Relative quality of single deckers

[6Gman]

This may prove controversial, but ......

I'd be interested in comments on the relative quality of the different single deckers currently on the market. I realise there's a basic distinction between the heavyweights and the lightweights, but how do they compare in terms of comfort, reliability, economy etc?

I don't get to travel a lot but would the following ranking be close?

MB Citaro
Volvo B7TL
Optare Tempo
Scania Omni
Optare Versa
Enviro 300
Dart

 

[Flying Snail]

This may prove controversial, but ......

I'd be interested in comments on the relative quality of the different single deckers currently on the market. I realise there's a basic distinction between the heavyweights and the lightweights, but how do they compare in terms of comfort, reliability, economy etc?

I don't get to travel a lot but would the following ranking be close?

MB Citaro
Volvo B7TL
Optare Tempo
Scania Omni
Optare Versa
Enviro 300
Dart

That is a mixed up list; some chassis, some integrals, some bodies, some current, some old.

 

[vicbury]

Broadly agree although a B7TL is the double decker, the B7RLE was the single decker which has now been replaced by the B8RLE.

The best single decker buses I've ever travelled on were the Man Lion's City which I don't believe were ever available in the UK.

My ranking:

Man Lion's City
Volvo B7RLE
Optare Versa
Scania Omni City
Mercedes Citaro
Wright Streetlite
Optare Solo
DAF/VDL SB120
Enviro 300
Enviro 200/Dart
Mercedes Vario

 

[Goldfish62]

This may prove controversial, but ......

I'd be interested in comments on the relative quality of the different single deckers currently on the market. I realise there's a basic distinction between the heavyweights and the lightweights, but how do they compare in terms of comfort, reliability, economy etc?

I don't get to travel a lot but would the following ranking be close?

MB Citaro
Volvo B7TL
Optare Tempo
Scania Omni
Optare Versa
Enviro 300
Dart

Yes, I'd probably agree with that IMO. Definitely Citaro best and Dart/E200 worst.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Doesn't Arriva have a MAN ecoCity? That was doing the rounds with previous operators as a demo with Lothian and McGills...

The build quality of the new E200's that McGill's have been getting is actually quite decent.

 

[fgwrich]

Yes, I'd probably agree with that IMO. Definitely Citaro best and Dart/E200 worst.

I would almost agree except I would put the Volvo at the top, Reading Specked E300 as second, Citaro 3rd, and Stagecoach spec E300 and all E200s at the bottom.

The E300 isn't that bad, and when you travel on the Reading specification vehicles really do cut it very closely to a standard specification Wrightbus. But the E200s are nasty. No other way to put it I'm afraid, cheap horrible rattley things, and Stagecoach's spec ones in my opinion should be by far at the bottom.

 

[causton]

I would definitely have Citaros at the top. Everything else we have in Hertfordshire as a single decker is too rattly, cold in winter and slow.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Doesn't Arriva have a MAN ecoCity? That was doing the rounds with previous operators as a demo with Lothian and McGills...

The build quality of the new E200's that McGill's have been getting is actually quite decent.

Arriva North East have a few - quite nice but not as good as a Citaro IMHO in terms of ride quality. ANE also have Temsa Avenues - different, rare, crap!

I too hate the Stagecoach e200s - terrible build quality. The true successor to the Plaxton Prestige DAF SB220!!!!

 

[Temple Meads]

Volvo B7RLE with the Wright Eclipse bodywork is easily the best single decker I've been on, just feels like a substantial, quality product!

ADL E200's on the other hand, seem to suffer from high pitched engines and poor quality interiors - although the E300 would probably be a more natural rival for the Eclipse, not that they seem all that great.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Volvo B7RLE with the Wright Eclipse bodywork is easily the best single decker I've been on, just feels like a substantial, quality product!

ADL E200's on the other hand, seem to suffer from high pitched engines and poor quality interiors - although the E300 would probably be a more natural rival for the Eclipse, not that they seem all that great.

And, of course, we're missing the Streetlite Max DF in this list which is a lot better than I thought it might.

 

[Robertj21a]

E200/300 really need to be split between the old model and the current one. There also seems to be no allowance for those on Scania chassis.

Where's the Solo SR ?

Is the Streetlite listed assumed to be the DF or WF version ?

MCV Evolution is also missing.

 

[pompeyfan]

I'm surprised about the comments regarding Stagecoach E300s. I regularly travel on 58 plate and 13 plate versions (both integrals) and they seem very very good. However firsts E200s of the same vintage live up to your description.

 

[MCR247]

Am I the only one that thinks citaros are overrated? My main gripe though is the awful interior layout, although I'm not sure if this has improved in the latest model.

E200s aren't that bad surely? NCTs seem pretty decent, however, I've never ridden on any one elses.

 

[baza585]

I would differentiate between full size and midibus saloons

Full Size (in order of preference)

Volvo B7 (any body)
Streetlite Max
Scania/Wt
Scania/E300
Polish Scania
ADL/E300
Citaro (because of it's seat layout and appalling fuel economy)
Tempo
Excel

Midibus

Streetlite
ADL E200
Versa
Solo SR
Solo
DAF Cadet/Merit


I'm not a big fan of Optare as you can see!

 

[GaryMcEwan]

We've also missed out on the Wright Pulsar and Pulsar 2 which I think are absolutely horrendous...

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I would differentiate between full size and midibus saloons

Full Size (in order of preference)

Volvo B7 (any body)
Streetlite Max
Scania/Wt
Scania/E300
Polish Scania
ADL/E300
Citaro (because of it's seat layout and appalling fuel economy)
Tempo
Excel

Midibus

Streetlite
ADL E200
Versa
Solo SR
Solo
DAF Cadet/Merit


I'm not a big fan of Optare as you can see!

I think the Solos are quite good, probably down to the specs that each bus company went for

We've also missed out on the Wright Pulsar and Pulsar 2 which I think are absolutely horrendous...

Worst ever for me was the stretch Optare Metroriders, especially if you were near the back

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

We've also missed out on the Wright Pulsar and Pulsar 2 which I think are absolutely horrendous...

The Pulsar almost inhabits the middle ground between lightweight and heavyweight. I've found them to be pretty decent IMO - even the Sapphire ones are quite civilised.

Baza585 - take it you're talking about B7RLEs not the thirsty B7Ls?

Last year, I had some time off work and apart from tidying the rockery, had chance to travel around the North East, North Wales, East Mids/Anglia, as well as my local trips around the West of England. Best bus I travelled on - Somerbus's Mercedes OC500LE with MCV bodywork.

 

[baza585]

The Pulsar almost inhabits the middle ground between lightweight and heavyweight. I've found them to be pretty decent IMO - even the Sapphire ones are quite civilised.

Baza585 - take it you're talking about B7RLEs not the thirsty B7Ls?

Last year, I had some time off work and apart from tidying the rockery, had chance to travel around the North East, North Wales, East Mids/Anglia, as well as my local trips around the West of England. Best bus I travelled on - Somerbus's Mercedes OC500LE with MCV bodywork.

Yes GW, I meant the B7RLE; have sampled both Wright and Plaxton bodied versions. Very refined and comfortable packages. No real experience of B7Ls, so can't comment.

Not sampled Somerbus's Merc.

Forgot the Pulsars; not a huge fan of them TBH, although have only been on a couple. Very buzzy engines on both the ones I sampled.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes GW, I meant the B7RLE; have sampled both Wright and Plaxton bodied versions. Very refined and comfortable packages. No real experience of B7Ls, so can't comment.

Not sampled Somerbus's Merc.

Forgot the Pulsars; not a huge fan of them TBH, although have only been on a couple. Very buzzy engines on both the ones I sampled.

Pulsars aren't as assured as B7RLE Eclipses, and agree with you on noise but prefer them to an e200! The other Wright products - Solar is ok but never experienced a Meridian.

The B7Ls go ok but sadly most I've experienced are First ones with painful threadbare seating. However, they're not popular on account of the compartment in the saloon area and the MPGs.

I understand the comments about the Citaros. They're well built but are a dual door urban bus and the internal layout reflects it.

Still, not as bad as the fire prone Temsa Avenues (aka Turkish Alights)!! Sadly, it'll require a trip to Teesside to witness these "intriguing" machines, fitted with floor mounted box heaters that look like something out of Bristol RELL - I kid you not!

 

[6Gman]

Well, I was right in thinking that starting this thread might provoke a response!

I did - of course - mean B7RLE not the 'decker!

And I did forget a few models, notably the Streetlite thingy.

I had the 'pleasure' of a ropey B6BLE the other day - definitely bottom end of the pile!

Interested by the comment re Citaro fuel (in)efficiency - how does it compare to the Volvo?

 

[Strathclyder]

Doesn't Arriva have a MAN ecoCity? That was doing the rounds with previous operators as a demo with Lothian and McGills...

I believe this is the vehicle you're referring to:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/27204054@N07/16339083750

Back on-topic, the best single decks I've traveled on in the past few years have been Glasgow Citybus' 12-plate Enviro 200s. Their interior is a cut above the standard E200 interior, as far as comfort goes.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

I've always been a fan of Stagecoach spec E200/300s. Never been on a Scania E300 so I've no idea what they are like.

With regards to the MAN E300's with the high back seats that Stagecoach have (Half of Glasgow's lot), they are massively uncomfortable and actually really cramped and could rattle the teeth out of your head depending on what age they are...

 

[radamfi]

If you are a passenger, and not a bus operator having to pay the bills, why would you complain about sitting on a heavyweight bus? You could argue that you could be paying a lower fare if the bus had lower fuel consumption, but that is irrelevant if you are judging passenger comfort alone. You could also claim that lightweight buses are better for the environment. But on the other hand, improved passenger comfort may encourage more people to switch from cars to buses.

You could say comparing a Citaro/Lion's City to a E200 is like comparing a Mercedes E-Class to a Suzuki Alto.

 

[Zamracene749]

Still, not as bad as the fire prone Temsa Avenues (aka Turkish Alights)!! Sadly, it'll require a trip to Teesside to witness these "intriguing" machines, fitted with floor mounted box heaters that look like something out of Bristol RELL - I kid you not!

I could quite like the Temsa Avenues, they have a nice 'old school' heavy bus sound under power-if only the seats had been padded with something softer than diamond ...
They still turn up on Whitby runs too , pity the punters!

Most impressed recently with one of Abbott's of Leeming's Solo SR- fast, rattle free, quite comfy and above all smooth- unlike the '09 and '61 reg Pulsars I normally endure from Durham that rattle crash and bang something like supermarket trolleys being pushed down a cobbled street- full of empty tins- bring back the Bristol LH, all is forgiven......