4,30am train horn wakes residents

[leaffall]

I live next to a primary school and I can hear the kids playing, in the summer when the windows are open its very noticeable. The PE teacher has s bit of a gob on him too, however it's never even crossed my mind to complain about the noise, I can't for a moment imagine compelling the teachers to roam the playground telling the kids to keep it down because "the man across the road is working nights"

I remember watching an episode of 'Inside Gatwick' which featured this bloke who had retired to a house near Gatwick then spent most of his day in garden with a clipboard noting the times of aircraft he deemed noisy then wrote a lengthy email, his house was full of filing cabinets with his copies. God please I hope they get a second runway. What an absolute melt God I hope they get a second runway

 

[Islineclear3_1]

So getting back on topic, what will the local residents expect when the crossing is reopened? Surely ALL trains will be required to sound the horn once drivers know that the crossing is back in use to warn pedestrians of their approach.

 

[leaffall]

If there is a whistle board they'll only sound it between 7.00 and 23.00 or if they see someone and feel it's needed, it's not a definite that it would have a whistle board, and I know of a few that have been removed because of noise complaints, but if the crossing is a busy one, and it is difficult to sight an approaching train then I can't see it being removed so they'll have to put up with it.

 

[driver_m]

At least someone has got the point.

It is my understanding that local EHOs look to see that noise nuisance is controlled, managed and minimised. Accordingly whether it is railways, schools or whoever they must do everything they can mitigate against it.

The attitude of "we are a railway (or school) and we can make as much as noise as we want" does not work with local EHOs.
If the railway answers to the EHO that by sounding a horn by a train at 0430 was due for a safety reason or warning of someone on track, etc then in my opinion it would be accepted.
The school next to me had the wrong attitude of "we are a school and the children can make as much noise as they like.". With the local EHO they have now compiled a policy on noise pollution and the teachers now control/supervise the children with more respect for the neighbours.

I am stunned at your attitude to the school. I really am.

And as a final point if I see anyone trackside at whatever time of the night, they get tooted. To hell with your EHO.

 

[wheelnrail]

Non story. What do you expect living next to an active rail line? If these people complain over something as quiet as two tone horns I can't imagine their shock when they hear a full horn sequence or multiple horn sequences in the US.

Besides if a horn was blown it's from a safety aspect, not "just because"

 

[DaleCooper]

I am stunned at your attitude to the school. I really am.

You're not alone, I think every other reader of this topic would agree with you.

 

[driver_m]

You're not alone, I think every other reader of this topic would agree with you.

I can imagine a couple that wouldn't.

As an extra point there are no whistle boards on the single line to wrexham. So any tooting would be for some other reason.

 

[anme]

Whilst I agree with you in most respects but from my personal experience this answer is NOT acceptable by local Authority "Environmental Health Officers". Car drivers are aware that the Highway code states the horn should not be used between 2330 and 0700 except in an emergency.
I have used EHOs to force a nearby nursery school to reduce children shouting in a playground. The age old argument "I decided to live next to it" did not hold. Up to 20 young children screaming for 90 minutes within 30 yards of my property was not expected.
Finally with my experience working on a heritage railway we get NIMBYs who buy a house next to our railway who after hearing the trains then complain to the local EHOs. We are expected to find a solution acceptable to the complainant.

This statement is untrue. Many car drivers are either unaware of this or uninterested in following the rule. (There are no bad drivers. Only bad people.)

As previously noted, this post feels rather like satire.

 

[DaleCooper]

This statement is untrue. Many car drivers are either unaware of this or uninterested in following the rule. (There are no bad drivers. Only bad people.)

As previously noted, this post feels rather like satire.

In my experience most car drivers seem to think the horn is used to tell the people in the house they have just left that they are driving away.

 

[PHILIPE]

Not a Railway noise incident, but I'm a church bell ringer and quite a few years ago, somebody complained to the vicar by phone (call box in those days) re the noise of the bells so he asked them if he could hear the traffic going by and did it drown out the sound of the bells. The complainant answered "Yes". The vicar said you're not complaining about the noise of the traffic !!
Just goes to show how people can be prejudiced against church bells as well as the railways

 

[sammorris]

Non story. What do you expect living next to an active rail line? If these people complain over something as quiet as two tone horns I can't imagine their shock when they hear a full horn sequence or multiple horn sequences in the US.

Besides if a horn was blown it's from a safety aspect, not "just because"

But they don't know it's being blown for safety reasons. The average person knows nothing of how the railway operates and is probably rather alarmed at being woken at 4:30AM by a freight train horn several days running, when this never used to happen before in many years of living next to the railway. I mean, they're not going to sleep through it, are they? And as for moving away from the railway, what sale value does a house have if you can't sleep in it? If I knew nothing of the railway, I think I might panic.

Maybe if it had been explained to residents that this was just for engineering works, for safety reasons, and it wasn't permanent nor about to be expanded to other times of night, it never would have ended up in the local paper.

 

[dk1]

But they don't know it's being blown for safety reasons. The average person knows nothing of how the railway operates and is probably rather alarmed at being woken at 4:30AM by a freight train horn several days running, when this never used to happen before in many years of living next to the railway. I mean, they're not going to sleep through it, are they? And as for moving away from the railway, what sale value does a house have if you can't sleep in it? If I knew nothing of the railway, I think I might panic.

Maybe if it had been explained to residents that this was just for engineering works, for safety reasons, and it wasn't permanent nor about to be expanded to other times of night, it never would have ended up in the local paper.

Well in that case they now know or should find out. If I need to use the horn at 02:20 then I will use it. Again it's a 24/7 railway & if you live near it deal with it.

 

[CockneySparrow]

Non story. What do you expect living next to an active rail line? If these people complain over something as quiet as two tone horns I can't imagine their shock when they hear a full horn sequence or multiple horn sequences in the US.

Besides if a horn was blown it's from a safety aspect, not "just because"

Agreed, makes me laugh, if they wanted to live next to a railway line that made no noise they should have moved next to one that Beeching had lifted 50 years ago lol

 

[Antman]

At least someone has got the point.

It is my understanding that local EHOs look to see that noise nuisance is controlled, managed and minimised. Accordingly whether it is railways, schools or whoever they must do everything they can mitigate against it.

The attitude of "we are a railway (or school) and we can make as much as noise as we want" does not work with local EHOs.
If the railway answers to the EHO that by sounding a horn by a train at 0430 was due for a safety reason or warning of someone on track, etc then in my opinion it would be accepted.
The school next to me had the wrong attitude of "we are a school and the children can make as much noise as they like.". With the local EHO they have now compiled a policy on noise pollution and the teachers now control/supervise the children with more respect for the neighbours.

I very much agree, a EHO will take into account both sides of any dispute and for anybody to simply claim that as a railway/school/pub or whatever they can make as much noise as they want and that anybody who doesn't like it should go and live elsewhere just doesn't cut the mustard. Yes there are those that will complain about anything and everything but that doesn't mean all complaints should simply be dismissed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well in that case they now know or should find out. If I need to use the horn at 02:20 then I will use it. Again it's a 24/7 railway & if you live near it deal with it.

And isn't the road network 24/7? So if I'm driving past your house at 02.20 and need to use the horn on my car will you be happy to deal with it? After all you chose to live near a road!

 

[cjmillsnun]

So getting back on topic, what will the local residents expect when the crossing is reopened? Surely ALL trains will be required to sound the horn once drivers know that the crossing is back in use to warn pedestrians of their approach.

Probably not. The crossing will go from AHB to a different type, probably with obstacle detection that will be interlocked with the signalling.

 

[EM2]

And isn't the road network 24/7? So if I'm driving past your house at 02.20 and need to use the horn on my car will you be happy to deal with it? After all you chose to live near a road!

If you need to, then yes, I'd deal with it. And by 'need', that is if another vehicle poses a danger.
If you want to use your horn just to make a noise, or attract your mate's attention, then no, I wouldn't be happy to 'deal with it'.

 

[dk1]

And isn't the road network 24/7? So if I'm driving past your house at 02.20 and need to use the horn on my car will you be happy to deal with it? After all you chose to live near a road!

A train driver is instructed to use the warning horn if engineers are on or about the track it's just one of those things. I live not far from a railway & it's often the case in the wee hours. As for roads, I for years had to suffer stupid neighbours friends & family who for some reason feel the need to 'toot toot' as they pull away waving when I was on nights & trying to sleep during the day. Again I had to deal with it.

 

[Antman]

A train driver is instructed to use the warning horn if engineers are on or about the track it's just one of those things. I live not far from a railway & it's often the case in the wee hours. As for roads, I for years had to suffer stupid neighbours friends & family who for some reason feel the need to 'toot toot' as they pull away waving when I was on nights & trying to sleep during the day. Again I had to deal with it.

Yes I can understand both your and 'EM2' point and unnecessary use of car horns is annoying and as with train horns should only be used when necessary

 

[ANorthernGuard]

So from what I can gather from this thread is.

A. Kids can't be kids and play in a SCHOOL because it might be a tad too noisy for residents who chose to move next to a school.

B.Trains are great unless they wake people up

C.Pot and Kettle does certainly ring true to a lot of people.

 

[TheEdge]

No, you missed the bit where you get EHO's against a school while simultaneously complaining about NIMBYS.

Because children should be silent but not preserved railways! Damn the young

 

[ANorthernGuard]

No, you missed the bit where you get EHO's against a school while simultaneously complaining about NIMBYS.

Because children should be silent but not preserved railways! Damn the young

I knew I missed something lol

 

[steamybrian]

1. It is a matter of excessive noise.
2. People think they can make as much noise as possible because they lived there first.
3. It annoys me when you make a complaint of excessive noise they basically reply "f*** off" .
4. Yes- My local preserved railway has been issued with noise abatement notices which have been dealt with but the railway is still running normally.
5. Whilst working for Railtrack I also had to deal with Environment Health Officers.
6. Finally the school next to me is still running normally with children playing outside for short periods which I not complaining about.
7. I shall repeat again it is about-- excessive noise .


For details see
https://www.gov.uk/report-noise-pollution-to-council

Details on railway noise
https://www.gov.uk/noise-pollution-road-train-plane/railway-noise
Quote="There are no legal limits to noise from existing railways"

 

[DaleCooper]

1. It is a matter of excessive noise.
2. People think they can make as much noise as possible because they lived there first.
3. It annoys me when you make a complaint of excessive noise they basically reply "f*** off" .
4. Yes- My local preserved railway has been issued with noise abatement notices which have been dealt with but the railway is still running normally.
5. Whilst working for Railtrack I also had to deal with Environment Health Officers.
6. Finally the school next to me is still running normally with children playing outside for short periods which I not complaining about.
7. I shall repeat again it is about-- excessive noise .


For details see
https://www.gov.uk/report-noise-pollution-to-council

You lost all credibility by complaining about NIMBYs in your first post in this thread, whatever you say now will be seen in that light. I notice you have avoided any mention of NIMBYs in your latest post.

 

[TheEdge]

1. It is a matter of excessive noise.

Quite, children playing is quite the excessive noise...

2. People think they can make as much noise as possible because they lived there first.

Its one thing when its individuals but its a school, children make noise, I used to live across the road from a secondary school, it was awful, for a few short periods throughout the day there was the terrible noise of children enjoying themselves.

4. Yes- My local preserved railway has been issued with noise abatement notices which have been dealt with but the railway is still running normally.
5. Whilst working for Railtrack I also had to deal with Environment Health Officers.

So we are all sure you understand from the POV of the (big) railway noise is something which happens. You worked for Railtrack, assuming you went lineside so know the rules regarding horns and the sounding thereof, even at night?

6. Finally the school next to me is still running normally with children playing outside for short periods which I not complaining about.

Nice and quietly and calmly though I hope. Don't want them getting too stimulated, exited and loud.

7. I shall repeat again it is about-- excessive noise .

Is it really excessive noise to sound a horn to alert track workers to the presence of a train? Are you and your NIMBY friends honestly suggesting that comfort of people who have moved next to a service and or industry is more important than the safety of those who work on it.

"Sorry little Joey. Daddy isn't coming home this morning because Mrs Jones wasn't sleeping well next to the 150 year old railway so she complained and now trains can't sound their horns"

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Sorry kids keep the noise down while you are ermmmmm "Playing" at ermmmmm "school"

Sorry Driver can't blow your horn anymore people are complaining from that new housing estate they built next to that crossing thats been there for 100 odd years.

kids playing in a playground at school is hardly excessive surely its expected.

Trains blow there horns for safety not for fun
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Quite, children playing is quite the excessive noise...



Its one thing when its individuals but its a school, children make noise, I used to live across the road from a secondary school, it was awful, for a few short periods throughout the day there was the terrible noise of children enjoying themselves.



So we are all sure you understand from the POV of the (big) railway noise is something which happens. You worked for Railtrack, assuming you went lineside so know the rules regarding horns and the sounding thereof, even at night?



Nice and quietly and calmly though I hope. Don't want them getting too stimulated, exited and loud.



Is it really excessive noise to sound a horn to alert track workers to the presence of a train? Are you and your NIMBY friends honestly suggesting that comfort of people who have moved next to a service and or industry is more important than the safety of those who work on it.

"Sorry little Joey. Daddy isn't coming home this morning because Mrs Jones wasn't sleeping well next to the 150 year old railway so she complained and now trains can't sound their horns"

You have it pretty spot on Edge. I haven't seen a topic this ridiculous for a while now.

 

[Antman]

Sorry kids keep the noise down while you are ermmmmm "Playing" at ermmmmm "school"

Sorry Driver can't blow your horn anymore people are complaining from that new housing estate they built next to that crossing thats been there for 100 odd years.

kids playing in a playground at school is hardly excessive surely its expected.

Trains blow there horns for safety not for fun
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


You have it pretty spot on Edge. I haven't seen a topic this ridiculous for a while now.

But telling the complainant that the noise is coming from kids trains or whatever doesn't make it any less of a nuisance to them.

I used to work at a supermarket distribution centre which was a 24 hour operation and part of the site couldn't be used at night because of the noise nuisance it would cause to nearby residents. You can't just say to them "if you don't like it go and live somewhere else".

 

[scott118]

I used to work at a supermarket distribution centre which was a 24 hour operation and part of the site couldn't be used at night because of the noise nuisance it would cause to nearby residents. You can't just say to them "if you don't like it go and live somewhere else".

is that because the distribution centre was built after the housing estate was developed? I'm not reading any complaints, from those who live next to a pub, come closing time..perhaps it is only a matter of db's and frequency, that cause the most upset.

 

[Antman]

is that because the distribution centre was built after the housing estate was developed? I'm not reading any complaints, from those who live next to a pub, come closing time..perhaps it is only a matter of db's and frequency, that cause the most upset.

No the distribution centre was there first but that makes no difference. It has since closed and more housing has been built on the site.

 

[driver_m]

So according to antmans logic we can go and buy a house near an airport for example, (say a military on) and because of those naughty noisy jet engines, we could get a noise order on them and make them fly in really quietly because I want a good nights kip. All us shift workers should demand all noisy work in the day stop too as its our right to peace n quiet too. Get real.

 

[scott118]

No the distribution centre was there first but that makes no difference. It has since closed and more housing has been built on the site.

Hopefully it was Tesco. Maybe it was people power who shut the centre - if only that same group could make those pesky schools and railways, as quiet....