I am always fascinated by space, the universe and all the planets such as how big is the universe, how long has it existed for and why does it exist? My answer to the title of this topic is YES there is life out there how can we be the only ones? In a place so vast and big (or is it smaller than a pin head) there has to be more than ONE of everything? Wonder what others think!
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Is there life out there?
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Peter Mugridge
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I agree there has to be life out there. The big question should be whether or not there is other intelligent life out there. Statistically there should be, but until at least one example is found and confirmed it is unfortunately impossible to answer the question.
If space is truly infinite then surely it is absolutely true that another planet exists with equivalent life on it.
Unfortunately, man's ideas of his own importance (as a species) frequently get in the way of such a basic reasoning like that. Long-standing religeous teaching may also have a bearing on acceptance of the 'infinite' nature of space.
Unfortunately, man's ideas of his own importance (as a species) frequently get in the way of such a basic reasoning like that. Long-standing religeous teaching may also have a bearing on acceptance of the 'infinite' nature of space.
Tetchytyke
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The odds are infinitesimally small.
The universe is infinite though, so there will be. Somewhere
The universe is infinite though, so there will be. Somewhere
Johnuk123
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I would imagine there are many billions of planets with life on them of all sorts and at all stages, it would be ridiculous to think otherwise.
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Bevan Price
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Our universe is very big, and contains megamillions of stars, some of which will have planets. Although the probabilty of live developing on any individual planet is very low, with such huge numbers of stars & planets, it is probable that life exists (or has existed) on a lot of planets.
But:
1. The types of life may not resemble anything that has ever existed on earth.
2. In the near future, the chances of humans ever meeting these other forms of life is exceedingly low, if only because of the time taken to travel to other star systems.
However, if humans have not self-destructed in the next 4,000,000,000 years or so, they will have to hope that they have found a means to travel to other star systems, before they are all swallowed / fried by our ageing, dying sun.........
And of course, there are quite probably other universes, forever beyond the range of our detection, that started with their own "big bangs" a long way from our universe. We will never be able to know what forms of life may exist in these very distant neighbours.
(I distinguish these other / external universes from the "alternative" universes sharing "our space" in different dimensions, as postulated by some theorists. And don't ask me to explain any more - far too complicated for me..)
But:
1. The types of life may not resemble anything that has ever existed on earth.
2. In the near future, the chances of humans ever meeting these other forms of life is exceedingly low, if only because of the time taken to travel to other star systems.
However, if humans have not self-destructed in the next 4,000,000,000 years or so, they will have to hope that they have found a means to travel to other star systems, before they are all swallowed / fried by our ageing, dying sun.........
And of course, there are quite probably other universes, forever beyond the range of our detection, that started with their own "big bangs" a long way from our universe. We will never be able to know what forms of life may exist in these very distant neighbours.
(I distinguish these other / external universes from the "alternative" universes sharing "our space" in different dimensions, as postulated by some theorists. And don't ask me to explain any more - far too complicated for me..)
Trog
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I am not sure my self some of the things needed to make the earth a suitable home for life are apparently astronomically, very unlikely indeed. Also the combination of two separate cells into one which 'invented' the basic cell structure used on earth by all but the simplest life forms, seems to have only happened once. So is presumably also a very unlikely thing to happen.
That said there are a lot of stars out there, so if life was just rather unlikely that would give a thin spread of life bearing planets through out the universe, which would add up to a vast total. Or is life on earth be so much of a freak that it has only happened once.
I feel that it is one end of the spectrum or the other, one or many, not something that is just a bit uncommon.
That said there are a lot of stars out there, so if life was just rather unlikely that would give a thin spread of life bearing planets through out the universe, which would add up to a vast total. Or is life on earth be so much of a freak that it has only happened once.
I feel that it is one end of the spectrum or the other, one or many, not something that is just a bit uncommon.
bb21
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Is the universe truly infinite, or have we just not found any boundary yet?
Bevan Price
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We don't know. We cannot see any further than the distance that light has travelled since our universe was formed (and adjusted to allow for the time earth has existed).
In theory, since matter cannot travel faster than the speed of light, the current size of our universe cannot exceed the product of (time since big bang) X (speed of light) - but it can expand as it gets older. I think that some theorists have proposed that there is some form of "closed" universe - no idea if they are right or wrong. .
Question - why do some people think there is only one universe ? Just because we cannot see something does not mean it does not exist.
In times past, people thought the earth was the centre of everything; then the solar system, and then our galaxy was thought to be the centre of everything. As knowledge increased, we found that we (humans & earth) were not the centre of all existence.
Yes, there has been/is/will be life out there. Intelligent life and lifeforms up to and beyond the complexity and intelligence of humans will also be out there but probably fewer and further between than life in its simplest biological sense.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
It is at times such as this that I usually cast my mind back to the statement supposedly made by "Bones" McCoy to Captain James Kirk of the USS Enterprise in the "Startrek" television series..."It's life, Jim, but not as we know it"....but was featured in the words of the "Star Trekkin" parody song.
'Klingons on the starboard bow' always seemed to be a space ailment to be endured by alien life.
EssexGonzo
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If there is a boundary, what would be beyond it?
I reckon there has to be life out there somewhere given the vastness we're thus far aware of. The building blocks of life must exist elsewhere albeit they are very likely to have evolved differently in adaptation to their environment.
But, more importantly, the question for the Creationists is whether or not the god that created life on Earth is the same or different to the one that may have created life elsewhere? And if the same, why did he/she want to keep the lifeforms separate? :roll:
Live long and prosper.
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
If there is a boundary, what would be beyond it?
There wouldn't be a boundary. If space if finite (possible, but we don't yet know either way), it would be because it's curved.
Think of flying in a plane around the Earth - if the plane had an unlimited supply of fuel, you could fly forever without ever getting to a boundary, even though the total surface area of the Earth is finite - and that's because the surface of the Earth is curved, not flat.
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gordonthemoron
Established Member
is there intelligent life on earth? 
eastwestdivide
Established Member
is there intelligent life on earth?
Search for the Galaxy Song (Monty Python).
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
Hmmm.
TheGalaxySong said:
I guess someone on Earth wrote those lyrics, the lyrics require someone intelligent to write them, and that is therefore the proof that there is intelligent life on Earth.
QED.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
Even if there was a boundary, there would have to be something beyond it. More space, in other words. therefore even if the universe itself has a boundary, space cannot and must therefore be infinite..... and my brain hurts.
GrimsbyPacer
Established Member
My favourite song!
As a Trekker I can tell you that it's Spock that said "It's life Jim, but not as we know it" Bones says "It's worse than that he's dead Jim!" in the song.
Many assume that life on other planets can't be like life on Earth as that would be too great of a coincidence. However Convergent Evolution shows that unrelated life can develop looks and functions of other life forms. Rhinos are like Triceratops, Giraffes are like Brachiosaurus, Dolphins are like Ichiosaurs, Bats are like Pterosaurs.
All of these are not decendents of the other yet they have the same traits.
Is it logical to assume that alien life may have developed flight, sight, reproduction, breathing, eating, skin, blood and bones in a similar way to Earth life just under different chemical and planetary conditions?
The recent discovery of many inhabitable exoplanets where liquid water can exist, the long known knowledge that amino acids which make up proteins, a building block of life are found on comets, the increasingly accepted theory that Earth life spread from Mars as conditions there were more suitable than Earth's at the time, recent space observations hint that more water exists on Ceres and Ganymede than Earth.
All this suggests to me that life likely is more common than we would normally consider. As life has ample chance of forming, spreading and has plenty of water.
Does life exist elsewhere in the Solar System hasn't been answered yet and there's still the issue of hypersonic saucer craft being chased by jets on radar which turn at right angles and shoot off very fast. This is documented in several countries. Are these flying saucers aliens or Earthlings???
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Even if there was a boundary, there would have to be something beyond it. More space, in other words. therefore even if the universe itself has a boundary, space cannot and must therefore be infinite..... and my brain hurts.
Space is not simply nothing.
It's space-time and requires energy and force carriers to function.
Dark Energy is said to be expanding space.
The universe also has 10 or 11 dimensions to explain why gravity is such a weak force compared to Magnetism.
I remember one scientist proposed that the whole universe is one of many quantom fluxes on a big wave structure as this explains the non-sphere shape of the universe.
I have serious doubts about the Big Bang theory nowadays as it doesn't seam possible. If all matter in the universe was in one spot a black hole of epic proportions should of formed instead of what we have. I am proposing my Vacuum Bag theory where matter/antimatter/darkmatter etc were hit by the flux described above as it expanded at light speed. The matter then was sucked into the universe at a fast rate preventing blackhole creation.
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I do love it when scientists put on their serious face and start talking jibberish. Our knowledge of the universe is pathetically small, and most of what is used to answer these questions is guesswork - it is like finding one piece of a 10,000 piece jigsaw and trying to describe the whole picture. The joke is that they do it all so seriously (except the really good ones, who see the joke).
As for the original question, even statistics cannot help; in an infinite number of possibilities it is just as likely that life is a singularity as it is that it exists elsewhere.
As for the original question, even statistics cannot help; in an infinite number of possibilities it is just as likely that life is a singularity as it is that it exists elsewhere.
GrimsbyPacer
Established Member
Intelligent aliens will be unlikely warmongers. They will be very advanced and have little reason to invade Earth.
But I'm hoping we meet Vulcans first instead of Klingons.
But I'm hoping we meet Vulcans first instead of Klingons.
Theyre already here but not in human form
PaxVobiscum
Established Member
I waited YEARS for someone to say to Spock "Keep your Vulcan hands off me!" and in one episode Scotty finally did it. I bet the scriptwriters had been trying to get that line in for a long time.
If space is finite what is outside it? Infinity is mind bending.
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Aliens who can reach Earth at this time would have to be so much more advanced than us who knows what they would do? They might think we are like bacteria.
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
If someone is an actual scientist working in the relevant field, then it's very unlikely that what they say about it would be 'jibberish' (even though it might sound like jibberish to a layman).
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It would seem extraordinarily implausible that all the physicists working in that field would have completely missed such an obvious potential problem, so I would be very confident that there is some solution to that in the detailed theory (although I don't know what that solution is).
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
I agree with that, the great thing with science is that it tends to admit there are holes in the theory even when it largely seems to add up. Makes a lot more sense than to just say "It was God". As science fills in more and more of the holes where does religion go? That is not directed at anyone in particular Dynamic Spirit just in case it looked that way because I replied to you.
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Are we alone in the universe?
The observable universe is 93 billion light years in diameter, with the universe being potentially even bigger. The observable universe alone contains approximately 10^22-10^24 stars (or, in other words, 10^16 times as many humans on earth). The universe is unimaginably large; too large for our brains to truly comprehend.
I would consequently argue that to assume that our planet is unique in hosting life, and therefore that we are unique, is extremely arrogant and highly unlikely. Whilst the prerequisites for life are not easy to come by (appropriate temperature, chemical compounds, and opportunity for the initial reactions to occur etc), and indeed we do not know exactly how these came about, I think it is highly likely that life has evolved independently elsewhere in the universe. Whilst it may not be commonplace, I suspect that there is plenty of opportunity for life to evolve on many planets. Indeed, I understand that several experiments have demonstrated various organic reactions occurring in vitro, in what could be an early understanding of abiogenesis.
I therefore do not think we are alone in the universe. But, of course this doesn't mean that an attack is imminent. There is not going to be an earth shattering kaboom. If life has evolved elsewhere, and I think it has, I suspect that most of it will be very primordial (maybe even just unicellular organisms), and planets which have the most favourable conditions could develop more complex life, such as is seen here. Multicellular intelligent organisms like ourselves will of course be much rarer.
And even if there are higher lifeforms out there, the chances of us coming into contact with them are negligible at best. Even if an advanced alien civilisation existed on a planet in the Alpha Centauri system (our nearest star aside from our sun), it's still over 4 light years away from us. The time taken to transmit and receive messages from this planet would impede attempts at conversation. Even if we were to receive a message, And actually going there isn't an option, taking tens of thousands of years for a one-way trip (with current technology).
We may still find life in the solar system, of course. Astronomers are considering looking for evidence of life (current or past) on some moons of the gas giants in our solar system, most recently in the subterranean oceans of Jupiter's moon Ganymede. Although it may seem improbable to support life out there, perhaps it has evolved independently to adapt to those conditions. Any future mission will be extremely useful, not only to confirm or deny the existence of life, but also to understand (potentially) how life evolved on earth.
It's all just conjecture, but I think that it's highly unlikely that we are unique in the universe. But I don't think we're likely to prove it, certainly not in any of our lifetimes.
The observable universe is 93 billion light years in diameter, with the universe being potentially even bigger. The observable universe alone contains approximately 10^22-10^24 stars (or, in other words, 10^16 times as many humans on earth). The universe is unimaginably large; too large for our brains to truly comprehend.
I would consequently argue that to assume that our planet is unique in hosting life, and therefore that we are unique, is extremely arrogant and highly unlikely. Whilst the prerequisites for life are not easy to come by (appropriate temperature, chemical compounds, and opportunity for the initial reactions to occur etc), and indeed we do not know exactly how these came about, I think it is highly likely that life has evolved independently elsewhere in the universe. Whilst it may not be commonplace, I suspect that there is plenty of opportunity for life to evolve on many planets. Indeed, I understand that several experiments have demonstrated various organic reactions occurring in vitro, in what could be an early understanding of abiogenesis.
I therefore do not think we are alone in the universe. But, of course this doesn't mean that an attack is imminent. There is not going to be an earth shattering kaboom. If life has evolved elsewhere, and I think it has, I suspect that most of it will be very primordial (maybe even just unicellular organisms), and planets which have the most favourable conditions could develop more complex life, such as is seen here. Multicellular intelligent organisms like ourselves will of course be much rarer.
And even if there are higher lifeforms out there, the chances of us coming into contact with them are negligible at best. Even if an advanced alien civilisation existed on a planet in the Alpha Centauri system (our nearest star aside from our sun), it's still over 4 light years away from us. The time taken to transmit and receive messages from this planet would impede attempts at conversation. Even if we were to receive a message, And actually going there isn't an option, taking tens of thousands of years for a one-way trip (with current technology).
We may still find life in the solar system, of course. Astronomers are considering looking for evidence of life (current or past) on some moons of the gas giants in our solar system, most recently in the subterranean oceans of Jupiter's moon Ganymede. Although it may seem improbable to support life out there, perhaps it has evolved independently to adapt to those conditions. Any future mission will be extremely useful, not only to confirm or deny the existence of life, but also to understand (potentially) how life evolved on earth.
It's all just conjecture, but I think that it's highly unlikely that we are unique in the universe. But I don't think we're likely to prove it, certainly not in any of our lifetimes.
PaxVobiscum
Established Member
The Big bang theory reminds me of a reverse version of the joke about the four engined jet crossing the Atlantic:
2 hours out the pilot announces that an engine has failed but they are too far out to return and passengers are not to worry as it is perfectly safe, but they will be delayed by about 30 minutes.
10 minutes later another engine fails - still safe but this time the delay is 1½ hours.
20 minutes later a third engine fails - the plane can still fly on 1 engine and has plenty of fuel for the extra 6 hours the flight will now take. At which point a gentleman (of whichever nationality the joketeller choses to stereotype) is heard to remark "I hope the 4th engine keeps running or we'll be up here all night".
The point of the story being to be careful about predicting events by extrapolating from incomplete data when not really understanding the situation at all.
2 hours out the pilot announces that an engine has failed but they are too far out to return and passengers are not to worry as it is perfectly safe, but they will be delayed by about 30 minutes.
10 minutes later another engine fails - still safe but this time the delay is 1½ hours.
20 minutes later a third engine fails - the plane can still fly on 1 engine and has plenty of fuel for the extra 6 hours the flight will now take. At which point a gentleman (of whichever nationality the joketeller choses to stereotype) is heard to remark "I hope the 4th engine keeps running or we'll be up here all night".
The point of the story being to be careful about predicting events by extrapolating from incomplete data when not really understanding the situation at all.
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