey that is not listed or is outside Zone 6, please go to the National Rail website.

Given the mention of zones, it could occur to someone to check the maps given, or as you will more likely know what your nearest station is and obviously know where you are going, you'll use the single fare finder as mentioned. It is only after looking at the map that you will find that Gatwick Airport appears outside the zones, or after using the single fare finder you find it doesn't appear there, so you'll have to go to the National Rail website to find out.

It doesn't seem very quick to find, and seems to be laid out in a way that suggests someone will spend a lot of time planning . One would also think that someone making a special journey will think to check these things beforehand. There are phone numbers given, email links, as well as social media, not to mention going to a staffed station, so they've given opportunities to find out more information.


What I think also seems to annoy people here is the OP coming across as if they're new to London and not knowing a lot about the fares, while their username makes it seem like they've lived here a reasonable time to be aware of these things, and know to check beforehand.