Virgin Manchester diversions in May

[TheJRB]

I noticed that on Sunday 3rd May, Virgin services to Liverpool and Penrith will be diverted via Manchester. The Liverpool services are an extension of one of the Manchester trains but the services via Preston have no passengers stops between London and Manchester (and show as pick up only at Piccadilly in the down direction but no restrictions on the up).

Virgin passenger passes at Manchester Oxford Road here: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/MCO/2015/05/03/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=passenger&order=wtt&toc=VT.

Good to see the electrification is being made good use of by diversions too!

 

[thealexweb]

A real shame VT doesn't carry on eastwards out of Manchester on a regular basis.

 

[Hophead]

A real shame VT doesn't carry on eastwards out of Manchester on a regular basis.

They'd need to allocate a Voyager though (unless you're advocating longer distance connections for Glossop & Hadfield).

Ok, you could simply have got your points of the compass confused .

 

[thealexweb]

They'd need to allocate a Voyager though (unless you're advocating longer distance connections for Glossop & Hadfield).

Ok, you could simply have got your points of the compass confused .

I got momentarily muddled. Of course I meant westwards.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

They'd need to allocate a Voyager though (unless you're advocating longer distance connections for Glossop & Hadfield).

Ok, you could simply have got your points of the compass confused .

Well, that's solved that particular geographical conundrum...

 

[Tony2215]

and where have the paths for these diversions suddenly come from? I thought the route through Manchester Piccadilly & Oxford Road was clogged up enough as it is.

 

[Condor7]

So why does this mean that all trains are not able to go beyond Penrith North Lakes to Carlisle?

 

[The Planner]

and where have the paths for these diversions suddenly come from? I thought the route through Manchester Piccadilly & Oxford Road was clogged up enough as it is.

Its a Sunday, freight will be minimal or non existent and you can still poke trains through 3 minutes apart. You can always tweak other trains on a STP diversion anyway if the other TOCs agree.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Looks like no VT/XC/LM at Stafford or Wolverhampton that day either.
Euston-Crewe-Manchester goes via Alsager.
No Birmingham-Scotlands.
XC reversing at Nuneaton.
ATW not operating east of Shrewsbury - Manchester-Cardiff runs via Warrington BQ, Chester and Wrexham.

 

[The Snap]

Where would the drivers have got their route knowledge from, given there are normally no booked services between Liverpool and Piccadilly?

I saw recently in a separate thread that drivers are kept up-to-date on practical diversionary routes, but given this line has only recently been electrified, and 390s couldn’t physically run on the route until about 6 months ago, how would Virgin drivers have sufficient route knowledge?

 

[The Planner]

Pretty sure there are some ECS moves to Longsight in the eastbound direction at night, they may put some STP ECS moves back up to Preston for route knowledge.

 

[The Snap]

Pretty sure there are some ECS moves to Longsight in the eastbound direction at night, they may put some STP ECS moves back up to Preston for route knowledge.

That could explain it. Still, that's only been possible for 6-12 months.

 

[Tony2215]

Macclesfield will get a direct service to Liverpool for the first time since the 70's.

 

[driver_m]

Where would the drivers have got their route knowledge from, given there are normally no booked services between Liverpool and Piccadilly?

I saw recently in a separate thread that drivers are kept up-to-date on practical diversionary routes, but given this line has only recently been electrified, and 390s couldn’t physically run on the route until about 6 months ago, how would Virgin drivers have sufficient route knowledge?

Liverpool drivers have always needed to sign the chat moss. 57's being used to aid that particular problem with hauling pendos across. The Cheshire line is also on the route card. There are no booked Manchester - Liverpool moves for ecs. One offs excepted.

 

[Class 170101]

Manchester to Golborne Jn has already been used for diversions in the last 6 months or so for passenger trains, so proven capacity must be available for these already.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Even before it was juiced, it was still used a couple of times a year by Virgin for diversions between Preston and Crewe on weekends. I think the real issues with pathing come on the other side of Manchester: I remember during the Wigan blockade in July 2013 they set down at Stockport southbound and northbound had to run via Styal since that was the only way they would fit (obviously for those works than ran via Chorley vice Eccles!).

 

[driver_m]

Looking at those timings, the driver changeover point has to be Piccadilly. Network Rail used to ban changes there so whats changed? Can't be Stockport as there's only a one minute stop there.

 

[Class 170101]

Some look to be at Stoke as there are unadvertised stops there.

 

[driver_m]

Only Manchester and Euston sign via macc so it could be extra changes. The Liverpool driver would have to get off at Stockport at the latest.

 

[The Planner]

One minute dwell for a Pendo? Bit naughty.....

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Looking at those timings, the driver changeover point has to be Piccadilly. Network Rail used to ban changes there so whats changed? Can't be Stockport as there's only a one minute stop there.

That was in the days of Class 57 haulage westwards, so changing at Stockport was necessary to avoid blocking the Piccadilly through platforms.
A 390 on its own power is only a short EMU stop really.

 

[driver_m]

That was in the days of Class 57 haulage westwards, so changing at Stockport was necessary to avoid blocking the Piccadilly through platforms.
A 390 on its own power is only a short EMU stop really.

We used to have a 57 light engine to longsight from edge hill and they wouldn't let the crew change happen there either. It had to be Oxford Road.

 

[Philip Elliott]

That was in the days of Class 57 haulage westwards, so changing at Stockport was necessary to avoid blocking the Piccadilly through platforms.
A 390 on its own power is only a short EMU stop really.

There was always a complete ban on all crew reliefs on Platform 13/14 due to the simple reason that if the relief driver doesn't turn up then the job is stopped.

 

[telstarbox]

Whereas at Oxford Road you can use platforms 1 and 3 to bypass the stopped loco if necessary?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Whereas at Oxford Road you can use platforms 1 and 3 to bypass the stopped loco if necessary?

 

[craigybagel]

There is at least one booked crew changeover at platform 14 every night. The 16:58 Carmarthen-Manchester on arrival forms the 22:12 Manchester-Chester. The relief driver is already on the inbound train, travelling pass from Crewe, but the relief guard arrives at Manchester on a different train.

 

[dmncf]

I noticed that on Sunday 3rd May, Virgin services to Liverpool and Penrith will be diverted via Manchester. The Liverpool services are an extension of one of the Manchester trains but the services via Preston have no passengers stops between London and Manchester (and show as pick up only at Piccadilly in the down direction but no restrictions on the up).

Virgin passenger passes at Manchester Oxford Road here: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/MCO/2015/05/03/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=passenger&order=wtt&toc=VT.

Good to see the electrification is being made good use of by diversions too!

Thanks very much for the tip off. I've booked a day trip to Liverpool on the 08:20 outward from London Euston and the 16:43 return from Liverpool Lime Street.

Will the 08:20 be the first electric train ever to travel London - Manchester - Liverpool?