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Notice of Intention to Prosecute

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najaB

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the letter says
i refer to the above reference and your recent letter.
having considered the points you have raised i'm writing to inform you this department will be going forward with the case. A summons to attend magistrates court will be sent to you in due course.

should you require any further information then please do not hesitate to contact me.
I preface my post by saying that I'm not a lawyer, and you should probably ignore everything I say and take advice from a solicitor (if you have one) or the CAB.

As I see it, there's little you can do now until you receive the summons. When you receive it, if they have dropped the charge that you gave a false address then your best bet is to plead guilty as the other charge 'Entering a train for the purpose of travelling without a ticket entitling travel' is a non-recordable offence so you would just receive a fine, and that fine will be lower if you plead guilty.

On the other hand, if they are still claiming that you gave a false address - assuming that you didn't actually give a false address - plead not-guilty and have your day in court as a conviction would result in a criminal record.
 
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Ashlondon

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there was some issues with my address the inspector couldn't find it on the spot but later he got it right from my ID.
 

Ashlondon

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yh same address
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
ya my first attempt the wrong house no was 85 and postcode was DN
but it was supposed to be 86 and postcode DP.
what he got right from my ID and my verbal statement at the second attempt.

As I was so scared and nervous about everything. I wanted to pay him in the for the ticket in the first attempt, but he just took the details and said everything was ok. he said the rail company will send me a letter. nothing to worry about. then second attempt he asked me that "you don't have money to pay for the ticket right" I replied NO. I just didn't know why I acted so weird. I don't what's gonna happen now. what shall i say in the court...I'm lost...
 

najaB

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I don't what's gonna happen now. what shall i say in the court...I'm lost...
As I said above, if it gets as far as court, you should take advice from a solicitor or the CAB beforehand. I don't advise going to court without first taking better advice than an Internet forum.
 

Ashlondon

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i am contacting with passenger focus. They said they will help me regarding this. And Tommorrow I'm going to CAB to get more help and advice on it. Any suggestions on this regards.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
CAB and Solicitors both are hopeless...Any ideas how to offer an out of court sttlement..
 

221129

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i am contacting with passenger focus. They said they will help me regarding this. And Tommorrow I'm going to CAB to get more help and advice on it. Any suggestions on this regards.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
CAB and Solicitors both are hopeless...Any ideas how to offer an out of court sttlement..

I fail to see what Passenger Focus are supposed to be able to do about this?
 

bb21

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I fail to see what Passenger Focus are supposed to be able to do about this?

The role of Passenger Focus in such cases is to mediate between the passenger and the train company. They don't have any regulatory powers however.

I think it is a good thing that Passenger Focus are involved, as the OP is clearly a little unsure of his best options. They must have seen something in the OP's case to decide to intervene. They may be able to negotiate a settlement, if needed be, for the OP, or even persuade them to drop the case altogether, although as always there is no guarantee. I think this is an avenue worth exploring.

CAB are not specialists in railway matters so may not always know what to do. Solicitors can also be a bit hit and miss, and are not always necessary depending on the legislation the OP is charged under. If under the Byelaws it is not the end of the world even if convicted.
 

DaveNewcastle

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You have asked me to give you an opinion, though there is not much that I can add to what has already been said.

I do agree that the C.A.B. have an unfortunate tendency to misunderstand railway offences, and they can give completely wrong advice (based either on the wrong assumption that it will be a Police matter, or the wrong assumption that it is a civil claim). But in other cases, they have had success in negotiating a settlement with a train operator on behalf of a passenger.

I also agree that Passenger Focus have a tendency to refer passengers back to the Train Company to attempt to resolve any disputes themselves, but Passenger Focus will sometimes intervene on behalf of a passenger.

You should certainly attempt to reach an agreement with the Company to settle again. But if that fails, then you will have some options available to you:-

1. Admit guilt to both offences (i.e. to entering a train without a valid ticket and giving a false n & a). I expect that you don't want to choose this option!

2. Instruct a solicitor to act for you, a local law firm specialising in small-scale Criminal Defence work will be able to help. This will cost an amount in 3 digits - possibly more if you reach options 3.a or 4.b (below).

3. Admit to the first offence (entering a train without a valid ticket) but not to the second offence (giving a false N&A). This will require some evidence to show the information you had shown the inspector. You will be taking a gamble that the Company will accept this and avoid the time and expense of a second hearing with witnesses to dispute the evidence in open court.
You will be making this admission and refusal in writing.
3.a. If the gamble suceeds, then you will attend the Court just to confirm your name and your plea - there will be no difficult questionning. The Sentence will be a modest fine plus costs, which will not appear on a Criminal record check.
3.b. If the gamble fails, the Court will schedule another hearing at a later date - that will be more difficult but we can go into details about how to manage that nearer the time. The costs will be higher.

4. Deny both charges against you. This is most likely to lead to a second hearing, by which time the costs will be higher. At that hearing, the evidence against you is read out (perhaps by one of the Inspectors who spoke with you and took notes of your explanations and the difficulties with confirming your address) and where you or your representative can cross-examine that witness to expose any fault with their evidence.
4.a. I would not recommend this choice if there is a probability that the evidence of the Inspector will give the impression that you had given a false name and address. It is generally assumed that people who are unable to give the correct address immediately are attempting to mislead.
4.b. If the explanation of the difficulty with the address can be shown to be a simple error on the Inspector's part, then it will be worth pursuing. You haven't explained to my satisfaction that this is what happened - only you will know that.

If you choose the options 3.b or 4, then you will either have to represent yourself in open Court or use the sevices of a solicitor.
If you represent yourself, then you will be standing next to a professional Prosecutor who knows that the way to succeed with a Prosecution is to be sure of the Law, to be sure that the Evidence is consistent with the Offence that is written in Law, and who is familiar with the procedures in the Courts. You may win sympathy from the Magistrates but that sympathy doesn't affect how they must determine the outcome.
If you use the services of a local Criminal Defence solicitor, then the prospects of a defence based on strict legal and evidential grounds are going to be better.

One final suggestion to consider: If you are going to attempt to reach a settlement with the Company again, you could give them an indication of how you are likely to respond if they refuse. If you make it clear that you are willing to let them dispose of the matter by the payment of an 'administrative settlement', and that if they refuse, then you will choose option 3, then you will have given them a choice - a choice where they face the time and expense of providing evidence in a second Court hearing to argue about your address, or accepting a settlement. This negotiated gamble is something that even the CAB should be able to do for you!

I hope this helps for now.
 
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Ashlondon

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-yh this morning received an email from Passenger Focus that they're transferring this case to their sister company London Travelwatch.
-At the evening London Travelwatch replied me they don't deal with the prosecution cases. So those are also fail.
-CAB said there's nothing they can do at this moment. i have to wait until the summon come. they will help me with to fill up means form. they advised that i can try to make a settlement with the company.
-Went to the solicitor this morning they said this gone too far to settle out of court. as train company really wanted to go to court with this. they said i might try to persuade them to settle it out of court.

All i want to do now is send them a settlement offer. or if i must have to go to court how to get rid off criminal record.

How shall i make a settlement offer somebody please help me write a settlement letter regarding my situation please. shall i write an email/letter saying how much sorry i am about this whole matter and how much affect it might have in career as i'm due to finiish
my graduation in couple of months. i would love to make an offer £400 or above. somebody please help me regarding this how shall i write to them...Thanks a lot to all the forum members . I really appreciate it. You guys are wonderful. there's still humanity exist in this world....salute
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing to you to explain a series of events which happened on 6th January. I accept the liability for what happened on that day. I panicked a lot and messed up everything on that day. I didn't know how to cooperate with that situation. That officer was keep saying me to keep calm and not to worry. But I just kept panicking and messed up everything. I left the station, realising that what I had done was stupid, but unsure of what to do.

I cannot believe how stupid I have been, and I feel an inexpressible burden of regret for my actions and the harm they may have caused to everyone involved in this situation, and I would particularly like to extend an apology to the station staff involved. I realise that fare evasion costs the industry 400 million pounds a year, and I understand the need for a Penalty Fare system. Although I never intended to evade my fare, or to give false details, I can solemnly swear that I have learnt my lesson, and will make sure nothing of this nature ever happens again.

I realise that if GTR choose to bring this before court I will have to accept that decision, but if you are willing to settle out of court I would be willing to pay my full penalty fare and offer compensation of £400 pounds to cover all of your costs to this date. I have enclosed cheque as a token of my sincerity. I would be extremely grateful if GTR were willing to consider this as a criminal conviction would ruin my future career as an IT specialist.I have been studying very hard for last four years to become an IT specialist. This the dream of my life . I'm about to submit my project and finish my graduation in two months of time. a criminal conviction would mean I would very likely to get a job in UK or international countries like United States,Australia,Canada . I will have to regret my whole life for my silly mistake, I would never be able to forgive myself.
I realise that I have made a grave mistake and now I must leave the issue in your hands.
I apologise again for my stupidity and ask that you consider my plea.

Thank You.


this is a draft offer letter to GTR ...Please any suggestions or feedback on this letter would be wonderful..
 

furlong

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Don't mention a specific amount or send a cheque - if your guess of £400 is significantly in excess of their actual costs, as well as costing you more than necessary, it might look like a bribe!
 
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najaB

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Please any suggestions or feedback on this letter would be wonderful..
At risk of sounding like a broken record, if GTR are determined to take the matter to court, then my advice is to wait until you get the summons letter. It is probable that your case has been put in a pile of cases that are all going to be sent across to the court as a bundle and they aren't likely to go searching through them to remove yours.

When you get the summons, if the only charge is of "Entering a train for the purpose of travelling on the railway without a ticket entitling you to travel." then plead guilty as this charge will not leave you with a criminal record. By pleading guilty you will reduce the amount of any fine that's imposed. There is no point in pleading not guilty as you have almost zero chance of a successful defence.

If they are still pursuing the charge that you gave a false name and address, then go back to the CAB and get them to double-check your letter seeking a settlement and send it in.

To be honest, if your description of events is correct - that the house number was out by one and the postcode incode was DN rather than DP - I can see how someone might think you were trying it on. How long have you lived at that address?
 

Ashlondon

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It was 2/3 months at that time...they asked me what was nearby the shop.. i replied a graveyard a nail shop etc what was true...can i still send a settlement letter after getting the summons..what woulld be the best way send it now or send it after getting summon. cause i have seen some forum guys send an apologetic letter with certain amount of checks they were successfull. I asked the solicitor and CAB and they said there's no bribery in asking a settlement. i have a read one forum that guy had similar situation and he wrote apologetic letter with £20 for penalty fare and £300 compensation checque and he was succesful. He had same wrong address and unpaid ticket. i really want to send a settlement letter .if i have to plead guilty later on than why not try before it...please suggest me ...at this moment i'm out of nowhere...
 

najaB

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It was 2/3 months at that time...they asked me what was nearby the shop.. i replied a graveyard a nail shop etc what was true.
If it had only been a couple of months, then I can understand that you might get the details wrong. This is an important point to include in any letter that you write.
..can i still send a settlement letter after getting the summons..what woulld be the best way send it now or send it after getting summon.
It is possible to settle right up until the day that the case goes to court, there have been cases where an agreement was reached minutes before the case was called. DaveNewcastle is a the forum's resident legal expert, but based on what I've read it's probably best to wait until you get the summons for a couple of reasons - firstly you don't know what the charges are, it's possible they've dropped the charge of giving a false name/address; and secondly I believe that they send cases to the court in batches, so even if you were to write in and propose a settlement, you would probably still receive the summons.
 

cjmillsnun

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Wait for the summons...

Here is the kind of letter I would write (based on DaveNewcastle's summarisation - NB if the false name and address bit isn't in the summons then do not use the last paragraph)

Dear Sirs,

I write apologising for my actions on 6 January. I admit to entering your train without possessing a valid ticket, and would like to try, one more time to settle the matter amicably.

I am willing for you to dispose of the matter by means of an administrative settlement in the form of the anytime fare for my journey, plus reasonable costs incurred in pursuing your case against me.

Should you decide not to agree to this, and to continue the court action, I would intend to plead not guilty to the offence of supplying an incorrect name and address as I believe that there was a misunderstanding when the details were initially taken by your Revenue Protection Inspector.

Yours faithfully
 

DaveNewcastle

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Please remember, Ashlondon, that the main deciding factor for the Company's Prosecutor will not be the content of your letter, and will not be the amount of money you want to offer. The main deciding factor will be the facts of the incident as they are recorded in the Inspector's notebook.

It seems to me that the Prosecutor has already decided that it looks as if you gave a false address. I know you have referred to this on here as 'an issue with the address', but that is not what the Prosecutor will have decided.

I don't know what the outcome will be, but you must be prepared to be judged on the facts of the incident, and not on how you attempt to describe them afterwards - and these facts appear to include giving a false address.

That is why I wrote at length about the possible outcomes. You know what really happened, and so does the Inspector. You should be able to work out the outcome from the facts.

Hope this helps.
 

Ashlondon

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Thanks a lot i just received a call from GTR , they accepted my offer. There will be no more further action this case...i'm so grateful to all of you guys...Specially Najab, DaveNewcastle, bb21...you guys were wonderful...Thanks a million...i will always remember you guys..Salute!!!!!
 

najaB

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That is good to hear. Now remember in future that 'London Terminals' means the first terminal you get to. :)
 

bb21

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Thanks for keeping us informed. That is very good news, and one I think in this specific case a fair one.

Stay safe and if you have any travel enquiries in the future, please remember us. :)
 

MikeWh

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'London Terminals' means the first terminal you get to. :)

Oh dear!

Please tell me how anyone gets to Waterloo after Vauxhall, Waterloo East, Charing Cross and Cannon Street after London Bridge, City Thameslink after Blackfriars?
 

najaB

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Oh dear!

Please tell me how anyone gets to Waterloo after Vauxhall, Waterloo East, Charing Cross and Cannon Street after London Bridge, City Thameslink after Blackfriars?
Oh well, it is RailForums: last refuge of the pedant. And since I've mentioned pedantry - I know London Bridge, Vaxhall, etc. are part of the 'London Terminals' group, but they're not terminal stations! :D
 

Chris999999

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Interesting. So is Waterloo a terminal station or not? I travel from Basingstoke and trains terminate at Waterloo. If I ask for a ticket to Charing Cross I am sold the same ticket as that to Waterloo. I then travel from Waterloo East to Charing Cross and the ticket is accepted.

So presumably Waterloo is not a London Terminal as I can travel to another London Terminal.
 

MikeWh

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Oh well, it is RailForums: last refuge of the pedant. And since I've mentioned pedantry - I know London Bridge, Vaxhall, etc. are part of the 'London Terminals' group, but they're not terminal stations! :D

I'd like to see an arrival at platforms 10-15 of London Bridge go any further! And Waterloo (main station) clearly IS a terminal, but you can go to quite a few other places afterwards on the same ticket, which is why the gates won't swallow them.
 

najaB

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I'd like to see an arrival at platforms 10-15 of London Bridge go any further! And Waterloo (main station) clearly IS a terminal, but you can go to quite a few other places afterwards on the same ticket, which is why the gates won't swallow them.
There's no restriction on terminating platforms in through stations - London Bridge is no different to Edinburgh Waverley in that regards: most of the platforms are dead-end, but I wouldn't describe it as a terminal station.
 

MikeWh

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There's no restriction on terminating platforms in through stations - London Bridge is no different to Edinburgh Waverley in that regards: most of the platforms are dead-end, but I wouldn't describe it as a terminal station.

We'll agree to disagree on that one. For me, if there are buffer stops and a concourse then it's a terminating station. I'd never dream of calling Man Pic anything other than a terminus.
 
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