First Class travel in the 21st Century

[Nick279]

do you thinks its ethical these days to have first class accomodation with no room for second class passengers to sit or stand? Is this a luxury we can no longer afford. Is financial segregation acceptable.

 

[mrcheek]

Ive been on Virgin XC trains where first class was full and there were plenty of seats available in standard.

 

[Nick279]

never seen that but at least its getting utilised, I`ve been on a few services where first class has been empty and second class oversubscribed, its also seemed like a waste of resouces to me.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Pendolinos do seem to have an excessive number of 1st class coaches

 

[Nick279]

I wonder why that is, I`m sure first class will need to be phased out in the coming years, Im not actually old enough to remember 3rd class, what happened to that?

 

[Mojo]

do you thinks its ethical these days to have first class accomodation with no room for second class passengers to sit or stand? Is this a luxury we can no longer afford. Is financial segregation acceptable.

I think First Class accommodation is perfectly acceptable on trains when it can be properly enforced, primarily on InterCity routes. Certaintly from my experiences on the Great Eastern and Chiltern routes, with sparse on-train checking, 'First Class' used to be a synonym for 'sit here if you want to cause trouble' at weekends.

On certain routes First Class certaintly helps capture some of the class that most of the railway had once, such as when you are travelling FGW and they serve you a glass of wine on a Friday night. Some wealthy people might never consider travelling by Standard class on a train because on many trains it is cramped, crowded and noisy, and would probably opt for the luxury car or airliner.

 

[Metroland]

First class tickets allow the rest of us to have cheaper fares. The also provide a little bit of extra luxury when you have a long journey and are not that much more booked in advance.

They allow businessmen to sit, relax, to have a meal and work.

In fact, I would like to see 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, or if you like Premier, Standard and Economy. With the latter having even more seats and possibly spaces for standing room only with no allocated seating sold even cheaper.

 

[Mojo]

Or how about the idea of "Standard Plus" or something on those off-peak VWC services where First Class is undersubscribed. They could designate one coach and you could pay an on-train supplement and get to sit in the coach, benefiting from the better seats but not being entitled to any of the free drinks, etc.

 

[Nick279]

"wealthy people might never consider travelling by Standard class on a train because on many trains it is cramped, crowded and noisy, and would probably opt for the luxury car or airliner."

haha, I think these wealthy people may soon have to rough it with the rest of the great unwashed now we appear to have limited resouces
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

First class tickets allow the rest of us to have cheaper fares. The also provide a little bit of extra luxury when you have a long journey and are not that much more booked in advance.

They allow businessmen to sit, relax, to have a meal and work.

In fact, I would like to see 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, or if you like Premier, Standard and Economy. With the latter having even more seats and possibly spaces for standing room only with no allocated seating sold even cheaper.

the original third class accommodation were open cattle wagons, well at least we get a roof these days I`ve often wondered though how the railways get away with standing room only, the buses only allow a certain amount standing by law, if someone gets injured as the train jolts, are the TOCs responsible for any compensation claim only the regulations dont appear to make provision for this?

 

[Metroland]

Hardly the same, trains don't take sharp curves, run over bumpy roads and braking is relatively gentle and so on.

You can allocate everyone a seat if you like, but that means booking in advance, which is not always convenient. Who knows with modern mobile technology?

 

[Nick279]

the tilting mechanisms have also improved things thankfully, I`m not sure its practical to allocate everyone a seat, but it always seems wrong to me to see people standing while seats are available in other areas of the train, I cant really see this continuing if we still wish to encourage people to use the rails. Possibly we are just too many for the UK, the roads are bumper to bumper and the trains standing room only, we are only a small island in reality I suppose.

 

[gordonthemoron]

People frequently stand in 2nd class, even when there are seats available for any one of the following reasons:

1. Don't want to sit next to someone
2. Seats occupied with luggage
3. Seats are available in another coach but can't be arsed to move

 

[Nick279]

yes Im sure they do

 

[me123]

People frequently stand in 2nd class, even when there are seats available for any one of the following reasons:

1. Don't want to sit next to someone
2. Seats occupied with luggage
3. Seats are available in another coach but can't be arsed to move

I've even had someone throw me out of a seat because they, in their own words, "deserve it". :roll: On my local services, all of the above are frequently seen. I simply put number 1 down to snobbery and large egos when sensible 2/2 seating is available.

As for number 3; I've sat in a rear carriage of a 320 with 5 other people whilst people were literally pressed against the inter-connecting door in the next carriage :roll: Reason: I presume it's closer to the exits at Queen Street. I still beat them, though I have also seen the early morning 6 car EK train: the rear 2 coaches are usually empty and the front 2 are packed. Again, it's closer to the barriers.

And these people will have the cheek to say that there's an "ovecrowding issue".

 

[metrocammel]

I've even had someone throw me out of a seat because they, in their own words, "deserve it". :roll:

And you moved? What a weak person you are?!

If they had reserved it, then fair enough, but for any other reason- that is ridiculous- and I'd have told them where to go(!)

The only exception would be if an elderly/frail person was standing, and I would then voluntarily give my seat up. However, if an Ada/Bert started waving his/her stick at me for me to move, I think I would 'not notice' them :P.

First class is good. It would be terrible to ever abolish it (on IC trains- it is pointless on the likes of 321s etc). I wouldn't say I regularly travel FC, but when I do, it's because Im making a very long journey - where you want that extra bit of comfort. I also disagree that 1st class is less popular than 2nd class, ie, I was in 2nd on a Pendo yesterday (which was busy), however, the 1st cl was equally as busy (mainly with business pax)- so the railways would probably lose many profitable business passengers in favour of air if it was abolished.

 

[Snapper]

"wealthy people might never consider travelling by Standard class on a train because on many trains it is cramped, crowded and noisy, and would probably opt for the luxury car or airliner."

haha, I think these wealthy people may soon have to rough it with the rest of the great unwashed now we appear to have limited resouces

No, as many business people will be paying through their companies. Their may be some belt-tightening that goes on, but the idea of a general recession is greatly exaggerated.

And being able to work on the train is a very effective (and cost-effective) way of utilising travel time. Often people who are working are willing to pay that extra money for the peace and quiet that First Class overs over Standard (no screaming and unruly kids, hen parties etc).

As others have mentioned, the point of First Class is that it subsidises Standard Class. So, get rid of it and ticket prices will have to increase.

 

[CosherB]

And one of the biggest advantages of First is that you avoid those tw@ts who wear 'leaky' earphones and inflict a horrid tinny noise on the rest of the carriage! Even in the 'quiet zone'!

They might be listening to their favorite music and making themselves deaf, but everyone feels like they have a demented mosquito trapped in their ear! How can these tw@ts be so selfish? Makes me want to grab their cheapo leaky earphones (good quality ones don't do this) and chuck them out the window! (If windows opened these days).

 

[Nick279]

hahahaha, yes I see your point

 

[Zamracene749]

True, but last time I travelled 1st class in the UK(last month, ArrivaXC) I ended up putting on my own headphones (Bose by the way, so hardly cheap and nasty ) to drown out the racket of gits hammering away on laptops and droning on down mobile phones. It was like travelling in a bloody typing pool. I honestly pity those people that feel forced to work on their commute to and from work.

I know this whinge sounds petty-but- if you stump up for first class surely the least you can expect is a peaceful journey? Would it be too much to ask for one - genuine- quiet coach on each train? In any class?

And one of the biggest advantages of First is that you avoid those tw@ts who wear 'leaky' earphones and inflict a horrid tinny noise on the rest of the carriage! Even in the 'quiet zone'!

They might be listening to their favorite music and making themselves deaf, but everyone feels like they have a demented mosquito trapped in their ear! How can these tw@ts be so selfish? Makes me want to grab their cheapo leaky earphones (good quality ones don't do this) and chuck them out the window! (If windows opened these days).

 

[Snapper]

True, but last time I travelled 1st class in the UK(last month, ArrivaXC) I ended up putting on my own headphones (Bose by the way, so hardly cheap and nasty ) to drown out the racket of gits hammering away on laptops and droning on down mobile phones. It was like travelling in a bloody typing pool. I honestly pity those people that feel forced to work on their commute to and from work.

I know this whinge sounds petty-but- if you stump up for first class surely the least you can expect is a peaceful journey? Would it be too much to ask for one - genuine- quiet coach on each train? In any class?

AXC do have difficulties because they only have one First Class coach. Although their business travellers are only a small proportion of their First Class users (most of whom are leisure travellers).

Of course on the main Intercity operators you do have the luxury of a full 'quiet' coach. Although, as you say - this does get abused sometimes.

 

[Nick279]

"True, but last time I travelled 1st class in the UK(last month, ArrivaXC) I ended up putting on my own headphones (Bose by the way, so hardly cheap and nasty ) to drown out the racket of gits hammering away on laptops and droning on down mobile phones. It was like travelling in a bloody typing pool. I honestly pity those people that feel forced to work on their commute to and from work."

haha, Sorry thats probably me, I`m not working though, usually aswering posts on forums like this.

 

[richa2002]

do you thinks its ethical these days to have first class accomodation with no room for second class passengers to sit or stand? Is this a luxury we can no longer afford. Is financial segregation acceptable.

Perfectly acceptable, going first class nearly always ensures a comfortable, relaxing and enjoyable journey, standard class maybe not so much if it's busy, we should have the choice .

 

[voyagerdude220]

And one of the biggest advantages of First is that you avoid those tw@ts who wear 'leaky' earphones and inflict a horrid tinny noise on the rest of the carriage! Even in the 'quiet zone'!

They might be listening to their favorite music and making themselves deaf, but everyone feels like they have a demented mosquito trapped in their ear! How can these tw@ts be so selfish? Makes me want to grab their cheapo leaky earphones (good quality ones don't do this) and chuck them out the window! (If windows opened these days).

And that pretty much perfectly sums up why I always travel FC.
A prime example last Sunday, was when I walked towards the front of my Super Voyager as we approached Glasgow, through from A to F, in order to be at the very front when we arrived- I was trying to get a Pendo back which should officially leave 2 mins before we arrived.

As soon as I entered SC, some idiot of a bloke was playing some sort of crap music, which annoyed me even though I heard it for all of 30 seconds.

As for the sheep mentality, of people sitting together as such in some carriages of a "busy" train- I've seen this several times on Voyagers and Pendos, even in FC, where I was one of 4 people in coach G, whilst H was 80% full, J 50-60%, and K had just 1 person. (Although I never sit in K myself, even at weekends)

 

[Nick279]

Perfectly acceptable, going first class nearly always ensures a comfortable, relaxing and enjoyable journey, standard class maybe not so much if it's busy, we should have the choice .

yes having the choice is an important one, I must admit on buisness travel my secretary normally books me in first class, although i do occasionally feel guity when I see people standing in second class, especially the elderly, on my personal trips however I usually opt for second class as I have no issues with that, I must admit though when I have had the occasional issue with someone playing loud music opposite, I`ve found politely asking them to turn it down, has never been an issue.

 

[me123]

And you moved? What a weak person you are?!

I just moved across the aisle where there was another seat, simply becase I couldn't be bothered getting in a fight. If there weren't a seat across the way, I probably would have stayed but sometimes you just can't be bothered.

Another thing I'd like to say is that my father travels FC (courtesy of his work) claiming that he can work better on a pendo in FC simply because of the extra space he has. Most FC are good like this.

I fail to see why people travel FC on FSR or any similar company where the only perk I can see is a slightly comfier looking chair and stupid little table lamps, but it's their money.

 

[vc-10]

First Post!!
I live near Westbury and in Windsor (parents!), so seem to commute between the two, with FGW. I always take first class. If you book in advance (and I do, it only needs to be a week or so) then I can get the upgrade for about £3, which is worth it. I do think that they should turn the buffet car around and have some more standard class seating on the HSTs though. I've never seen first completely full, but standard is often overcrowded. That being said, I've never taken an HST on a Monday morning rush hour!

 

[CosherB]

As for the sheep mentality, of people sitting together as such in some carriages of a "busy" train- I've seen this several times on Voyagers and Pendos, even in FC, where I was one of 4 people in coach G, whilst H was 80% full, J 50-60%, and K had just 1 person. (Although I never sit in K myself, even at weekends)

That's because (Virgin at least) seem to bunch all the reservations together. People seem to think they have to sit in their reserved seat, so some coaches are packed, and others nearly empty. Time and time again I see people boarding, frantically searching for their reserved seats while ignoring acres of unbooked seats all around them!

I always ignore my reserved seat (unles the train is full) and sit somewhere I fancy. If, as the train fills up, someone wants to use the seat I originally had reserved, once the train has left the station from which the reservation applies (which of course it will have done, since that's the station I joined the train) and the seat is unoccupied (which it will be, as I'm sitting elsewhere), it's available for them!

 

[me123]

^Thing is, on AP tickets, you may have to sit in your reserved seat and therefore they can tell you to do so. I personally like to use my reservation unless the train is empty, in which case I go elsewhere and avoid showing a reservation. I've never seen anyone be moved into their reserved seat.

I have seen someone, let's call them A, go to their seat to find someone in it, call them B. hat person had booked the aisle. A said to B "I have the wondow seat, please move" (or words to that extent). hock: I couldn't believe my ears! It was like 3 year olds on a plane.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Yeah I totally agree with you..

It really annoys me when VT bunch all the reservations together, especially in FC, seeing that it is rarely too busy, that you need to stick to your reserved seat, even on some peak time Primo trains, but that said, I wouldn't put money on it being a quiet affair on a Primo service, hence the higher level of service offered..

 

[djw1981]

Yeah I totally agree with you..

It really annoys me when VT bunch all the reservations together, especially in FC, seeing that it is rarely too busy, that you need to stick to your reserved seat, even on some peak time Primo trains, but that said, I wouldn't put money on it being a quiet affair on a Primo service, hence the higher level of service offered..

But bunching the reservations helps when walk-up passengers - who have paid more join the train as the crew can say the far end of that carriage is all free.