My idea for bimode Class 707s

[SpacePhoenix]

Is there any engine that would meet the current (or soon to come in) emission regs that could be fitted under a coach of a class 707? If there is, would 1 engine be enough to power a unit slow speed say for example running over the Swanage Railway or where the traction current has been switched off?

 

[swt_passenger]

Wouldn't a more general question be 'can the Siemens Desiro City EMUs be fitted with a last mile diesel engine'?

The Desiro City brochure is here, and here's a hint, the word 'diesel' does NOT appear in it:

http://www.mobility.siemens.com/mob...s/desiro-platform/brochure-desiro-city-en.pdf

If you seriously expect that SWT inner suburban EMUs will ever run through to Swanage you'd be better off in the fantasy proposal area - if only we had one... :roll:

 

[theblackwatch]

I would have though that batteries, along the lines of the recent trial using 379013, would be more suitable for short 'off the juice' work.

 

[hwl]

The equivalent Bombardier Aventra has been hinted at times as potentially being available with DEMU / Battery Hybrid options.

 

[Deepgreen]

I notice the brochure for the 707 shows one speeding through London Bridge - off route already!

 

[jopsuk]

I notice the brochure for the 707 shows one speeding through London Bridge - off route already!

Um, nope, as the 700s (which are the 8 & 12 car Desiro City for Thameslink- the 797 is the 5 car for SWT) will of course run through London Bridge. Regardless, it's a brochure aimed at future orders so could reasonably show mockups of them running on any potentially suitable line.

 

[Class377/5]

I notice the brochure for the 707 shows one speeding through London Bridge - off route already!

What brochure is this? I've not seen a 707 one yet.

And if you want of area, try the 700 shown at Woking. (Done as Siemens superimposed a 700 on a 450 that it had a shot of).

 

[TEW]

Wouldn't a more general question be 'can the Siemens Desiro City EMUs be fitted with a last mile diesel engine'?

Isn't the more pertinent questions, why would you want to do such a thing? SWT already have stock suitable to run to Swanage, 158s and 159s. 707s are unlikely to stray near SWT unelectrified lines being inner suburban units without even toilets. Adding a diesel engine just in case the 3rd rail is turned off would be a hideous expensive, both initially and in terms of ongoing maintenance for very little benefit.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I would have though that batteries, along the lines of the recent trial using 379013, would be more suitable for short 'off the juice' work.

The equivalent Bombardier Aventra has been hinted at times as potentially being available with DEMU / Battery Hybrid options.

It was established in another thread that batteries wouldn't work/isn't viable when the recharging source is 3rd rail.

Isn't the more pertinent questions, why would you want to do such a thing? SWT already have stock suitable to run to Swanage, 158s and 159s. 707s are unlikely to stray near SWT unelectrified lines being inner suburban units without even toilets. Adding a diesel engine just in case the 3rd rail is turned off would be a hideous expensive, both initially and in terms of ongoing maintenance for very little benefit.

Could a 158/159 keep up with pathing/speeds/performance of a 444/450 to allow in the summer time a 158/159 to run once an hour from Waterloo-Swanage (using the current path for the trains that terminate at Poole)?

 

[TEW]

SWT have applied for access rights for a Summer Saturdays Waterloo-Wareham and return service, and a Wareham-Bournemouth return, operated by a 159, from December 2015.

 

[swt_passenger]

Isn't the more pertinent questions, why would you want to do such a thing?

I agree entirely. That's what I was getting at in the part of my post after the link.

Ideas such as replacing an existing well used Poole service with a 158/9, that are currently operated by 450s and 444s often running in multiple, is equally weird.

At the end of the day, the Swanage Railway are on record as not wanting the TOC to run regular through services on their branch line. The odd out and back 'excursion' on summer Saturdays to deliver people to the railway is probably all they'll ever support.

 

[Deepgreen]

Um, nope, as the 700s (which are the 8 & 12 car Desiro City for Thameslink- the 797 is the 5 car for SWT) will of course run through London Bridge. Regardless, it's a brochure aimed at future orders so could reasonably show mockups of them running on any potentially suitable line.

I had thought that the 707s were to be the only Desiro "City" class, and the 700s were a different type/name. I wasn't aware of a third class - the 797s mentioned here - what will they be? In any case my "off route" comment was only tongue-in-cheek.

 

[MCR247]

700s and 707s are both from the 'Desiro City' design. I assume 797 is a typo for 707 since the 9 key is next to the 0 key

 

[al.currie93]

I had thought that the 707s were to be the only Desiro "City" class, and the 700s were a different type/name. I wasn't aware of a third class - the 797s mentioned here - what will they be? In any case my "off route" comment was only tongue-in-cheek.

I think "797" was a typo - "0" being next to "9" on the keyboard

Do correct me if I'm wrong!

EDIT: Beaten to it :P

 

[swt_passenger]

700s and 707s are both from the 'Desiro City' design.

Definitely, as seen by quoting from the Siemens news release about the 100 mph trials:

The first completed Class 700 Desiro City train, designed and built by Siemens for Thameslink, has comfortably reached 100mph in a speed test at the company’s dedicated test track at Wegberg-Wildenrath, Germany.

(photo caption)
Siemens Class 700 Desiro City train, designed and built for Thameslink.

http://www.siemens.co.uk/en/news_pr...s-class-700-reaches-100mph-during-testing.htm

 

[jopsuk]

797 is a typo...

 

[Juniper Driver]

I would have though that batteries, along the lines of the recent trial using 379013, would be more suitable for short 'off the juice' work.

This is not a new thing though.I was trained on slammers that could work off of batteries,twenty five plus years ago.

 

[apk55]

Some of the diesel engine modules proposed for the D78 stock conversion would be ideal for this application. Self contained, light weight and could easily be slung under a trailer car

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I agree entirely. That's what I was getting at in the part of my post after the link.

Ideas such as replacing an existing well used Poole service with a 158/9, that are currently operated by 450s and 444s often running in multiple, is equally weird.

At the end of the day, the Swanage Railway are on record as not wanting the TOC to run regular through services on their branch line. The odd out and back 'excursion' on summer Saturdays to deliver people to the railway is probably all they'll ever support.

I doubt that Swanage town council would say no if they could get the odd train from London in the Spring and Autumn

I had thought that the 707s were to be the only Desiro "City" class, and the 700s were a different type/name. I wasn't aware of a third class - the 797s mentioned here - what will they be? In any case my "off route" comment was only tongue-in-cheek.

afaik 700s are the AC version of the Cities and 707 are the DC version. I don't recall seeing any images of the planned interior of the 707s so can't say if the interior layout of the two classes will be the same

 

[WestCountry]

afaik 700s are the AC version of the Cities and 707 are the DC version.

700s are dual-voltage, for Thameslink services. They'll run to Brighton and a range of other third-rail routes south of the river.

 

[TEW]

afaik 700s are the AC version of the Cities and 707 are the DC version. I don't recall seeing any images of the planned interior of the 707s so can't say if the interior layout of the two classes will be the same

They're going to be inner suburban units with no toilets or First Class, I'd expect something similar to the SWT 455s, as they'll be working very similar kinds of duties. TBH the interior of the 700s and 455s doesn't appear to be much different to me, apart from the obvious age difference and extras such as First Class and toilets on 700s.

 

[Class377/5]

I doubt that Swanage town council would say no if they could get the odd train from London in the Spring and Autumn

afaik 700s are the AC version of the Cities and 707 are the DC version. I don't recall seeing any images of the planned interior of the 707s so can't say if the interior layout of the two classes will be the same

Class 707 won't have toilets unlike the 700s, but other than that they should be fairly the same.

Aren't the 707 having a pan, like the387/2s, as that's what was in the ITT?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Class 707 won't have toilets unlike the 700s, but other than that they should be fairly the same.

Aren't the 707 having a pan, like the387/2s, as that's what was in the ITT?

Even if they don't have pans fitted i'd expect that all the internal wiring will be in place to allow for future running on overhead.

It wouldn't surprise me to see SWT if they like the Cities order more to slowly replace all their 455s and 456s.

 

[D365]

Even if they don't have pans fitted i'd expect that all the internal wiring will be in place to allow for future running on overhead.

It wouldn't surprise me to see SWT if they like the Cities order more to slowly replace all their 455s and 456s.

Bearing in mind that numerous routes are set to be taken over by Crossrail 2 in the not-too-distant future.

Just bolt on a pan, double up the 707s and you've got the rolling stock sorted. Far less hassle than Thameslink

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Bearing in mind that numerous routes are set to be taken over by Crossrail 2 in the not-too-distant future.

Just bolt on a pan, double up the 707s and you've got the rolling stock sorted. Far less hassle than Thameslink

By the time Crossrail comes online won't the 455s and 456s have reach by then the end of their life and be life expired/knackered anyway?

 

[jopsuk]

I think that's the idea. Crossrail 2 will take over the SWML "metro" routes that the 455/456 fleet operate, whilst the 707 fleet is for the Windsor-side metro (the 458/5 project is actually, despite where they're being used at the moment, for Reading services!). Crossrail 2 will get it's own new fleet.

 

[swt_passenger]

By the time Crossrail comes online won't the 455s and 456s have reach by then the end of their life and be life expired/knackered anyway?

Exactly - which is why SWT don't need to deal with replacement of the 455/456 fleet at all, it will be an issue for TfL - just like Crossrail 1 is conveniently replacing a large chunk of older stock out of Liverpool St, removing a similar issue for AGA.

Please try and keep up...

 

[TEW]

And the current retractioning programme for the 455s should see them through to replacement by Crossrail 2 too. The current overhaul programme at Bournemouth brings full PRM-TSI compliance too, and the 456s become fully compliant with the current refurbishment at Wolverton.

 

[RobShipway]

Exactly - which is why SWT don't need to deal with replacement of the 455/456 fleet at all, it will be an issue for TfL - just like Crossrail 1 is conveniently replacing a large chunk of older stock out of Liverpool St, removing a similar issue for AGA.

Please try and keep up...

Also, don't forget that some of the Crossrail services will replace existing FGW services between, Reading and London Paddington so there will not be so many Class 165/166 trains to replace, which would mean that that the number of Class 365 needed to replace the 165/166 would be only about 25 - 30 units if you believe that myth.

If on the other hand you believe the myth that the Class 387/1's are moving to the GWML once electrification is complete, then there is the correct number of unit required with the 65 Crossrail class 345 units that are going to be built.

 

[D365]

Also, don't forget that some of the Crossrail services will replace existing FGW services between, Reading and London Paddington so there will not be so many Class 165/166 trains to replace, which would mean that that the number of Class 365 needed to replace the 165/166 would be only about 25 - 30 units if you believe that myth.

Only 25-30? There's only 40 365s in all, we'll need to keep at least half for our GN peaks!

If on the other hand you believe the myth that the Class 387/1's are moving to the GWML once electrification is complete, then there is the correct number of unit required with the 65 Crossrail class 345 units that are going to be built.

GW suburban MUs are desired to be 110mph, there's 29 387/1s under construction... But this isn't the place to ponder cascades, unless it ties in to SWT future.