Just received a letter from the SWT Prosecution Dept.

[MassDiscussion]

It's giving me 14 days to reply, but the letter is dated 28th January! It refers to an "incident" that took place three months ago when I had a weekly ticket, but didn't have the photocard with me. No other member of rail staff has ever told me that I should have the photocard with me all the time. I have even often renewed the weekly ticket from a guard on the train with no problems at all. I was spoken to by a RPI person who then confiscated the ticket, despite it having 4 days left on it. I offered to pay a fine, but this was refused.

I'd like to point out that I've never been a fare-dodger in my life and I travel on the same train everyday.

I'd just like to know how much trouble I am in.

Thanks.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Hi and welcome

Firstly, it might take a bit of time for the letters to be written up and sent so I'm assuming you have 14 days from receipt of the letter.

Secondly, I think it is a requirement that your weekly season must be accompanied by a photocard at all times

In order to answer your question, you will need to give the following:

a) The TOC
b) details of your journey on the day in question
c) what the letter actually says.

It sounds like an offence that is serious enough to go straight to prosecution

Hopefully once you give us the details, the more knowledgeable members here can give you advice

 

[Merseysider]

Without a photocard, there is no hard & fast proof that the season ticket is yours. In addition, the back of the photocard (may be subject to some local variation) clearly states the ticket is only valid with the photocard (see attached).

I'm afraid you don't really have a defence here, so when you reply to the letter I would absolutely make sure there is nothing in it to suggest you have a bad attitude. There is a distinct possibility that you'll end up prosecuted under Byelaw 18, but as the previous poster states, more information would help us give more detailed advice.

 

[MassDiscussion]

Thank you. I just didn't like the usage of the word "incident". This is the only incident I can think of, and I wasn't aggressive in any way. The letter says that I have to reply within 14 days of the date of the letter- 28th January.

So, I guess I'm screwed then.

 

[DelayRepay]

Thank you. I just didn't like the usage of the word "incident". This is the only incident I can think of, and I wasn't aggressive in any way. The letter says that I have to reply within 14 days of the date of the letter- 28th January.

So, I guess I'm screwed then.

Are they actually saying you were aggressive? The word "incident" just means an event, or an occurence.

I would reply to the letter anyway and also try to call them. It's possible you can still find a way to resolve this without going to court.

 

[MassDiscussion]

No, it doesn't say I was aggressive, I just wasn't sure what they were implying. As I said, I offered to pay a fine there and then, but it was refused. Can something this trivial really go to court?

 

[Fare-Cop]

it is a requirement that your weekly season must be accompanied by a photocard at all times

In order to answer your question, you will need to give the following:

a) The TOC
b) details of your journey on the day in question
c) what the letter actually says.

For forum users to give any idea of how likely this is to be pursued, it would be very helpful to know the answers to Robert's questions

Some TOCs RP departments are more pro-active than others

It may also depend on what has actually been reported and whether in response to the letter you can produce the photocard that has the same number as that entered on the ticket that the inspector retained?

 

[Merseysider]

No, it doesn't say I was aggressive, I just wasn't sure what they were implying. As I said, I offered to pay a fine there and then, but it was refused. Can something this trivial really go to court?

Theoretically, yes.
There is, however, the chance that they will let you off by paying them the full fare for the journey you made (with or without an admin fee on top) and a warning to keep both halves of your season together when travelling, but I wouldn't count on it.

 

[scott118]

photo cards have an id. If the guard is using an avantix machine, i'm pretty sure the machine will ask for this number, for it to be printed on the corresponding ticket. This not only proves ownership of the said ticket, should it be lost, it also, proves that the ticket hasn't been missold. No photo id, no weekly/monthly ticket.

 

[MassDiscussion]

For forum users to give any idea of how likely this is to be pursued, it would be very helpful to know the answers to Robert's questions

Some TOCs RP departments are more pro-active than others

It may also depend on what has actually been reported and whether in response to the letter you can produce the photocard that has the same number as that entered on the ticket that the inspector retained?

Sorry. It was a SWT service. I have the photocard and the tickets have always had the same number.

 

[Fare-Cop]

Sorry. It was a SWT service. I have the photocard and the tickets have always had the same number.

I'd write to them enclosing a clear full colour copy of the photo-card, apologise for your error and give an undertaking to ensure that you always carry & present the two together in future.

 

[MassDiscussion]

Thank you for everyone's advice. I've sent them a letter, with the photocard enclosed explaining that I'm not a scummy fare dodger. Any idea what happens next?

 

[najaB]

I've sent them a letter, with the photocard enclosed explaining that I'm not a scummy fare dodger. Any idea what happens next?

I hope you didn't use those words! What happens next is that SWT's prosecutors will decide if the case is worth taking to court or not and you'll get: a) a letter saying that no further action will be taken; b) a letter saying that they will drop the matter for a sum of money; or c) a summons to appear in court.

 

[MassDiscussion]

No, not those words! Just a grovelling apology and I won't do it again. I sent the photocard because I've been too scared to buy a weekly ticket ever since! It's a lot less pressure paying for two singles a day than go through this. (Don't worry, I didn't mention this either!)

Can this really go to court though? I've never been a fare dodger in my life

 

[SJN]

We can't renew season tickets on the train without the photocard id number. This has to be typed in before the ticket will print out.

 

[ainsworth74]

Can this really go to court though? I've never been a fare dodger in my life

It most certainly can and it is a criminal offence to fail to have and then when requested fail to show a valid ticket. Failing to carry your photocard (even though you weren't aware of the requirement) means that you season was invalid and therefore you are open to facing the full brunt of prosecution options available to the TOC.

That you have previously always had a ticket stands you in good stead in trying to come to an equitable resolution. But it does not excuse your failure on this occasion I'm sorry to say.

Be under no illusion, they will take you to court unless you can come to an agreement beforehand.

 

[MassDiscussion]

We can't renew season tickets on the train without the photocard id number. This has to be typed in before the ticket will print out.

I always told the guard the ID number when I renewed it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I always told the guard the ID number when I renewed it.

I'm surprised any guard accepted that.

I also can't understand why, if you are given a photocard with the ticket, anyone would think you didn't need to carry it.

Neil

 

[DaleCooper]

I always told the guard the ID number when I renewed it.

How many digits are there in the photocard number? It seems strange not to carry the photocard but to memorise the number.

 

[MassDiscussion]

How many digits are there in the photocard number? It seems strange not to carry the photocard but to memorise the number.

I have a form of autism (Yes, I know. A "made up" problem) that means I can memorise numbers very well. Most of the time it is a blessing, on this occasion it is a curse.

 

[snail]

How many digits are there in the photocard number? It seems strange not to carry the photocard but to memorise the number.

Mine has 3 letters and 4 digits. I don't have a problem remembering it when buying a weekly season from a TVM. Using it once a week means committing the number to memory isn't that difficult.

 

[DaleCooper]

Mine has 3 letters and 4 digits. I don't have a problem remembering it when buying a weekly season from a TVM. Using it once a week means committing the number to memory isn't that difficult.

Thanks for the info, even I could remember that much, no worse than a car registration. I thought it might be one of those long numbers like on a credit card.

 

[SJN]

At my TOC, we are not allowed to take number verbally. We have to copy it off the photocard. I would be surprised if it is allowed anywhere else to be honest as it is not proper procedure.

 

[MassDiscussion]

At my TOC, we are not allowed to take number verbally. We have to copy it off the photocard. I would be surprised if it is allowed anywhere else to be honest as it is not proper procedure.

I can understand that. After all, anyone can just make up a random number on the spot. But I always told them the exact same number and they never had a problem with it.

 

[Deerfold]

Did you never read the back of the Photocard?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127245740@N06/15467376721/in/set-72157648412493271

 

[DaleCooper]

I always told the guard the ID number when I renewed it.

Are you really saying that despite travelling every day you have never been asked for your photocard? If that's the case then either that TOC doesn't require it or the guards are not doing their job. Which TOC is it?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are you really saying that despite travelling every day you have never been asked for your photocard? If that's the case then either that TOC doesn't require it or the guards are not doing their job. Which TOC is it?

Plenty of South East TOCs, particularly those with DOO, rarely have on-train checks which means most checks are by way of the barriers, so the photocard is rarely requested.

That doesn't, of course, stop it being needed, and I still can't get why anyone would think they would issue it if it were not required to be carried.

Neil

 

[DaleCooper]

Plenty of South East TOCs, particularly those with DOO, rarely have on-train checks which means most checks are by way of the barriers, so the photocard is rarely requested.

That doesn't, of course, stop it being needed, and I still can't get why anyone would think they would issue it if it were not required to be carried.

Neil

But the OP was buying weekly tickets from the guard (as stated in first post) which is when the photocard should have been requested.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But the OP was buying weekly tickets from the guard (as stated in first post) which is when the photocard should have been requested.

I agree, and if this was indeed happening as alleged a load of guards are not doing their job and should get a "please explain". A season ticket should not be sold without a photocard being shown, surely.

Neil

 

[swt_passenger]

Are you really saying that despite travelling every day you have never been asked for your photocard? If that's the case then either that TOC doesn't require it or the guards are not doing their job. Which TOC is it?

SWT - it is mentioned on the previous page of the thread.

I must be really unlucky, I've never met an SWT guard who doesn't bother checking for a photo card. (I have the same bad luck with my Network Card - it always gets checked too...)