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Ridiculously excessive CIS announcements!
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CaptainHaddock
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At least there's genuine sincerity and regret in the announcements that shows how much they care. That poor computer-generated software must spend the majority of its working day feeling sad at the amount of delays it has to announce.
The problem with excessive announcements is that eventually your brain switches off to all announcements. However, I blame the excess of "nanny state" announcements for this, rather than those actually related to trains. But, of course, many of those related to trains are pointless - such as those relating to the presence or imminent departure of trains that are just not there.
After all, what confidence does it inspire in the competence of the industry when they go to the trouble of implementing an announcement system that says "stand clear of the train on platform nn, it is about to leave" when it left 2 minutes ago? It would be better to have no announcement than one that makes you look incompetent, surely?
After all, what confidence does it inspire in the competence of the industry when they go to the trouble of implementing an announcement system that says "stand clear of the train on platform nn, it is about to leave" when it left 2 minutes ago? It would be better to have no announcement than one that makes you look incompetent, surely?
Statto
Established Member
Agreed, Merseyrail are especially irritating when it comes to excessive announcements, just announce the station & any other rail connections that can be made at the said station.
Announcements that genuinely benefit the blind should always be made, but less important ones could and perhaps should be scaled back. Maybe even at a lower volume, or in a different voice (as done on some tube trains).
I've noticed that GTR has scaled back a lot of automatic announcements at Hatfield, but it still only announces the next train when it's on 'final approach' and not when at the platform. Nor at any time in advance.
Perhaps the visually impaired are just expected to ask someone.
I've noticed that GTR has scaled back a lot of automatic announcements at Hatfield, but it still only announces the next train when it's on 'final approach' and not when at the platform. Nor at any time in advance.
Perhaps the visually impaired are just expected to ask someone.
andrewkeith5
Member
Preface - thank you to OP for opening up the opportunity for me to have this rant!
I cannot think of a station with more announcements - particularly pointless ones - than Gatwick Airport. This isn't helped by the fact that the platform staff have developed a ridiculous habit of repeating them all twice for EVERY single train that passes through.
On last count, I was waiting something like 25 minutes for a train and heard the CCTV message three times, automated "stand clear of the platform edge" messages 6 times times, a manual "stand back" 6 times, the platform announcers shouting stand back 4 times, and I think somewhere in between all that junk there was the odd announcement about a train arriving or departing - I can't be sure. Maybe one terminated. I think I counted approximately 2 minutes of silence in the whole period - although that may have been because trains departing blocked out the noise of the announcements.
By that point I was seriously considering standing as close to the edge of a platform as is safe (which, by London Underground standards, is about 6-8 inches with trains travelling at much, much faster speeds) just to see how annoyed the platform staff would get.
Has nobody at Southern Railway yet grasped that the more you tell people not to do something, they more they want to do it - and similarly, the more you repeat the same information, the less likely anyone is to pay attention to it? Also - who, in the entirety of the developed world, is still not aware that there is CCTV in a railway station at a major international airport? Because if that hasn't made it into common knowledge yet I think it might be time to give up... The airport itself doesn't feel the need to remind everyone every 10 minutes, why does the railway station have to?
I cannot think of a station with more announcements - particularly pointless ones - than Gatwick Airport. This isn't helped by the fact that the platform staff have developed a ridiculous habit of repeating them all twice for EVERY single train that passes through.
On last count, I was waiting something like 25 minutes for a train and heard the CCTV message three times, automated "stand clear of the platform edge" messages 6 times times, a manual "stand back" 6 times, the platform announcers shouting stand back 4 times, and I think somewhere in between all that junk there was the odd announcement about a train arriving or departing - I can't be sure. Maybe one terminated. I think I counted approximately 2 minutes of silence in the whole period - although that may have been because trains departing blocked out the noise of the announcements.
By that point I was seriously considering standing as close to the edge of a platform as is safe (which, by London Underground standards, is about 6-8 inches with trains travelling at much, much faster speeds) just to see how annoyed the platform staff would get.
Has nobody at Southern Railway yet grasped that the more you tell people not to do something, they more they want to do it - and similarly, the more you repeat the same information, the less likely anyone is to pay attention to it? Also - who, in the entirety of the developed world, is still not aware that there is CCTV in a railway station at a major international airport? Because if that hasn't made it into common knowledge yet I think it might be time to give up... The airport itself doesn't feel the need to remind everyone every 10 minutes, why does the railway station have to?
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CharlieSpotted
Member
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This. In many places with a CCTV system, the odd sign is clearly legally sufficient. Why are railway stations different? I wonder if it's a case of "we have a PA system, so we might as well use it?"
That's entirely what it is. At the TOC I work for, the only requirement which we are audited on in terms of CCTV awareness is signage. There are a few different CCTV pre-recorded announcements built into the system but they lie dormant 99% of the time and just get manually triggered every now and then if there's an oik looking suspicious at a bike rack or something.
So yes it is a case of "we have a PA system and might as well use it".
And of course at Gatwick, in order to leave the platform you have to use an escalator which leads to another stream of PA system abuse as it shouts at you "not to block the landing area". And people do - so, again, it's utterly pointless and ineffective. But no doubt it led to a few £k more profit on the installation work.
And I never understand why Gatwick needs a platform PA announcement for the arrival of a Gatwick Express that terminates there - to the level of detail that we're informed that it came from London Victoria and the driver's grandmother celebrated her birthday yesterday (OK, I jest!)? Anyone meeting that service is unlikely to be stood on the platform, as Southern make it hard enough to purchase a ticket and get through the barriers for someone wanting to catch a train, never mind someone just meeting a passenger!!
And I never understand why Gatwick needs a platform PA announcement for the arrival of a Gatwick Express that terminates there - to the level of detail that we're informed that it came from London Victoria and the driver's grandmother celebrated her birthday yesterday (OK, I jest!)? Anyone meeting that service is unlikely to be stood on the platform, as Southern make it hard enough to purchase a ticket and get through the barriers for someone wanting to catch a train, never mind someone just meeting a passenger!!
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Absolutely agree that excessive and often pointless announcements leads to people filtering them all out - even the relevant ones.
Southern will sometimes make an automated announcement instructing folks to “Listen to on-train announcements“.
They have a value, but overuse dilutes their importance and partly defeats the point of them in the first place.
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
The most pointless has to be the brain torturing Virgin Trains on board "Thafety announcement" before and after each single station - does my head in.
Apparently - it is only required once per journey ...officially. E Coast manage very well without it.
At least (rants passim) - the Luton Airport Parkway torture seems to be reduced. Nothing beats a nice , friendly , driver and /or real conductor PA call...
Apparently - it is only required once per journey ...officially. E Coast manage very well without it.
At least (rants passim) - the Luton Airport Parkway torture seems to be reduced. Nothing beats a nice , friendly , driver and /or real conductor PA call...
tsr
Established Member
A few points regarding Southern announcements mentioned above:
1. Yes, some of the Gatwick Airport announcements are very irritating in length and frequency, but it's mainly the automatic Transec-legacy stuff that drives people mad. Announcements about standing back behind yellow lines are very important and there is a noticeable observed safety risk when they are not made (I should know - in previous lives I have had to stand on the Up Fast platform at Gatwick for 8 hours at a time minus break, performing various duties!). Trains pass at high speeds on Platforms 4-7 at times, and it's well worth getting people to keep themselves and their ever-more-voluminous luggage back. The auto-announcements are OK, but manual ones can have better intonation, so that even if you do not understand English, the meaning is understood.
Unfortunately the same security and escalator announcements are repeated at 0230 on a quiet winter Tuesday morning when staff notably outnumber passengers. This is when the silliness really begins, I have to say! But security announcements are usually no more than every 30mins at quieter times and I've never heard them during normal system operation at frequencies over 4x per hour.
2. Announcing trains on final approach per GTR as above can be a good idea when the calling pattern is very long (as is the case on many GTR/Southern services) and could not be repeated when the train is in the platform due to dwell time limits, or when people are in "turn up and go" mode and do not arrive a long time before the train departs. For longer distance services, I prefer more announcements to be made - as an example, I'd want a train running non-stop between London and York to have its calling points announced very precisely and clearly, because it would be a slight nuisance to require an intermediate stop once onboard...
3. Southern "Please listen to announcements" messages are played when the PIS is faulty and cannot provide audio/visual automated information. There is otherwise the risk of inaccurate scrolling display information, and even occasionally faulty PA announcements. This message is better than nothing, as a prompt as to where to find information, and will be displayed until geographical PIS info is available again, or the driver logs off on appropriate stock. This message will time out on some 171/8 units per current firmware. In a similar vein are the "Stand clear of the doors", "Keep aisles clear" and other pre-recorded announcements, which in accordance with current training should only be used as a supplement to manual announcements if at all possible. These latter pre-recorded options can in turn time out, or be replaced by another. Limited sequencing and volume selection are available for train crew. You can therefore sequence "Stand clear of the doors" and then a reset message "Please listen to announcements" until geographical info is found once again. A caveat, though: I am not 100% sure if all of the above works on 442s/455s - in the former case because I don't have anything to do with their PIS systems, and in the latter case because I've only just got hold of more detailed PIS programming instructions and have yet to have a play with sequencing things.
1. Yes, some of the Gatwick Airport announcements are very irritating in length and frequency, but it's mainly the automatic Transec-legacy stuff that drives people mad. Announcements about standing back behind yellow lines are very important and there is a noticeable observed safety risk when they are not made (I should know - in previous lives I have had to stand on the Up Fast platform at Gatwick for 8 hours at a time minus break, performing various duties!). Trains pass at high speeds on Platforms 4-7 at times, and it's well worth getting people to keep themselves and their ever-more-voluminous luggage back. The auto-announcements are OK, but manual ones can have better intonation, so that even if you do not understand English, the meaning is understood.
Unfortunately the same security and escalator announcements are repeated at 0230 on a quiet winter Tuesday morning when staff notably outnumber passengers. This is when the silliness really begins, I have to say! But security announcements are usually no more than every 30mins at quieter times and I've never heard them during normal system operation at frequencies over 4x per hour.
2. Announcing trains on final approach per GTR as above can be a good idea when the calling pattern is very long (as is the case on many GTR/Southern services) and could not be repeated when the train is in the platform due to dwell time limits, or when people are in "turn up and go" mode and do not arrive a long time before the train departs. For longer distance services, I prefer more announcements to be made - as an example, I'd want a train running non-stop between London and York to have its calling points announced very precisely and clearly, because it would be a slight nuisance to require an intermediate stop once onboard...
3. Southern "Please listen to announcements" messages are played when the PIS is faulty and cannot provide audio/visual automated information. There is otherwise the risk of inaccurate scrolling display information, and even occasionally faulty PA announcements. This message is better than nothing, as a prompt as to where to find information, and will be displayed until geographical PIS info is available again, or the driver logs off on appropriate stock. This message will time out on some 171/8 units per current firmware. In a similar vein are the "Stand clear of the doors", "Keep aisles clear" and other pre-recorded announcements, which in accordance with current training should only be used as a supplement to manual announcements if at all possible. These latter pre-recorded options can in turn time out, or be replaced by another. Limited sequencing and volume selection are available for train crew. You can therefore sequence "Stand clear of the doors" and then a reset message "Please listen to announcements" until geographical info is found once again. A caveat, though: I am not 100% sure if all of the above works on 442s/455s - in the former case because I don't have anything to do with their PIS systems, and in the latter case because I've only just got hold of more detailed PIS programming instructions and have yet to have a play with sequencing things.
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CharlieSpotted
Member
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Absolutely!
Two cracking examples recently:
* A conductor on London Midland who announced cheerfully that we were approaching "The People's Democratic Republic of Birmingham" to much merriment.
* A conductor on Arriva Trains Wales who, on a late night service out of Birmingham, advised us to have ready "All tickets, passes, railcards and creative excuses. Prizes given for the best excuse!"
Two of the pointless ones that get me are the computer controlled announcements telling you to stand back from the platform edge, next train approaching does not stop here - on a terminating service in a bay platform, and the bizarre addition of telling you where the service has come from - at the start of its journey, as I found out while waiting at Guildford the other day for the Ascot service, to be told that this is the service from Guildford.
Aictos
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A few weeks ago I was at Liverpool Lime Street (High Level) and it seem to be a endless barrage of announcements one after another!!!
Try London Victoria, that's hard to beat and it's "new and improved", which means its loud enough to draw blood from your ears in some places on the station. Sadly Network Rail didn't agree with me that it's unacceptable to have 4 large PA speakers firing directly at the ticket office, so that the staff in the ticket office are almost inaudible when the incessant drone of announcements is in full flow.
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
This is a topic that has been discussed in much detail in the past. For some interesting reading on the topic, the link is:-
www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=107470
www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=107470
I've always thought it odd that they go overboard on announcements on the train - given the ridiculous lack of any at stations. Liverpool South Parkway (High Level) is the place where this comes off the worst. Not having any departure announcements there so that people can differentiate between trains to Birmingham, Norwich, Scarborough and a local stopper all within around 20 minutes of each other from the station is a bit silly.
TheNewNo2
Member
CIS notifications, both on-train and off-, can get a bit ridiculous sometimes. Back in January I was taking the District Line at Monument, during severe delays. There were twice as many delay announcements as trains (east or west), and that isn't including all the other announcements relating to security, etc.
Blindtraveler
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I love it when anyone, with particular refference to companys or old ladies age 70 plus make assumptions on what the vissually impaired want, or are capable of (NOT)!
As both a VIP and an Enthusiast, the following are whats needed in terms of station CIS: Pre Announcement of service several minutes before arrival giving full info e.g TOC, Calls, Via Points, Dividing Points, Formation, Accommodation, buffet, no catering available, etc. Approaching announcement, short and sweet. Delay or cansilation or platform alteration announcement with a clear, accurate and corperat jargan free delay or cansilation reason (few will fully understand it but its better than fobbing everyone off witha catch all Opperational issues or similar). Advance warning of disruption due to engineering works, bad weather, special events etc, played when its quiet. Stand clear from the edge of Platform X, fast train, or train not in service. Info on any particular ticket validitty or network disruption e.g. LU Delays. The nanny state securitty and safety stuff can go! By all means show it on a screan but noboddy needs to hear it 6 times an hour. Personally speeking I miss the old NSE way of announcing where you are e.g. Rochester, this is Rochester when a service arrives, but know Im in the minoritty here.
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