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47790 can anyone help?

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SuffolkRaider

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Morning all With the end soon of the 47 hauled "short set" out east here Steve W thought it was a good idea to profile 47790 before she rides off into the sunset but found it a bit perplexing. he asks if you would have a read via the link and if anybody can fill in the gaps via the blog or me here he will be chuffed(and get some sleep) Thanks

http://busandtrain.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/the-many-numbers-and-history-of-47-790.html

If you are lucky enough to see the "short set" running between Norwich and Yarmouth/Lowestoft you may well see Northern Belle 47 790 at one end. Not for much longer mind you as the much anticipated 37's are taking over soon. I thought it would be good to delve into the history of this magnificent beast and see what I could come up with. The answer is more than I could ever fit into one post but I'll squeeze in as much as I can.
 
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Ash Bridge

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Morning all With the end soon of the 47 hauled "short set" out east here Steve W thought it was a good idea to profile 47790 before she rides off into the sunset but found it a bit perplexing. he asks if you would have a read via the link and if anybody can fill in the gaps via the blog or me here he will be chuffed(and get some sleep) Thanks

http://busandtrain.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/the-many-numbers-and-history-of-47-790.html

The small short lived 47/6 sub class was created for Scottish sleeper workings (within Scotland) they apparently had an uprated ETS index and modified brake blocks fitted.
 

D6975

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The small short lived 47/6 sub class was created for Scottish sleeper workings (within Scotland) they apparently had an uprated ETS index and modified brake blocks fitted.

And when displaced from sleeper duties by pairs of 37s, they became dedicated East coast 'Thunderbird' locos. The shot in the bay at Donny is of the loco on just such a duty.
 

SuffolkRaider

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Ooo thanks D6975 we were scratching our heads on that one and for once T-bird duty never entered my head
 

TheEdge

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Why are class 37's taking over and where did you hear about this?

Because the 37s are in far better nick reliability wise than the 47s. They can also work with a Mk2 DBSO rather than top and tail. Also thanks to better wiring they can be used with one driver per train unlike the 47s which need two.

The anticipated end date for the 47s is the end of the month (or possibly sooner) with T&T 37s from then on. The short hauled set may go to one 37 and a DBSO although that is looking slowly less and less likely.

No rumours, all cold hard facts, 37s are coming, 47s are going.
 

fgwrich

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And in doing so sadly confining the last of DRSs 47s to storage. At least this time they are to be sold on for pres or to other TOCs (not scrap for once! Well, except maybe for 841!)
 

fgwrich

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GBRF could be a possibility depending on how long it takes to ship the next batch of 66s over - and depending on how well the Riviera / Harry Needle Hire contract is going. While Freightliner seems to be having at least one of it's own Ex FGW 47s reinstated at Barrow Hill.

47501 seems to be linked with Jeremy Hoskins, WCRC will probably take on at least 1 or two.
 

SuffolkRaider

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Apparently according to Rail mag DRS have bought 3 DBSO`s from BARS 2 to go on hire to Northern for Cumbrian lines and the third for Anglia in the autumn. Now I thought they already had 2 with one ready for use but I could be wrong. Should be easy as the 37`s are through wired
 

physics34

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Much love to 47790 and all the 47/7s in the exceptional RES livery.
 

fgwrich

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Apparently according to Rail mag DRS have bought 3 DBSO`s from BARS 2 to go on hire to Northern for Cumbrian lines and the third for Anglia in the autumn. Now I thought they already had 2 with one ready for use but I could be wrong. Should be easy as the 37`s are through wired

Indeed - DRS Have 2 at the moment both undergoing an substantial overhaul for return to traffic (one now with DRS at Crewe while the other is still in RVEL Derby) - They like all the Anglian Mk2s, were in a dire state when they finally left Anglia, and several years of open storage has done many of the fleet no favours either. But it's good too see what will now be 5 coming back into traffic with DRS - BARS bought theirs for their once upon a time proposed Okehampton to Exeter St James Park service, the Network Rail fleet and at least 1 if not 2 hopefully joining or in Pres - IIRC the Exiled never turned a wheel in service Nothern Ireland Railways 'Gatwick Set' one is now preserved on the Downpatrick & County Down Railway.

Wiring wise, they are being modified to operate from the Bluestar system - Compatible with the Blue Star fitted 31s & 37s, sadly not with the Green Dot fitted Class 47s.

Much love to 47790 and all the 47/7s in the exceptional RES livery.

Indeed. As much I like plenty of the other liveries the fleet as carried, my top 3 certainly are First Great Western Green/Gold, Intercity Swallow and the excellent Rail Express Systems. A truly excellent livery for a wonderful workhorse. And I think Roundel Designs finest (the same firm designed the BR 'Railfreight Sector' Sections - Petroleum, Metals etc, Great Western Trains 'Merlin' Livery & Southern Railway's liveries).
 
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ryan125hst

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Because the 37s are in far better nick reliability wise than the 47s. They can also work with a Mk2 DBSO rather than top and tail. Also thanks to better wiring they can be used with one driver per train unlike the 47s which need two.

The anticipated end date for the 47s is the end of the month (or possibly sooner) with T&T 37s from then on. The short hauled set may go to one 37 and a DBSO although that is looking slowly less and less likely.

No rumours, all cold hard facts, 37s are coming, 47s are going.

I'm surprised to hear that given that 47's are common on railtours in comparison to the 37's. What's going wrong with them and is it just DRS's locos that are suffering or are class 47's struggling now in general? I've seen a few YouTube videos of them top and tailing the short set and it certainly looks smart with everything in DRS livery (although the 37's won't change this as they'll also be in DRS livery presumably). It's also surprising that the 37's are slightly older than the 47's (if Wikipedia is correct that is! :lol:)

As for multiple working, I thought some 47's had TDM which would be compatible with class 47's? Presumably DRS's don't? And why do the 47's require two drivers per train?
 

TheEdge

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I'm surprised to hear that given that 47's are common on railtours in comparison to the 37's. What's going wrong with them and is it just DRS's locos that are suffering or are class 47's struggling now in general? I've seen a few YouTube videos of them top and tailing the short set and it certainly looks smart with everything in DRS livery (although the 37's won't change this as they'll also be in DRS livery presumably). It's also surprising that the 37's are slightly older than the 47's (if Wikipedia is correct that is! :lol:)

I think its down to the fact that with DRS now getting the 68s the 47s have been let by the wayside with only the bare minimum of work done on them so the remaining DRS locos are less than reliable. On the other hand the 37s have been very well looked after by DRS.

As for multiple working, I thought some 47's had TDM which would be compatible with class 47's? Presumably DRS's don't? And why do the 47's require two drivers per train?

The 47s used on the short set have nothing and can not communicate with each other. Which neatly leads into the two drivers issue. If a fire were to break out in the rear loco the driver in the lead loco would have no fire alarm and no way to shut the rear loco down. Thus a driver has to ride in the rear loco just in case.
 

CosherB

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DRS certainly like their 37/4's and 37/6's ..... indeed, they are continually linked with the purchase of 37/4's in preservation, with 407 and 424 seemingly now DRS bound.

The 37, along with the refurbed 73/9's, are the remaining 'Type 3' locos in use, with nothing on the horizon to replace them. Diesel loco traction now seems to be moving away from Type 4 to the higher powered Type 5's. IMO, there certainly remains a place for the likes of the 37's - one wonders how much longer they can stay reliable, despite lots of TLC from DRS.
 

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sprinterguy

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If any additional dates are required, these have been quoted from "The Allocation History of BR Diesels and Electrics - Part 3", compiled by Roger Harris, which takes the loco up to the end of its active service with EWS:

Numbers:
D1973: 11/1965 - 09/1974
47272: 09/1974 - 09/08/83
47593: 09/08/83 - 03/08/91 Renumbered as fitted with electric train supply
47673: 03/08/91 - 16/12/94 Renumbered as one of 7 locos (47671 - 677) fitted with, as mentioned, increased ETS of 75 for working sleeper trains on the Highland main line
47790: 16/12/94 - Present

Depots:
Haymarket: 11/65 - 09/83 (Spent a year working from Gateshead in 1968/69)
Eastfield: 09/83 - 03/91
Inverness: 03/91 - 04/94
Crewe Diesel: 04/94 - 11/97 (Also seems to have spent some time at Bristol Bath Road during 1993)
Motherwell: 11/97 - 06/02
Crewe Diesel: 06/02 - 01/04.
Stored at Healey Mills on 01/04/2004.

Names:
"Galloway Princess": 16/09/83 - 03/1994 (Named in a ceremony at Stranrear station, name removed at Bounds Green TMD)
"York Intercity Control": 22/03/94 - 09/1994 (Named in a ceremony at York Station, name removed at Crewe Diesel)
"Saint David/Dewi Sant": 01/03/95 - 12/2002 (Named in a ceremony at Swansea station, name removed at Crewe Diesel)

I think that the renumbering back to 47593 for the (re)naming ceremony was temporary and purely sentimental: The main difference between the Railnet dedicated 47/7s and (most of) the 47/4s was that the latter were fitted with RCH jumper cables, for working with propelling control vehicles, and twin fuel tanks (The later 47/4s, and scattered other examples, also featured twin fuel tanks, which gave rise to the "47/8" sub-class).

I would suggest that the following webpage would be of considerable value:
http://www.class47.co.uk/c47_numbers.php?index=4&jndex=1&kndex=69&s_loco=47790
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As for multiple working, I thought some 47's had TDM which would be compatible with class 47's? Presumably DRS's don't? And why do the 47's require two drivers per train?
The push-pull 47/7s (47701 - 717) used Frequency Division Multiplex, a less sophisticated version of TDM, when altered to work with newly converted DBSOs on the Edinburgh to Glasgow services. The DBSOs were modified to use Time Division Multiplex when they were transferred to the GEML to work with class 86s, so would no longer be compatible with those 47/7s. As TheEdge says, in general the 47s are not fitted with any multiple working system.
 
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physics34

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Indeed. As much I like plenty of the other liveries the fleet as carried, my top 3 certainly are First Great Western Green/Gold, Intercity Swallow and the excellent Rail Express Systems. A truly excellent livery for a wonderful workhorse. And I think Roundel Designs finest (the same firm designed the BR 'Railfreight Sector' Sections - Petroleum, Metals etc, Great Western Trains 'Merlin' Livery & Southern Railway's liveries).

Agree the railfreight liveries we great and intercity swallow was too.
 

SuffolkRaider

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Sprinter guy that was brilliant thanks Steve is going to do a follow up post after looking at your info and is off in an entirely new phase and i found a "short hauled set" page on FB I love this hobby !!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Not so seemingly bound - They are now DRS's - Here both of them are at RVEL Derby.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/37260/16863863430/in/photostream/

401's looking rather tasty now though with Highland Rail branding.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/37260/17049923232/in/photostream/

Oh my hat!! 401 looks the bits!!! I think a trip is in order !
 

TheEdge

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Sprinter guy that was brilliant thanks Steve is going to do a follow up post after looking at your info and is off in an entirely new phase and i found a "short hauled set" page on FB I love this hobby !!

If thats the "Closed Group" short hauled group then that will be your best source of info. A fair number of the posters are GA staff of varying grades, from controllers and managers to drivers and guards.
 
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