Missed connections when using rail ticket and concessionary travel pass

[gray1404]

I am going to be traveling on some journeys. Firsty from Liverpool to London Euston (using Super Off Peak Return £32 "Route: London Midland Only") and also from Liverpool to Brighton and back (using Advance Single £11 [£22 for round trip] "Route: Southern and London Midland Only" - and another of the same for the journey home). Prices given for before my Disabled Persons Railcard discount was applied.

I will most likely buy the above 2 tickets from Liverpool South Parkway because I will be catching the train on Merseyrail from Formby so can easily connect there onto London Midland. Between Formby and Liverpool South Parkway I shall be using my Disabled Person's Travel Pass issued by the PTE Merseytravel (which is valid on all rail services within Merseyside; so covers the journey on Merseyrail).

Neither of the above 2 tickets for these journeys are possible from Formby on such low fares, hence using my travel pass and then rail tickets. I am worried about 2 things:

1. For my outward journey I am worried the train from Formby might be delayed and what would my rights be in this case if I missed my train at Liverpool South Parkway? It doesn't matter so much on the Super Off Peak Return but with the Advance Return if I missed the train I was booked onto. Would I be allowed to continue my journey or would I have to buy I brand new ticket?

2. For my return journey, if the London Midland (or Southern) service was delayed and I didn't make the last Merseyrail service back to Formby. Would the train company have to arrange a taxi back onto Formby, or would I have to shoulder the bill because my rail ticket would end there and I was only transferring onto my concessionary travel pass (which happens to be valid by rail.)?

I have had a look at the National Rail Conditions of carriage and I am not sure how to correctly understand them.
Section C "Use of Tickets"
19. Using a combination of tickets: You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover the entire journey and one of the following applies:
(a)they are both Zonal Tickets unless special conditions prohibit their use in this way. The Ticket Seller will, if you ask, advise you whether you can use a Zonal Ticket in combination with another ticket.
(b) the train you are in calls at a station where you change from one ticket to another; or
(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport executive or local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s) is/are not.

I do not want to wrongly assume that condition B would apply there (as it is rail ticket and concessionary travel pass I'm using). Any advise?

I would be grateful to know what the official and correct situation on this was? (dealing with Merseyrail staff can be difficult at the most of times and I don't think they'd be able to cope with with a stranded passenger - I could easily see them not helping and I'd be sending a taxi receipt into Customer Relations.) Equelly, I don't want to be getting forced to buy a brand new walk up fare or being issued with a Plenty Fare upon boarding London Midland or Southern incorrectly.

If condition B does apply then would I be correct in assuming that it is counted as 1 journey. Therefore, provided I allow the minimum of 7 minutes connection time at Liverpool South Parkway, my ticket would be valid for the entire journey and I would be allowed to travel on the next London Midland (and connecting Southern) service delay into Liverpool South Parkway/ or be provided with a taxi to my final destination if I missed the last Merseyrail train.

Thanks so much for your help people! Hoping this will be very straight forward!

 

[Merseysider]

It doesn't matter what amount you pay for each individual ticket, be that £0 for your concessionary pass or £20 for an orange coloured ticket. As long as you hold a combination of tickets valid for your whole journey, and allow the minimum connection time at each interchange station, you will be covered in the event of delay.

If a delay to a service means you miss your Advance booked service, you are entitled to catch the next train by the same operator.

If a delay to a service means you will miss your last train home, you can either request to the guard that the connection be held (more likely if less than 15 mins) or approach a member of staff and request assistance; either way no Train Operating Company is likely to leave a passenger stranded overnight as a result of a delayed service.

They may arrange a taxi, refund a bus fare or sort you out a hotel.

 

[gray1404]

Thanks that puts my mind at ease. Just hope it is totally correct and the staff understand the rights and rules for the passenger (me).

 

[Merseysider]

Thanks that puts my mind at ease. Just hope it is totally correct and the staff understand the rights and rules for the passenger (me).

I've copied an extract from the NRCoC below:

If disruption caused by circumstances within the control of a Train Company or a Rail Service Company leaves you stranded before you have reached your destination printed on or stored on your ticket, and the Train Company whose trains you are entitled to use is unable to get you to that destination by other means, any Train Company which is in a position to help will, if it reasonably can, either arrange to get you to that destination, or provide overnight accommodation for you.

The bit I've emboldened is the important part. Even though your concessionary pass doesn't have a printed destination on it, as a very minimum they'll have to get you back to Merseyside if one of your tickets is to or from Liverpool South Parkway. Whether they would be responsible for getting you back to Formby is questionable but in reality they are highly unlikely to leave you to fend for yourself.

 

[gray1404]

I wonder if it might be worth my writing to the TOCs concerned (Merseyrail, Southern and London Midland) for advise on this - i.e. the questionable bit as to if they would get me back to Formby or not. Hopefully they are all singing from the same hymn sheet!

 

[Merseysider]

I wonder if it might be worth my writing to the TOCs concerned (Merseyrail, Southern and London Midland) for advise on this - i.e. the questionable bit as to if they would get me back to Formby or not. Hopefully they are all singing from the same hymn sheet!

Depending on the time between you emailing them, them emailing you back and you making the journey, it may or may not be worth it. It's your call. At the end of the day, I doubt anything will go so severely wrong that you end up stranded and having to rely on a taxi or alternative forms of transport. If you have to pay out anything extra due to you missing the last train, and "the railway" is responsible for delaying you, I will fully support you in your endeavors to recoup any costs paid.

 

[gray1404]

Thanks Jake! Your a star!

 

[Merseysider]

Thanks Jake! Your a star!

Well someone has to stand up for the rights of rail users! To be quite honest though, after 21 years of using Merseyrail, I have always found their staff to be friendly and eager to help. The staff at LPY are great and will probably help you out whatever happens (there are several bus stands outside LPY) so you really have nothing to worry about. Every Merseyrail station has a help point; and ME staff are among the friendliest across the national rail network. You really have nothing to worry about!

 

[Hadders]

You could write to them and get the answer you require but on the night if you are delayed the decision as to whether or not you will get a taxi home will be made by the staff on duty at the time. The staff may have a different opinion to the person who wrote your reply, particularly if it's from a different TOC.

Sure they would be incorrect and you could remonstrate with them etc. My advice would be to ensure you have sufficient money available to get yourself home in the event of a delay and then complain to the TOC afterwards.

In reality everything will probably be fine with the trains on time, if not the staff will probably sort you out. Just be prepared for the worst case and then you're all covered.

We're always here to assist if required!

 

[gray1404]

Thanks so much, you guys are really the best!