SWT staff member in potential bother

[Flamingo]

Bloody hell, the Outrage Bus has really had an outing on this one! Don't forget, it needs to get back to the garage for a clean and service before anybody else posts something unimportant about train-staff making a gaff for everybody to get upset about...

 

[TUC]

It has to be said that some obese people make very little effort to fit neatly into a seat. The number of times I've sat next to someone on a full train who has continued to occupy three-quarters of a double seat, with their legs spread across, when there was the space to at least try and fit in more neatly.

 

[158747]

I think this is simply an attempt at adding a bit of humour to the train journey that has unfortunately backfired. Sadly in this politically correct age you not only have to be careful not to cause offence to certain groups of people but also not to cause offence to those who delight in taking offence on behalf of others.

 

[talltim]

OK, it was off-colour and misjudged, but thanks to a hack making a name for themselves, overall we all lose.

Ah, so that's why the article didn't have a writer mention, the name is still a work in progress!

 

[driver_m]

Just because you find something funny, doesn't mean everyone has to right?

Now then Mr Aggressive. You need to wind your neck in a bit. There's a big difference between getting outraged over this which is aimed at no one in particular, and the story about the dancing lad who got humiliated in a club that was all over the internet. That story showed the worst in humanity and maybe you should concentrate your anger on something like that, not some dodgy joke by a guard.

 

[Antman]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ssengers-not-to-sit-down-on-packed-train.html

Could be in a bit if trouble!

Presumably just intended as a joke although sadly there is always somebody just looking for something to be offended about nowadays.

I think a quiet word in his ear should suffice!

 

[Matt Taylor]

Interesting how so many posters are assuming it was a male guard.

It wasn't me by the way, I was on the Portsmouth direct line all day.

 

[47802]

Wow I can not believe there are 5 pages of comments on this

I am fat because I eat too much and don't get enough exercise, its the same for most fat people and as such deserve to be humiliated

We should have more of this.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Presumably just intended as a joke although sadly there is always somebody just looking for something to be offended about nowadays.

I think a quiet word in his ear should suffice!

If someone hadn't complained then how would this quiet word with him come about?

I'm 6'7" and if i sit down on my regular train then I almost take up all four seats!

 

[bramling]

There isn't really one (other than that I might move if a family of 4 boards and obviously is going to benefit more from it than me, though as ever if they tell me to move rather than asking I won't ).

The only way to do that really is to reserve the table. One way would be doing it the way Eurostar used to (may still do, it's been ages since I've booked on it other than first class once) in that (I think) you couldn't reserve a table for 4 unless you were booking for 3 or more people or there was nothing else available.

The way reservations used to work (forwards, backwards or airline) meant that reservations tended to be far more at tables even for individuals because a lot of people specified a direction of travel.

Neil

At the end of the day, it's first-come first-served. If you want a particular type of seat, you have to join the train early at its origin.

However, given that table seats are clearly more popular (it's very evident on the GN 365s now the numbers of these seats has reduced that they are *always* the first to fill), the ratio of these seats should be at least 50% if not more.

I don't see why groups should have any more 'claim' to these seats than anyone else. You don't pay more for a particular type of seat. In any case, if I hold a season ticket and happen to travel at a weekend (for work purposes) I don't see why I should change any preference I might have to suit once-in-a-while leisure users. If the provision matched what people want then there shouldn't be too much of an issue - on the class 365s this has only become an issue since the layout was (needlessly) changed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's a dying breed - I think the UK is learning that the approach used in many other European countries of having 2+2 seating with generous standing space is more sensible. LM for one have said there will be no more of it, and indeed backed that up by ordering the 172s with 2+2 rather than the 3+2 of the 150s they replaced.



While I don't think the announcement was really appropriate, I would agree that a big person (whether that happens to be because they are fat, or because they are a bodybuilder, or whatever) plonking themselves down in the middle of a 3 is not sensible. And that is very much from personal experience at 6' 4" and 18 stone. Because I'll just push the person at the end off into the aisle if I do.

Neil

I do think it's a myth that the middle seats aren't used. Certainly on the routes out of KX they may be the last to fill, but they most certainly do get used in preference to standing, so I'm not convinced that people would prefer standing accommodation. Perhaps on a short journey, but there seems to be some kind of tipping point where people would rather sit in the middle, and I'd suggest from experience that this tipping point is as little as journeys over about 10 mins.

 

[Peter Sarf]

The tipping point for me must be more than 17 minutes (East Croydon to Victoria fast). I do find myself standing near the doors rather then mid coach unless the coach is really filling up. There is not much to hold onto on the seat backs of the earlier 377s so standing away from the door area is tricky. Of course there are times when I am lucky to get on the train at all !.

I also find airline seats tricky as I have long legs for my height so will always head for a table seat although the table can make it difficult to get in or out. For standing being taller than most makes me more prone to toppling over as the train lurches. Have to say this is quite a serious problem for me on buses as most buses seem to have a stop go pedal and no gentle acceleration/braking alternative !.

We do not know much about the reported incident so will have to wait and see. In the meantime I wonder if tall people should be catered for better AND also fatter people because the average size for both has increased over the years. That is why 3+2 seating is hopeless - its outdated.

 

[D841 Roebuck]

From the perspective of a big, fat bloke:

Nothing too much wrong with the announcement, although maybe "larger" mingh have been better that fat.

2x3 seating is a waste of space. I'd much rather stand than push between two strangers.

When chided for your size by slimmer colleagues/friends/acquaintances, a reply of "I'm only fat because every time I sleep with your spouse they give me a biscuit" tends to shut them up...

 

[Robertj21a]

The tipping point for me must be more than 17 minutes (East Croydon to Victoria fast). I do find myself standing near the doors rather then mid coach unless the coach is really filling up. There is not much to hold onto on the seat backs of the earlier 377s so standing away from the door area is tricky. Of course there are times when I am lucky to get on the train at all !.

I also find airline seats tricky as I have long legs for my height so will always head for a table seat although the table can make it difficult to get in or out. For standing being taller than most makes me more prone to toppling over as the train lurches. Have to say this is quite a serious problem for me on buses as most buses seem to have a stop go pedal and no gentle acceleration/braking alternative !.

We do not know much about the reported incident so will have to wait and see. In the meantime I wonder if tall people should be catered for better AND also fatter people because the average size for both has increased over the years. That is why 3+2 seating is hopeless - its outdated.

Perhaps shorter people - and thinner people - should also be catered for better.

 

[lookapigeon]

The seats on the SWT trains are smaller than what they replaced. The slam door trains had more comfortable seating - you would have trouble even fitting three average sized blokes on today's trains side-by-side.

 

[SouthStand]

Perhaps we should charge fat passengers more for the additional fuel use?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Nah - we could re-coup the extra costs incurred by larger people easily. More optional sales of food at the stations. To be fair to fat people there are apparently cases where their metabolism (NOT their appetite) means they gain weight far more easily than others from the same food. I used to have a high metabolic rate and I could eat my friends leftovers while still remaining skinny so I can believe some fat people cannot control their weight.

Reality is we are getting bigger and unless the government starts taxing the causes for example cheap suger and cheap "meat"(which is almost all fat and cereal) the railways will just have to cope - same as the NHS. Actually the increasing height of people is apparently due to better diet although some say its the growth hormones given to the animals we eat.

 

[PermitToTravel]

We could re-coup the extra costs incurred by larger people easily. More optional sales of food at the stations.

Ah, that explains Network Rail's recent station redesign philosophy!

 

[Peter Sarf]

Ah, that explains Network Rail's recent station redesign philosophy!

I have noticed the work at Euston building a building inside the building !. I assume its an extra floor of retail opportunities under the roof of the concourse. Really does spoil the open space feeling there used to be. I can remember when there was absolutely no food outlets outside the front of the concourse building between that and the bus stops. Now its a whole self supporting socialising area of its own 1.

 

[Searle]

Perhaps we should charge fat passengers more for the additional fuel use?

Please don't tell me you're serious

 

[ainsworth74]

Don't some airlines charge more for the same reason?

 

[Matt Taylor]

That's correct, and Southwest Airlines (similar livery) is one of those airlines.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Nah - we could re-coup the extra costs incurred by larger people easily. More optional sales of food at the stations. To be fair to fat people there are apparently cases where their metabolism (NOT their appetite) means they gain weight far more easily than others from the same food. I used to have a high metabolic rate and I could eat my friends leftovers while still remaining skinny so I can believe some fat people cannot control their weight.

I certainly find it very easy to put on weight and far harder to lose it. I'm normally very active but spent the first 2 months of this year redoing my bathroom, which (a) meant I had no shower or bath at home for a while, so couldn't just go for a run then a shower afterwards, and (b) took up almost all my spare time. So I put two stone on without really having changed my eating at all. (Yes I know that was the problem! )

OTOH, it's likely to take me months to shift it off again even running 3 times a week.

I did once read that there are basically two types of metabolism that survived evolution - the skinny, athletic type who is always able to fight and forage for food, and those who aren't as quick but store it very effectively - I suspect I'm the latter.

In the end if calories in < calories out it'll shift, but some definitely do seem to find it easier.

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Perhaps shorter people - and thinner people - should also be catered for better.

Presumably you mean by cramming in more seats that shorter/thinner people can fit in, as they would rather have a tighter packed seat than no seat?

That can be done - Chiltern's 165s have sections of 2+2 and sections of 3+2, as do fGW's 166s now one end of first class has been declassified, and LM's 350s have a variety of seat pitches in the different sections.

The other way of doing it would be to remove the packaged food and extras from First Class and make the fare difference more proportional to the extra space, i.e. around 1.6-1.8 times Standard at all Standard fare points. Then those needing more room can pay extra for it without being forced to pay for extra services they don't want. I often do Weekend First, but FORs and even First Off Peaks are not proportionately priced. And I don't do Advances.

Neil

 

[driver_m]

Perhaps we should charge fat passengers more for the additional fuel use?

A lot of us up front would have to work for free then in that case

Looks like you've sent the outrage bus (love this phrase to the poster who said it) on another journey with that quote too. Are you Michael O'Leary of Ryanair?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Perhaps we should charge fat passengers more for the additional fuel use?

If we're going to charge fat people for extra fuel, the industry would end bankrupting the old grannies on East Coast who have those enormous carpeted suitcases that they have no hope of carrying

 

[BestWestern]

I don't think you can quite compare that to the joke here. If the guard had instead said, for example, "would gay passengers please avoid sitting in the middle seat as the proximity may make passengers next to them uncomfortable" there would quite rightly be uproar. Replace 'gay' with 'fat' and that's what you have here. No doubt the guard meant no offence, but you can't just make people feel uncomfortable with impunity in a professional, public role. It was ill-judged, and he may have to face the consequences of that poor judgement.

No, just no! A remark suggesting that a very narrow seat is not the most appropriate place for a large person to sit on a crowded train (which, essentially, is factually accurate), is absolutely not in the same league as making a homophobic comment which would have had no basis whatsoever.

This illustrates perfectly the alarmist, hysterical nature of some in this world. I fully agree that the alleged announcement was ill-judged and not appropriate, however it was hardly the most offensive thing I've ever heard. Excepting those who have a genuine eating disorder (a very, very tiny minority), the increasing proportion of our society who have allowed themselves to become overweight, fat, clinically/morbidly obsese (choose preferred least offensive terminology) need to take ownership of their problems, rather than trying to turn greediness into some sort of awful illness of which they are an innocent victim. If the reality that one is very obviously overwight is unbearable, then one needs to get fit.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, just no! A remark suggesting that a very narrow seat is not the most appropriate place for a large person to sit on a crowded train (which, essentially, is factually accurate), is absolutely not in the same league as making a homophobic comment which would have had no basis whatsoever.

1. Sitting next to a gay person will not cause you any harm. Indeed, you most likely will not have the slightest clue that they are gay. Sitting next to a very fat person is likely to mean you do not have the full use of your seat.

2. Being gay is not a choice, being fat is based on a combination of your metabolism and how much food you eat/how much exercise you do, with a very small number of exceptions. Some find it easier than others, but for almost everyone if you eat fewer calories than you burn on a sustained basis you will lose weight.

Note I am not a sanctimonious skinny person, I am a few stone overweight, mainly because I eat too much (I am generally very active).

This illustrates perfectly the alarmist, hysterical nature of some in this world. I fully agree that the alleged announcement was ill-judged and not appropriate, however it was hardly the most offensive thing I've ever heard. Excepting those who have a genuine eating disorder (a very, very tiny minority), the increasing proportion of our society who have allowed themselves to become overweight, fat, clinically/morbidly obsese (choose preferred least offensive terminology) need to take ownership of their problems, rather than trying to turn greediness into some sort of awful illness of which they are an innocent victim. If the reality that one is very obviously overwight is unbearable, then one needs to get fit.

Agreed. If necessary help and support should be provided to achieve that, but I don't believe it should be accepted as a medical condition except in those few cases where it genuinely is. It absolutely should not be seen as normal. I don't see it as normal, I know I need to lose weight.

It's like there are some children who genuinely have ADHD or some other psychological condition requiring support, but there are many, many that are simply badly behaved children requiring a bit more discipline. You can usually tell which of those they are likely to be very soon after meeting the parents...

Neil

 

[rdeez]

No, just no! A remark suggesting that a very narrow seat is not the most appropriate place for a large person to sit on a crowded train (which, essentially, is factually accurate), is absolutely not in the same league as making a homophobic comment which would have had no basis whatsoever.

This illustrates perfectly the alarmist, hysterical nature of some in this world. I fully agree that the alleged announcement was ill-judged and not appropriate, however it was hardly the most offensive thing I've ever heard.

Point taken, and it was a bit of an extreme comparison, I concede. I was wrong to make it. I shouldn't post after a few pints...!

Regardless of that, though, I'm still of the opinion that the guard shouldn't have said it. While I wouldn't necessarily be offended (were I overweight), clearly some were, and they reserve the right to be. That's just the way it is.

 

[bnm]

And look how it's being reported in the local press. From the Andover Advertiser:

Rail passengers on a South West train were told only slim people could sit due to a shortage of space

Commuters shocked as fat people told 'not to sit down' on Hampshire train​

HAMPSHIRE rail passengers were left shocked after a station announcer said fat people “should not sit down” due to a lack of space.

Commuters on the busy train, that had stopped at Basingstoke on its way through to Andover, were told there was a shortage of space and that only slim people should sit.

The announcer reportedly said: “We are going to be like sardines on this train.

"Can I ask that only slim people sit on the three-seaters? If you are fat, then it is simply not going to work.”

One passenger on the Basingstoke to Salisbury train said they were shocked and added: “I would get fired if I said that at my work”.

South West Trains has apologised for the incident and have said that “all passengers are welcome” on its services.

A spokesperson for the South West Trains-Network Rail Alliance said: "Our guard was aware this particular service was very busy and, in a light-hearted way, pointed out that some middle seat spaces might not be comfortable for passengers with a similar build to herself.

"This was in no way intended as a slight on any customers and the majority of passengers on the train took the comments in the spirit in which they were intended.

"However, like ourselves, she is very sorry if any passengers were offended by her remarks."

Same confusion about station and on-train announcement. But then there's the picture used to illustrate the story. To say nothing of the impossibility of having a SWT service with 3+2 seating on its way to Salisbury. :roll:

 

[bb21]

I though I had seen the worst of the newspaper industry. I was obviously wrong. :roll:

 

[cambsy]

To lose weight, one doesn't need to necessarily do more exercise, just eat less and take in less calories, worked for me, though took a while, I think what the guard said was a little bit ill conceived. I'm afraid one is asking for trouble saying that sort of thing in todays society, i would have found that remark make me laugh, and I'm about a stone over weight, people need to get over themselves and get some humour. I get ribbed at work, have banter and a laugh at work, which I find makes life a lot better, think people take themselves too seriously and need lighten up, as they say laughter is the best medicine.