4,30am train horn wakes residents

[merlodlliw]

Perhaps something out of nothing,yet another complaint to do with the Saltney to Rossett redouble and closed crossings.

link http://www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/14...r-answers-over-early-morning-train-horns.aspx


Full story below

Residents call for answers over early morning train horns
Published date: 30 March 2015 | Published by: Steve Creswell
Wrexham Leader reporter


"A NEIGHBOURHOOD is being woken up at 4.30am every day by the blaring horn of a passing train, it has been claimed.

Mum-of-two Stephanie Burton, of Tegid Way, Saltney, said she and her neighbours had been experiencing the unwanted alarm call for weeks and they have no idea why it started.

“It’s driving me nuts!” she said.

“And I’m not the only one. It’s all residential around here. It’s just so loud.

“You end up feeling really tired and cranky all day. It’s no fun at all.”

The nearby level crossing at Green Lane has been closed to all forms of traffic since February 14 so the horn could not be a warning to motorists or pedestrians, she said.

Stephanie, 50, added: “It started after the crossing was closed and has been going on for weeks now. Nobody can cross it, so why is it necessary to sound a horn?”

Jon Crompton, spokesman for Network Rail, said it would be difficult to pinpoint which company was responsible for sounding the horn, but added that at that time of the morning it was likely to be a freight train rather than a passenger service.

Network Rail is responsible for the tracks and infrastructure, not the train services which run on them, but he said: “I understand why people are complaining, however the horns are only sounded when it is necessary.

“Passenger services usually run between 5am and 11pm but the railway is open 24-hours-a-day.

“While it’s antisocial, if a train has to use its horn then it can’t just not use it because of the time of day, even if it is early in the morning.”

Meanwhile, the company has apologised to locals for the continued closure of the Green Lane crossing to traffic, pedestrians and cyclists. It was due to reopen on March 9.

A spokesman for Network Rail in Wales even vowed to have staff man the crossing to help pedestrians and cyclists across safely.

She said: “We are currently upgrading the level crossing at Green Lane, Saltney, to provide a safer, more reliable railway for passengers and communities on the North Wales border. The work will see the crossing upgraded from a half barrier to full crossing barrier to allow for more frequent and faster journeys for passengers between North and South Wales.

“We are currently slightly delayed with our work programme due to enabling adequate time for safety testing of the new signalling and crossing equipment.

“Although we can’t safely open the crossing to vehicles yet, we appreciate the frustration this has caused to the community and have made arrangements to allow pedestrians and cyclists across accompanied by a member of staff.”

She added: “We would like to apologise for any inconvenience these works may cause and thank the community for bearing with us whilst we carry out these work.”

 

[A-driver]

Live next to a railway and you will probably hear trains...

 

[Searle]

Something out of nothing? The residents are obviously displeased by something and they're complaining about it like they have the right to.

 

[headshot119]

Fuss over nothing, and I very much doubt it's "everyday" at 04:30, there's nothing booked that early most days!

 

[IanD]

I live in a house next to a road and people driving past and starting their engines often wake me throughout the night. But that's what you get from living next to a road. The road was there when I moved so I knew what to expect.

Imagine if the trains didn't sound their horns for whatever crossing they are sounding for and someone was injured because they didn't see/hear the train coming. The residents would be complaining the other way and probably demand the closure of this unsafe crossing.

 

[zuriblue]

Fuss over nothing, and I very much doubt it's "everyday" at 04:30, there's nothing booked that early most days!

Nearest thing is an ATW ECS move at 4:45

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...15/03/30/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[A-driver]

Is there a siding/berthing point round there? If so I would gues that a horn everyday at that location is part of a unit/loco prep

 

[Searle]

Fuss over nothing, and I very much doubt it's "everyday" at 04:30, there's nothing booked that early most days!

Not really a fuss over nothing if they feel the need to complain

 

[scott118]

Not really a fuss over nothing if they feel the need to complain

how can you compromise safety?

 

[Searle]

Not really a fuss over nothing if they feel the need to complain

how can you compromise safety?

I never said that

 

[dk1]

I often sound the horn 'out of hours' by mistake. Becomes such a habit that you just do it then curse out loud when looking at my watch realising its 01:15 Not done on purpose.

 

[scott118]

if the crossing has been taken out of use for repairs, is the whistle board still visible to approaching drivers? As above, horns are used out of the curfew hours of 23.00-07.00, by need or simply by accident.

Would the residents have a similar complaint, if the crossing was operational i wonder, as it only seems to be a recent complaint..

 

[westcoaster]

If you look at last week there were engineering trains booked to start from there a little after 0430, maybe associated to this.
Plus the time to report to the rag and getting published.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/B15873/2015/03/25/advanced

 

[steamybrian]

Live next to a railway and you will probably hear trains...

Whilst I agree with you in most respects but from my personal experience this answer is NOT acceptable by local Authority "Environmental Health Officers". Car drivers are aware that the Highway code states the horn should not be used between 2330 and 0700 except in an emergency.
I have used EHOs to force a nearby nursery school to reduce children shouting in a playground. The age old argument "I decided to live next to it" did not hold. Up to 20 young children screaming for 90 minutes within 30 yards of my property was not expected.
Finally with my experience working on a heritage railway we get NIMBYs who buy a house next to our railway who after hearing the trains then complain to the local EHOs. We are expected to find a solution acceptable to the complainant.

 

[DaleCooper]

Whilst I agree with you in most respects but from my personal experience this answer is NOT acceptable by local Authority "Environmental Health Officers". Car drivers are aware that the Highway code states the horn should not be used between 2330 and 0700 except in an emergency.
I have used EHOs to force a nearby nursery school to reduce children shouting in a playground. The age old argument "I decided to live next to it" did not hold. Up to 20 young children screaming for 90 minutes within 30 yards of my property was not expected.
Finally with my experience working on a heritage railway we get NIMBYs who buy a house next to our railway who after hearing the trains then complain to the local EHOs. We are expected to find a solution acceptable to the complainant.

Pots and kettles anyone?

 

[t_star2001uk]

Whilst I agree with you in most respects but from my personal experience this answer is NOT acceptable by local Authority "Environmental Health Officers". Car drivers are aware that the Highway code states the horn should not be used between 2330 and 0700 except in an emergency.
I have used EHOs to force a nearby nursery school to reduce children shouting in a playground. The age old argument "I decided to live next to it" did not hold. Up to 20 young children screaming for 90 minutes within 30 yards of my property was not expected.
Finally with my experience working on a heritage railway we get NIMBYs who buy a house next to our railway who after hearing the trains then complain to the local EHOs. We are expected to find a solution acceptable to the complainant.

Section 122 of the Railways Act give statutory protection to the railways from nuisance complaints. I have known it to be used several times with regards to noise complaints about the railway. Local EHO's tend to look at the normal laws regarding a noise nuisance, but the railways must do everything they can to mitigate against it (Being a good neighbour). I dont know if the Railways Act applies to preserved lines but as A-Driver said " Live next to the railway you will probably hear trains".

 

[steamybrian]

Section 122 of the Railways Act give statutory protection to the railways from nuisance complaints. I have known it to be used several times with regards to noise complaints about the railway. Local EHO's tend to look at the normal laws regarding a noise nuisance, but the railways must do everything they can to mitigate against it (Being a good neighbour). I dont know if the Railways Act applies to preserved lines but as A-Driver said " Live next to the railway you will probably hear trains".

I agree " live next to a railway and you will hear trains". It does not mean the train can blast the horn all night adjacent to someones house.
I live next to a school and I hear children playing. It does not mean the children or school can make as much noise as they wish simply because the school has been there longer.

 

[Rugd1022]

If you look at last week there were engineering trains booked to start from there a little after 0430, maybe associated to this.
Plus the time to report to the rag and getting published.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/B15873/2015/03/25/advanced

If it's the case that engineering works were in progress then every rail movement must be preceeded by a single blast on the horn by the driver to warn nearby staff of that movement. I'm afraid it's tough luck if you happen to live close by - the safety of those on the job is more important than spoiling someone's kip. It may sound harsh but it's true. I've been on hundreds of T3 jobs where I've had to sound the horn at an ungearthy hour, but if it saves death or injury to the P/Way bods then so be it!

 

[t_star2001uk]

I agree " live next to a railway and you will hear trains". It does not mean the train can blast the horn all night adjacent to someones house.
I live next to a school and I hear children playing. It does not mean the children or school can make as much noise as they wish simply because the school has been there longer.

Unfortunately the rule book says that it must happen. In the article posted by the OP it states that the crossing is a half barrier and is currently out of action due to upgrade work taking place. So 2 reasons to sound the horn are:

1: Possibly passing a signal at danger as it does state in the article about testing new signalling and crossing equipment being slightly delayed.
2: Crossing not working. There is a requirement to sound the horn until the front of the train is on the crossing.

Now if a train passes said signal at danger with authority and does not sound the horn, then goes on to either hit a track worker or a person using the said crossing, who would be responsible. Will it be the driver or will it be the local resident who has their sleep disturbed or will it be the local council who have served a noise abatement order on the railway.

 

[steamybrian]

Unfortunately the rule book says that it must happen. In the article posted by the OP it states that the crossing is a half barrier and is currently out of action due to upgrade work taking place. So 2 reasons to sound the horn are:

1: Possibly passing a signal at danger as it does state in the article about testing new signalling and crossing equipment being slightly delayed.
2: Crossing not working. There is a requirement to sound the horn until the front of the train is on the crossing.

Now if a train passes said signal at danger with authority and does not sound the horn, then goes on to either hit a track worker or a person using the said crossing, who would be responsible. Will it be the driver or will it be the local resident who has their sleep disturbed or will it be the local council who have served a noise abatement order on the railway.

Several readers are missing my point.:roll:
I am not objecting to a train sounding a horn in an emergency or for safety reasons at any time. I fully support what you said.
Accordingly if ONE train sounded their horn ONCE to warn someone on the track then in my view that IS acceptable at any time.

My words were if a train sounded their horn CONTINUOUSLY all night next to someones house would that still be OK.?
The example above of the school next to me was that the school was quiet when I first moved there with excellent experienced teachers. The teachers retired replaced with younger staff who let the children outside for longer and longer periods with little control. Nursery school then had extended hours opening 6 days between 0715 and 1830 hrs but when I first arrived it was 5 days 0900- 1700 approx.
Finally because I have lived longer in my house than my neighbour does that mean I can make as much noise as I wish.
Night time work has to be undertaken but it is a matter of respecting and considering your neighbours to minimise noise.

 

[DaleCooper]

My words were if a train sounded their horn CONTINUOUSLY all night next to someones house would that still be OK.?

Has anyone suggested that horns are, or should be, sounded continuously?

 

[onlinespotting]

I can't get over getting an EHO against a school?! Surely the school operates within the hours of 700 and 2300 ...

 

[badassunicorn]

Unfortunately the rule book says that it must happen. In the article posted by the OP it states that the crossing is a half barrier and is currently out of action due to upgrade work taking place. So 2 reasons to sound the horn are:

1: Possibly passing a signal at danger as it does state in the article about testing new signalling and crossing equipment being slightly delayed.
2: Crossing not working. There is a requirement to sound the horn until the front of the train is on the crossing.

Now if a train passes said signal at danger with authority and does not sound the horn, then goes on to either hit a track worker or a person using the said crossing, who would be responsible. Will it be the driver or will it be the local resident who has their sleep disturbed or will it be the local council who have served a noise abatement order on the railway.

Drivers are no longer required to sound the horn when passing a signal at danger with authority although most still do.

 

[A-driver]

Drivers are no longer required to sound the horn when passing a signal at danger with authority although most still do.

Depends though, if they are testing signals overnight or working on failed signalling then there is a high chance of S&T workers being on the line so sounding the horn is required.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I can't get over the fact that the OP has summoned an EHO to force a nursery school to reduce children shouting in the playground! Does he not like children? Children ARE noisy and playing outside allows them to let off steam.

Perhaps the OP is getting hard of hearing which brings with it an intolerance to loud noise in general

 

[DaleCooper]

I can't get over the fact that the OP has summoned an EHO to force a nursery school to reduce children shouting in the playground! Does he not like children? Children ARE noisy and playing outside allows them to let off steam.

I agree and it's even worse when you take into account their complaint about NIMBYs.

By the way it wasn't the OP but steamybrian.

Finally with my experience working on a heritage railway we get NIMBYs who buy a house next to our railway who after hearing the trains then complain to the local EHOs. We are expected to find a solution acceptable to the complainant.

 

[Darandio]

It does not mean the train can blast the horn all night adjacent to someones house.

Talk about exaggerating the issue to suit an agenda!

 

[spongsdad]

Several readers are missing my point.:roll:
I am not objecting to a train sounding a horn in an emergency or for safety reasons at any time. I fully support what you said.
Accordingly if ONE train sounded their horn ONCE to warn someone on the track then in my view that IS acceptable at any time.

My words were if a train sounded their horn CONTINUOUSLY all night next to someones house would that still be OK.?
The example above of the school next to me was that the school was quiet when I first moved there with excellent experienced teachers. The teachers retired replaced with younger staff who let the children outside for longer and longer periods with little control. Nursery school then had extended hours opening 6 days between 0715 and 1830 hrs but when I first arrived it was 5 days 0900- 1700 approx.
Finally because I have lived longer in my house than my neighbour does that mean I can make as much noise as I wish.
Night time work has to be undertaken but it is a matter of respecting and considering your neighbours to minimise noise.

You would be glad that you didn't live in Canada or the US then. On a recent visit to New Westminster, near Vancouver, I stayed in a hotel adjacent to rail/road crossing. There was a regular freight at 5:30a.m. Such trains are something over ½ mile long and travel at not more than about 15 mph; less in urban areas. They also sound their considerably robust klaxons continuously as they traverse the crossing. If you live near a railway, you need to face up to the fact that it will be noisy.

 

[steamybrian]

Section 122 of the Railways Act give statutory protection to the railways from nuisance complaints. I have known it to be used several times with regards to noise complaints about the railway. Local EHO's tend to look at the normal laws regarding a noise nuisance, but the railways must do everything they can to mitigate against it (Being a good neighbour). I dont know if the Railways Act applies to preserved lines but as A-Driver said " Live next to the railway you will probably hear trains".

At least someone has got the point.

It is my understanding that local EHOs look to see that noise nuisance is controlled, managed and minimised. Accordingly whether it is railways, schools or whoever they must do everything they can mitigate against it.

The attitude of "we are a railway (or school) and we can make as much as noise as we want" does not work with local EHOs.
If the railway answers to the EHO that by sounding a horn by a train at 0430 was due for a safety reason or warning of someone on track, etc then in my opinion it would be accepted.
The school next to me had the wrong attitude of "we are a school and the children can make as much noise as they like.". With the local EHO they have now compiled a policy on noise pollution and the teachers now control/supervise the children with more respect for the neighbours.

 

[DaleCooper]

At least someone has got the point.

If you'd made your point clearly in the first place then everyone would have got it.