FGW Franchise

[Bletchleyite]

Not so on its return run as the 17.18 semi-fast to Oxford but that's another story and an illustration of where the ability to couple up to five more coaches could be helpful.

Yes, VT seem to make good use of their Voyagers in that sort of way, as do most London commuter operators with their various EMUs and DMUs.

I wonder if VT wished they'd gone for shorter Pendolino sets that could run in pairs?

 

[TheKnightWho]

Looks like they're already starting a Bristol-Oxford service on Sundays from April.

 

[berneyarms]

Looks like they're already starting a Bristol-Oxford service on Sundays from April.

Where are you seeing this?

Are you sure it's not the diverted trains over the Easter weekend that you're looking at?

 

[Envoy]

I hope they don't have a Great Western green livery - even if it is the traditional colour of the locos in steam days. I think that the green blends in too much with the countryside. I always liked the livery of the old blue Pullmans. (I hate the pink doors that First have).

 

[jimm]

I hope they don't have a Great Western green livery - even if it is the traditional colour of the locos in steam days. I think that the green blends in too much with the countryside. I always liked the livery of the old blue Pullmans. (I hate the pink doors that First have).

I think it's safe to say that horse has bolted. Green with white exterior doors appears to be what we'll see.

 

[21C101]

I think it's safe to say that horse has bolted. Green with white exterior doors appears to be what we'll see.

Now you lot can go misty eyed about big green engines too..

Ps SWT have just made another WoE announcement. They are going to, for the first time since 1964, start running WoE line expresses (express is their description not mine) non stop from Waterloo to Salisbury(except Clapham Jct) in 1h 10mins.

Dont know the timings west of Salisbury but based on previous class 159 workings if they only stop at Yeovil and Axminster they will do Exeter in 2h23. Not bad for 90mph max sprinters.

1h 40 will be no sweat with some more double track and linespeed increases if they get a few 222s from fellow staecoach TOC EMT once the wires reach Corby. Most of the route west of Basingstoke is straight enough for 125mph running.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Where are you seeing this?

Are you sure it's not the diverted trains over the Easter weekend that you're looking at?

I'm booked on the 11:20 Bristol-Oxford arriving at 12:52 on the 5th of April, so I'm pretty sure it's correct!

 

[jimm]

Now you lot can go misty eyed about big green engines too..

Ps SWT have just made another WoE announcement. They are going to start running WoE line expresses (express is their description not mine) non stop from Waterloo to Salisbury(except Clapham Jct) in 1h 10mins.

Dont know the timings west of Salisbury but based on previous workings if they only stop at Yeovil and Axminster they will do Exeter in 2h23. Not bad for 90mph max sprinters.

1h 40 will be no sweat with some more double track and linespeed increases if they get a few 222s from fellow staecoach TOC EMT once the wires reach Corby. Most of the route west of Basingstoke is straight enough for 125mph running.

Couldn't care less about big green engines. And if you want to talk about the wonders of SWT and Salisbury-Exeter try another thread. Nothing to do with the FGW franchise.

You also missed out the bit from their announcement about

New hourly express trains

on Sunday early evenings

and westbound only - so not exactly a regular feature of the timetable.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Now you lot can go misty eyed about big green engines too..

Ps SWT have just made another WoE announcement. They are going to, for the first time since 1964, start running WoE line expresses (express is their description not mine) non stop from Waterloo to Salisbury(except Clapham Jct) in 1h 10mins.

Dont know the timings west of Salisbury but based on previous workings if they only stop at Yeovil and Axminster they will do Exeter in 2h23. Not bad for 90mph max sprinters.

1h 40 will be no sweat with some more double track and linespeed increases if they get a few 222s from fellow staecoach TOC EMT once the wires reach Corby. Most of the route west of Basingstoke is straight enough for 125mph running.

Are you sure they'd manage it in 2h 23m? The current fastest time is 3h 21m, with 2h being the best from Paddington. Knocking an hour off seems incredibly ambitious, and knocking 2 off to 1h 40m complete fantasy.

 

[Rich McLean]

I'm booked on the 11:20 Bristol-Oxford arriving at 12:52 on the 5th of April, so I'm pretty sure it's correct!

Will be 2tph via Banbury and Old Oak during the blockade, 1tph from Swansea, and 1tph from Bristol Temple Meads. Everything else turns around at Oxford.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Will be 2tph via Banbury and Old Oak during the blockade, 1tph from Swansea, and 1tph from Bristol Temple Meads. Everything else turns around at Oxford.

That'll be it. Shame, although convenient for me!

 

[jimm]

I'm booked on the 11:20 Bristol-Oxford arriving at 12:52 on the 5th of April, so I'm pretty sure it's correct!

Which is Easter Sunday, as berneyarms said. There are also through trains the next Sunday due to diversions via Banbury and the Chiltern Line, as the alterations for engineering run all the following week until then, but you just try finding a direct Oxford-Bristol train on April 19th or beyond

 

[21C101]

New hourly express trains and westbound only - so not exactly a regular feature of the timetable.

I must admit, I'm not quite sure why on earth they are actually doing it (unless SWT have been infiltrated by the Popular Front for the Liberation of the LSWR), you would think they would stop at least at Andover if not Basingstoke as well. Funny old world.

The only thing I can (sensibly) think is stock positioning ECS workings to Salisbury being put into service. Either way 12 minutes less than their fastest previous service and only stopping at three less stations is a bit odd (would expect nearer 6 minutes saving).

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Are you sure they'd manage it in 2h 23m? The current fastest time is 3h 21m, with 2h being the best from Paddington. Knocking an hour off seems incredibly ambitious, and knocking 2 off to 1h 40m complete fantasy.

In 2007 they did one in 2h 58 despite 8 stops, spending 6 minutes at Salisbury, getting looped at Chard and four minutes at Honiton.

The 2h 23 is based on the 1h 10 mins to Salisbury (as proposed by SWT yesterday) and actual journey times of class 159 operated services in the past.

1h 10 mins Waterloo to Salisbury
30 mins non stop Salisbury to Yeovil has been done in the past by 159s (currently last up train does it non stop in 35 minutes but this includes extra minutes as it terminates at Salisbury)
43 Minutes Yeovil to Exeter with call at Axminster is possible if it gets priority at all the loops. In 2007 the 09.20 SO did Yeovil - Axminster in 19 minutes non stop and the 1720 MF did Honiton-Exeter in 15 minutes. Current minimum for Axminster Honiton is 11 Minutes. Total 48 minutes. Remove 2 minutes for not stopping at Honiton and you have 43 minutes.

1h 40 (an average of 103mph) would need redoubling and 125mph linespeed most of the way from Basingstoke to Exeter (which it is mostly straight enough for other than between Salisbury and Wilton).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Which is Easter Sunday, as berneyarms said. There are also through trains the next Sunday due to diversions via Banbury and the Chiltern Line, as the alterations for engineering run all the following week until then, but you just try finding a direct Oxford-Bristol train on April 19th or beyond

They were originally going to run the East West Rail trains from Bedford to Bristol via Oxford but I think that is now a dead duck.

Didn't Thames trains run some from Oxs - Bristol a few years back.

 

[jimm]

I must admit, I'm not quite sure why on earth they are actually doing it (unless SWT have been infiltrated by the Popular Front for the Liberation of the LSWR), you would think they would stop at least at Andover if not Basingstoke as well. Funny old world.

The only thing I can (sensibly) think is stock positioning ECS workings to Salisbury being put into service. Either way 12 minutes less than their fastest previous service and only stopping at three less stations is a bit odd (would expect nearer 6 minutes).

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


In 2007 they did one in 2h 58 despite 8 stops, spending 6 minutes at Salisbury, getting looped at Chard and four minutes at Honiton.

The 2h 23 is based on the 1h 10 mins to Salisbury (as proposed by SWT yesterday) and actual journey times of class 159 operated services in the past.

1h 10 mins Waterloo to Salisbury
30 mins non stop Salisbury to Yeovil has been done in the past by 159s (currently last up train does it non stop in 35 minutes but this includes extra minutes as it terminates at Salisbury)
43 Minutes Yeovil to Exeter with call at Axminster is possible if it gets priority at all the loops. In 2007 the 09.20 SO did Yeovil - Axminster in 19 minutes non stop and the 1720 MF did Honiton-Exeter in 15 minutes. Current minimum for Axminster Honiton is 11 Minutes. Total 48 minutes. Remove 2 minutes for not stopping at Honiton and you have 43 minutes.

1h 40 (an average of 103mph) would need redoubling and 125mph linespeed most of the way from Basingstoke to Exeter (which it is mostly straight enough for other than between Salisbury and Wilton).

We were treated to much of this just 11 days ago in the thread http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=112841

about 222s for Waterloo-Exeter - post 170 on page 12. If you have more to add on the topic, try there. It's nothing to do with the GW franchise agreement.

 

[21C101]

I hope they don't have a Great Western green livery - even if it is the traditional colour of the locos in steam days. I think that the green blends in too much with the countryside. I always liked the livery of the old blue Pullmans. (I hate the pink doors that First have).

I think one reason Green was dropped by BR was exactly that, it blended in too well to the detriment of track worker safety.Admittedly trains have spotlights now but that, light apart would not be brilliantly visible in poor light conditions.

 

[jimm]

They were originally going to run the East West Rail trains from Bedford to Bristol via Oxford but I think that is now a dead duck.

Didn't Thames trains run some from Oxs - Bristol a few years back.

There was a short-lived joint FGW-Thames service which ended in 2002 or 2003. And while the East West project now favours sending trains to Reading, there is no reason that other trains off that route could not be extended west at some point.

Equally, if the politicians decide to find the money to reopen the likes of Corsham, Wootton Bassett and Wantage Road, which it was hoped would follow the launch of the Thames-FGW service, some sort of semi-fast service would probably be needed to serve them, with Oxford being an obvious start and end point given the range of onward destinations that would be available there from 2019.

 

[LateThanNever]

We were treated to much of this just 11 days ago in the thread http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=112841

about 222s for Waterloo-Exeter - post 170 on page 12. If you have more to add on the topic, try there. It's nothing to do with the GW franchise agreement.

Except that this provides passengers with an improved and more competitive service - so they can more confidently avoid paying Worst group's extortionate fares!

 

[infobleep]

Couldn't care less about big green engines. And if you want to talk about the wonders of SWT and Salisbury-Exeter try another thread. Nothing to do with the FGW franchise.

You also missed out the bit from their announcement about

New hourly express trains and westbound only - so not exactly a regular feature of the timetable.

I couldn't see them running such expresses during peak rush hour and definitely they wouldn't be stopping at Clapham Junction during that time.

Of course if successful, it may lead to the reverse service and it running in other days than just Sundays.

It is the sort of thing I like to see rail companies do. Looking at how they can expand their network and services.

 

[Flamingo]

Except that this provides passengers with an improved and more competitive service - so they can more confidently avoid paying Worst group's extortionate fares!

Anything worthwhile to add? Or are you just going to start crayoning over an otherwise useful thread from some pretty well-informed posters.

 

[jimm]

Except that this provides passengers with an improved and more competitive service - so they can more confidently avoid paying Worst group's extortionate fares!

Since when has FGW competed with SWT for traffic between London and Salisbury? Or you mean the fantasy about 125mph between Basingstoke and Exeter? Neither is relevant to a discussion about the new FGW franchise and associated developments.

 

[HowardGWR]

Everyone seems to know what this new green livery will look like - is there an impression somewhere? I can remember a green and grey livery from a while ago; it was classier than what they use now.

 

[LateThanNever]

Since when has FGW competed with SWT for traffic between London and Salisbury?

Between London and Wiltshire, not long - just since they started.

 

[BR67]

Everyone seems to know what this new green livery will look like - is there an impression somewhere? I can remember a green and grey livery from a while ago; it was classier than what they use now.

Yes, earlier in this thread!

 

[jimm]

Between London and Wiltshire, not long - just since they started.

Wiltshire is, as I'm sure you are aware, a large county, with the bulk of its population living nowhere near the Waterloo-Exeter route, so a faster train to Salisbury is a fat lot of use to most of them. And I did specifically say London-Salisbury, not London-Wiltshire.

It's a good 20 miles from Salisbury to Pewsey, the nearest GWML station, which can, funnily enough, already be reached in 1hr 07min early on a Sunday evening by a train from Paddington that makes not one but two stops en route...

If you want to talk about these SWT changes, please use the thread about them.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=113781

 

[thelongestroad]

Yes, earlier in this thread!

Will everything be getting this green livery shortly, i.e the 15X sprinters too?

 

[HowardGWR]

Yes, earlier in this thread!

Thanks very much, ooh, that hurts my eyes. The shirt button lettering was tatty in 1934, let alone over 80 years later.

Like the Pullman Car Company, just the joint coats of arms (of London and Bristol) would have looked great, as they did then.

 

[jimm]

Will everything be getting this green livery shortly, i.e the 15X sprinters too?

The official line in Monday's announcement was

The company will expand the use of the GWR brand, currently used in its long distance First Class carriages and will rebrand before the start of the new franchise in September.

https://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk...stern-fleet-upgrade-improves-train-facilities

Which could mean almost anything. But if they are about to relivery the HST fleet, which the profusion of overhauled Mk3s returning from Scotland with the green door colours inside suggests, even though these will probably all be gone in just over three years' time, then almost anything could get the new look.

However, if the 143s, 153s and 150/1s are already being offered around for work elsewhere from 2017-18, as Clarence Yard said above, it may only be the dmus that are seen as having a long-term future in the area that get the GWR livery, so 150/0s, 150/2s, 158s and Turbos.

 

[thelongestroad]

The official line in Monday's announcement was



https://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk...stern-fleet-upgrade-improves-train-facilities

Which could mean almost anything. But if they are about to relivery the HST fleet, which the profusion of overhauled Mk3s returning from Scotland with the green door colours inside suggests, even though these will probably all be gone in just over three years' time, then almost anything could get the new look.

However, if the 143s, 153s and 150/1s are already being offered around for work elsewhere from 2017-18, as Clarence Yard said above, it may only be the dmus that are seen as having a long-term future in the area that get the GWR livery, so 150/0s, 150/2s, 158s and Turbos.

Good point. Even so, the 150/1s only have vinyl FGW logos so it'd be easy to whack GWR on the side.

 

[HowardGWR]

But if they are about to relivery the HST fleet, which the profusion of overhauled Mk3s returning from Scotland with the green door colours inside suggests, even though these will probably all be gone in just over three years' time, then almost anything could get the new look.

I was reading in Modern Railways today about that Wabtec Mk3 refurbishing. If they are only to last 5 (?) years, I suppose retention toilets and electric doors would be asking too much. Yet those two changes are what are most needed.

Am I right that these are not yet fitted? Whenever I have been on an HST I have to go to the vestibule and close the windows left by people who last opened the doors, to stop the draughts. Over a year ago mind, so perhaps improved. I understood Chiltern had improved theirs.

 

[LateThanNever]

Wiltshire is, as I'm sure you are aware, a large county, with the bulk of its population living nowhere near the Waterloo-Exeter route, so a faster train to Salisbury is a fat lot of use to most of them. And I did specifically say London-Salisbury, not London-Wiltshire.

It's a good 20 miles from Salisbury to Pewsey, the nearest GWML station, which can, funnily enough, already be reached in 1hr 07min early on a Sunday evening by a train from Paddington that makes not one but two stops en route...

If you want to talk about these SWT changes, please use the thread about them.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=113781

Thank you for the direction. But you appear not to comprehend that those time savings are useless if you prefer to go to the South of the City of Westminster rather than the North (ie ex Paddington borough). If your'e going south you can get to Victoria or London Bridge or Charing Cross for the same price as Waterloo so you have then a cheaper journey as well as an equally quick - or even quicker - journey without faffing on buses or tube. Often simpler and often cheaper to travel in Wiltshire rather than travel in London!