Printing tickets at home

[radamfi]

In the Netherlands, we have home print tickets, but it's not possible to buy an open ticket.

To clarify, when you buy a home print ticket for a domestic Dutch journey, it is valid for any train that day. It is not tied to a particular train. It is the opposite of the British situation where they are mostly only valid on a particular train.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Indeed, were self print extended from Advance, the only solution is a realtime link to national reservations using the Q Code. A second use means no ticket with all that that means.

The industries solution to break of journey?

In many countries including the Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, Belgium etc., they use home print and/or mobile phone tickets for normal walk on train tickets. You do need to have the matching ID so the worst fraud you could do is the same person using the same ticket twice in a day.

Cancelling a home print ticket is even possible - see the DB website for example. In fact it is easier as you don't need to visit a ticket office.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Supposing I book an open ticket with no reservations online, then select the "print at home" option - what's to stop me printing multiple copies and using them all as separate tickets, even though I've only paid for one??

You can't book an open ticket, at least you can't with VTEC.

 

[radamfi]

Gatwick Express print at home tickets can be used on any train that day. There are barcode readers at Victoria and Gatwick stations. Heathrow and Stansted Express tickets are scanned on the train. Stansted Express let you return within 30 days, and Heathrow Express seem to allow you use a single within 3 months, whereas if you buy it from a machine you only get 3 days.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Annoyingly there is no station anywhere on the Wirral where you can pick up advance tickets bought online. This can be very inconvenient as many online sales sites will not post the tickets to you unless you buy well over a week in advance.

 

[Andrewlong]

I would like the option of being able to send tickets to an app on a smartphone or a tablet. It's a pity that the emails received when purchasing tickets online through the various websites aren't valid for travel.

It's a better situation than on many heritage Railways. I wanted to buy a ticket for the Severn Valley Railway in advance and all I was offered was the option of having it posted to me at a greater cost than buying it on the day!

 

[GlosRail]

I've just this week been down to Italy and back by train using a print a home tickets all the way.

The ticket inspector had a bar code scanner with him, and scanner the tickets. It seem to also record which seats needed to be checked and which didn't as when they changed staff the new man knew which passengers to check and who to miss out.

My tickets were all for booked train, and reserved seats.

 

[LTJ87]

I've seen a fair number of people challenged on EMT because they haven't got the payment card used to book the print-at-home ticket "My PA booked it" etc etc. Don't think I've seen anyone had to buy a new ticket though.

 

[yorkie]

As to if the booking engines 'should' be set to a specific card, this is based on the fact that their emails still say so. For example:

I think the example you provide is simply the old wording and hasn't been revised. Southern state "A valid payment card must be present for ticket collection" when you add a ticket to your basket, and VTEC say "you must have both a credit/debit card and your ticket booking reference" in their email confirmation. (My emphasis)

I bought some East Coast advances(on the EC website) a few weeks ago and selected print-at-home and had no problems at all. After booking and printing them I had to change one of the bookings and this was very easily done on the EC website & the new ticket printed out(you also have to present the old one).

On the train the TM "zapped" the hologram with a hand held device and that was it. On neither trip was any ID requested(although it clearly stated on the ticket that you were required to have it),nor was our 2-together railcard asked for.

Based on my experience I would be happy to do print-at-home again,but as a matter of interest what "rights" do you forfeit Yorkie?

Lucky you booked with East Coast! Some Train Companies do not allow the changes, for example this "disgrace" experienced by a Virgin Trains customer. There are no such problems for paper tickets.

Some people have been caught out when buying tickets for other people, and were then told "it can't be amended". There are no such problems for paper tickets.

Some people have been caught out by Virgin Trains with a £5 charge for not having printed their e-ticket, or even told it cannot be done. This can happen for various reasons including broken printers, and customer service can be "diabolical" when this occurs. There are no such charges for paper tickets.

With most Train Companies you have to bring the selected form of ID, such as the card you used to make the booking with (the last 4 digits are checked), if you lose the ID, they may refuse to let you travel, even with alternative ID such as a passport, as this unhappy Virgin Trains customer found out. There are no ID requirements for paper tickets.

Therefore, I recommend paper tickets, unless you are certain the operator has a policy that does not infringe on any of your rights.

 

[dvboy]

Some people have been caught out when buying tickets for other people, and were then told "it can't be amended". There are no such problems for paper tickets.

Virgin Trains make you separately type the name of the person travelling as per the ID; you can't purchase the ticket without doing this. That said, I've never been asked to show ID on the now 6 occasions I've used print-at-home. The example given is around 11 months old, so perhaps this is a more recent improvement.

Some people have been caught out by Virgin Trains with a £5 charge for not having printed their e-ticket, or even told it cannot be done. This can happen for various reasons including broken printers, and customer service can be "diabolical" when this occurs. There are no such charges for paper tickets.

There is no obligation for a train company to print out a print-at-home ticket at the station. It is clearly what it says it is - print-at-home, and if you're going to print at home I'd say the onus is on the customer to ensure they have a printer that works before doing so. No sympathy in this case. The £5 charge sounds like locally applied discretion.

With most Train Companies you have to bring the selected form of ID, such as the card you used to make the booking with (the last 4 digits are checked), if you lose the ID, they may refuse to let you travel, even with alternative ID such as a passport, as this unhappy Virgin Trains customer found out. There are no ID requirements for paper tickets.

It isn't the case that you have to specify the ID required when booking with Virgin Trains (if it was the case - the example given is from September 2013 - then it isn't anymore), the email with the link to download the ticket states:

The e-ticket(s) is booked under the name of XXXXXXXX. On the day of travel the passenger will need to bring an ID (Credit or Debit card, National Railcard, Passport or Driving Licence). If they don’t, they’ll be requested to purchase a new ticket for their journey.

On the ticket itself, under the passenger name, is printed:

This ticket is only valid when presented with a valid form of ID issued in the name of the person holding the ticket: Credit or Debit card, National Railcard, Passport or Driving Licence

In fact TOD is more restrictive as you have to carry the specific card use for payment to collect them.

Personally, I find print-at-home rather useful as it cuts out the time-consuming step of collecting tickets at a station.

 

[yorkie]

Virgin Trains make you separately type the name of the person travelling as per the ID; you can't purchase the ticket without doing this. That said, I've never been asked to show ID on the now 6 occasions I've used print-at-home. The example given is around 11 months old, so perhaps this is a more recent improvement.

That's still an added complexity/restriction that doesn't exist for paper tickets. It's particularly problematical for Companies who know they want an employee to attend a meeting but are unsure at the time of booking which employee will travel.

There is no obligation for a train company to print out a print-at-home ticket at the station. It is clearly what it says it is - print-at-home, and if you're going to print at home I'd say the onus is on the customer to ensure they have a printer that works before doing so. No sympathy in this case. The £5 charge sounds like locally applied discretion.

It's VT's policy to charge £5, and any such costs can be completely avoided by choosing TOD rather than Print at Home.

It isn't the case that you have to specify the ID required when booking with Virgin Trains (if it was the case - the example given is from September 2013 - then it isn't anymore), the email with the link to download the ticket states:

It used to be the case. I don't know what the policy is of each TOC these days (and they keep changing their minds so there's no point in me trying to learn them all!) but some of them do require ID, and even if they let you bring any ID, it's still an added requirement not applicable to TOD, and is therefore easily avoided.

In fact TOD is more restrictive as you have to carry the specific card use for payment to collect them.

That's not my experience since the changes of April 2014.

Personally, I find print-at-home rather useful as it cuts out the time-consuming step of collecting tickets at a station.

I'd rather spend a few seconds getting a ticket machine to print my tickets, than spend the same time (or even longer) printing it myself and having to worry about ID and whether or not the Train Company allows me to make changes or not.

I hope you never have to change your journey plans, because if you do, you will be regretting that choice. But, the choice is yours, and we can agree to disagree.

 

[dvboy]

That's still an added complexity/restriction that doesn't exist for paper tickets. It's particularly problematical for Companies who know they want an employee to attend a meeting but are unsure at the time of booking which employee will travel.

In which case you wouldn't be buying advance tickets and therefore wouldn't be using print-at-home.

It's VT's policy to charge £5, and any such costs can be completely avoided by choosing TOD rather than Print at Home.

A case of left hand saying something different from right hand then, as the email with link to download tickets has an FAQ which states

What if I don’t have the e-ticket(s) printed?
A: If you don’t have your printed e-ticket(s) and nominated form of ID(s) while travelling, you will be asked to pay the full fare available on the day of travel. Please note that you won’t be able to print your e-ticket(s) at the station.

That printed policy looks old as it refers to print-at-home being a "trial" when they are very much fully rolled our now. I agree this can be avoided if using TOD, although XC charge £1 to use TOD if Print-at-home is available, but this is not my point - it is clear what a print-at-home ticket is by its name so I don't understand why people would expect to be able to print it off at a station. You wouldn't for a sporting event or gig or an airline ticket.

It used to be the case. I don't know what the policy is of each TOC these days (and they keep changing their minds so there's no point in me trying to learn them all!) but some of them do require ID, and even if they let you bring any ID, it's still an added requirement not applicable to TOD, and is therefore easily avoided.

Yes but there's a difference between bringing a form of ID from a list and the specific card used to purchase. Most people would routinely carry at least one of these anyway, surely? If you can't keep up with the policies of different TOCs, don't quote them here.

I'd rather spend a few seconds getting a ticket machine to print my tickets, than spend the same time (or even longer) printing it myself

Assuming there are no queues, the screen isn't at such an angle so as you can see what you're typing easily, and the machine is working, which is out of your control unlike your printer at home, which is there right next to you when you book normally.

I hope you never have to change your journey plans, because if you do, you will be regretting that choice. But, the choice is yours, and we can agree to disagree.

Did it today actually, bought a £9.10 advance to Manchester and chose not to travel in the end. Yes, I've lost out, but it would only be the same loss as if I'd done TOD instead of print-at-home (in fact TOD would have cost me £1 more unless I'd bought from a different TOC). That's the risk you weigh up when you choose to buy an Advance, no matter what format you get it in.

 

[yorkie]

In which case you wouldn't be buying advance tickets and therefore wouldn't be using print-at-home.

Why wouldn't you? As I said before, a Company may know someone will attend a meeting but may not have decided who exactly.

A case of left hand saying something different from right hand then, as the email with link to download tickets has an FAQ which states

What if I don’t have the e-ticket(s) printed?
A: If you don’t have your printed e-ticket(s) and nominated form of ID(s) while travelling, you will be asked to pay the full fare available on the day of travel. Please note that you won’t be able to print your e-ticket(s) at the station.

You earlier told me you do not have to nominate ID, you are now saying the Train Companies do state you need to bring your "nominated form of ID"?

Agree on the last point, although XC charge £1 to use TOD if Print-at-home is available.

Then avoid the XC website.

Yes but there's a difference between bringing a form of ID from a list and the specific card used to purchase. Most people would routinely carry at least one of these anyway, surely?

I agree that it's a big difference. I agree "most" (but not all) people carry one of these. It's not clear which applies though. Each TOC may have its own policy? I don't want to worry about such matters so I won't be using Print@Home.

Did it today actually, bought a £9.10 advance to Manchester and chose not to travel in the end. Yes, I've lost out, but it would only be the same loss as if I'd done TOD instead of print-at-home

In that case, there was no difference. But in many other cases, there is a loss of rights!

(in fact TOD would have cost me £1 more unless I'd bought from a different TOC).

It's easy to avoid using the XC website. I'm boycotting them, and would welcome others boycotting them too, but if you want to use them, that's your choice. (You will find that trainsplit.com will reduce your overall costs if you are a regular user of XC trains)

 

[Wallsendmag]

Of course if you are traveling in one of the trial areas you can have your flexible M ticket on your phone.

 

[dvboy]

Why wouldn't you? As I said before, a Company may know someone will attend a meeting but may not have decided who exactly.

Because if you don't know who is travelling you wouldn't enter a name and therefore wouldn't complete the transaction.

You earlier told me you do not have to nominate ID, you are now saying the Train Companies do state you need to bring your "nominated form of ID"?

I was answering a different point, about not being able to print at the station, but it looks like the wording needs updating on the VT email.

In that case, there was no difference. But in many other cases, there is a loss of rights!

Could you given an example? Only Advance tickets can be printed at home, and the terms are the same no matter which format they are on (yes, I know some TOCs will allow a change online with a charge - I don't have the experience to say if VT or XC will).

It's easy to avoid using the XC website. I'm boycotting them, and would welcome others boycotting them too, but if you want to use them, that's your choice. (You will find that trainsplit.com will reduce your overall costs if you are a regular user of XC trains)

I'm not really a regular user, and the £9.10 was fairly reasonable for Wolverhampton-Manchester in advance. Does trainsplit.com do Print at home then?

 

[najaB]

Why wouldn't you? As I said before, a Company may know someone will attend a meeting but may not have decided who exactly.

In which case they would buy a ticket and collect it at the station (or have it posted). That's not the target market for print at home.

 

[yorkie]

In which case they would buy a ticket and collect it at the station (or have it posted). That's not the target market for print at home.

Because if you don't know who is travelling you wouldn't enter a name and therefore wouldn't complete the transaction.

So, we all agree Print @ Home isn't suitable at all in some scenarios. Great

I was answering a different point, about not being able to print at the station, but it looks like the wording needs updating on the VT email.

I know you were, but it was an interesting quote, as it stated something you'd earlier told me wasn't the case So, how can we be sure the selected ID isn't required? You just quoted something stating it is!

Could you given an example? Only Advance tickets can be printed at home, and the terms are the same no matter which format they are on (yes, I know some TOCs will allow a change online with a charge - I don't have the experience to say if VT or XC will).

If you wish to change the date/time of the ticket, this is amendable at any booking office if it's a normal ticket.

In contrast, some TOCs have a policy of not allowing Print@Home tickets to be amended whatsoever.

I'm not really a regular user, and the £9.10 was fairly reasonable for Wolverhampton-Manchester in advance.

That's not being questioned.

Does trainsplit.com do Print at home then?

No. I said it will save you money overall if you're a regular XC user.

There is no compelling reason to use the XC website; it's not cheaper and it can be more expensive.

There is not much point in us debating this any further; we can agree to disagree.

The advice is there; take it or leave it!

 

[dvboy]

I know you were, but it was an interesting quote, as it stated something you'd earlier told me wasn't the case So, how can we be sure the selected ID isn't required? You just quoted something stating it is!

Because nowhere in the booking process does it ask you to select a type of ID - only to provide the name printed on it - and also it's printed on the ticket as I quoted previously.

We've gone off topic discussing XC's website, but I'll continue to use it to do print-at-home for my convenience, when I need XC's advance tickets, as I can choose my seat there too. I'll use other websites when I'm travelling with other TOCs or don't want an Advance.

 

[infobleep]

Because nowhere in the booking process does it ask you to select a type of ID - only to provide the name printed on it - and also it's printed on the ticket as I quoted previously.

We've gone off topic discussing XC's website, but I'll continue to use it to do print-at-home for my convenience, when I need XC's advance tickets, as I can choose my seat there too. I'll use other websites when I'm travelling with other TOCs or don't want an Advance.

Whenever I travel using XC, I manually try out splitting my journey into multiple sections at different stations. In the past I've saved £20 doing this.

I guess it would technically be possible to get print at home for all the sections of the journey that are an advance. So you might get 3-4 print at home tickets. In this case you could still use the XC Web Site and save money. You may end up with the odd ticket which isn't an advance and would need to be picked up at a station or sent in the post.

That is more work than using a split ticketing Web Site but when I last used one it didn't seem to work that well for advanced tickets. I'm sure things have improved since then as I don't travel on XC that often so don't need to split tickets so often.

 

[yorkie]

Whenever I travel using XC, I manually try out splitting my journey into multiple sections at different stations. In the past I've saved £20 doing this.

I guess it would technically be possible to get print at home for all the sections of the journey that are an advance. So you might get 3-4 print at home tickets. In this case you could still use the XC Web Site and save money. You may end up with the odd ticket which isn't an advance and would need to be picked up at a station or sent in the post.

But the XC website will not tell you this, and it can be a rather time consuming process to do this manually. That's not the XC site saving you money; that's you saving yourself money!

You also have to be careful not to make any mistakes, and also if you change your travel plans, a change might not be possible at all. If XC do allow a change of plans on e-tickets (some TOCs do and some don't) you would have to pay 3-4 x £10 admin fees. (In contrast, Trainsplit only charges one £10 admin fee for the entire journey).

That is more work than using a split ticketing Web Site but when I last used one it didn't seem to work that well for advanced tickets. I'm sure things have improved since then as I don't travel on XC that often so don't need to split tickets so often.

It's getting better for Advance tickets all the time, as further improvements are added.

 

[anme]

I think the example you provide is simply the old wording and hasn't been revised. Southern state "A valid payment card must be present for ticket collection" when you add a ticket to your basket, and VTEC say "you must have both a credit/debit card and your ticket booking reference" in their email confirmation. (My emphasis)
Lucky you booked with East Coast! Some Train Companies do not allow the changes, for example this "disgrace" experienced by a Virgin Trains customer. There are no such problems for paper tickets.

Some people have been caught out when buying tickets for other people, and were then told "it can't be amended". There are no such problems for paper tickets.

Some people have been caught out by Virgin Trains with a £5 charge for not having printed their e-ticket, or even told it cannot be done. This can happen for various reasons including broken printers, and customer service can be "diabolical" when this occurs. There are no such charges for paper tickets.

With most Train Companies you have to bring the selected form of ID, such as the card you used to make the booking with (the last 4 digits are checked), if you lose the ID, they may refuse to let you travel, even with alternative ID such as a passport, as this unhappy Virgin Trains customer found out. There are no ID requirements for paper tickets.

Therefore, I recommend paper tickets, unless you are certain the operator has a policy that does not infringe on any of your rights.

...unless the convenience of "print at home" tickets outweighs these disadvantages in your specific situation. For me, not having to get to the station 10-20 minutes early to be sure of buying or collecting a ticket is often a winning advantage, regardless of what rights I lose.

However, I'm not defending the erosion of passenger rights, and I note that other countries seem to manage things better.

 

[infobleep]

But the XC website will not tell you this, and it can be a rather time consuming process to do this manually. That's not the XC site saving you money; that's you saving yourself money!

You also have to be careful not to make any mistakes, and also if you change your travel plans, a change might not be possible at all. If XC do allow a change of plans on e-tickets (some TOCs do and some don't) you would have to pay 3-4 x £10 admin fees. (In contrast, Trainsplit only charges one £10 admin fee for the entire journey).

It's getting better for Advance tickets all the time, as further improvements are added.

I hadn't considered the change of ticket costs. I guess once I buy a ticket I never change my plans as that would cost more money! Actually I once excessed a ticket to travel earlier but that's about it.

 

[kieron]

Why wouldn't you? As I said before, a Company may know someone will attend a meeting but may not have decided who exactly.

I think a more common scenario is:

Company buys a ticket for A to travel to a meeting.
A is off work sick on the day.
Company sends B instead.

In an ideal world, the ticket could be issued to the company, so anyone with a business card and an acceptable form of ID could travel with it. The risk of duplicate tickets must be pretty low for a business, as people travelling together usually sit together.

I've no idea how Crosscountry staff actually handle this sort of thing, though. I don't live or work near their network in any case.