Crowden and Woodhead stations

[Zerachiel76]

As I live not far from Crowden I've visited the site of the former station and saddened it's been razed completely. I struggled to find any sign of it at all apart from some overgrown bricks which could have been the edge of the platform.

I've also struggled to find many pics of it in use. I've found one in this book http://www.amazon.co.uk/Woodhead-Ma...d_sim_b_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=1G0X42664BZ6QHTJNMVH which a friend lent me. Does anyone have any pics of it before it was razed?

Finally and this is a funny question, but how is Crowden pronounced?

I pronounce it crow (like the bird) - den but I realise it could be crow (to rhyme with how) - den. What is the correct pronunciation?

 

[eastwestdivide]

It's pronounced like the bird in the Ewan MacColl song "Manchester Rambler":

...I've been over Snowdon, I've slept upon Crowden
I've camped by the Wainstones as well
I've sunbathed on Kinder*, been burnt to a cinder
And many more things I can tell...

Unlike Howden which seems to be pronounced as in "how"


*he must have been lucky then.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Just a question about Crowden, when electric services commenced in the early 50s, the class 506 emus only operated as far as Hadfield on the local services from Manchester and as far as Iam aware the 76/77s working Manchester London Rd. - Sheffield Victoria services ran non-stop between the two. So was Crowden only served pre-electrification by steam, and as it didn't close until February 1957 what service would have called there after electrification?

 

[Zerachiel76]

It's pronounced like the bird in the Ewan MacColl song "Manchester Rambler":


Unlike Howden which seems to be pronounced as in "how"


*he must have been lucky then.

Thanks and lol

Just a question about Crowden, when electric services commenced in the early 50s, the class 506 emus only operated as far as Hadfield on the local services from Manchester and as far as Iam aware the 76/77s working Manchester London Rd. - Sheffield Victoria services ran non-stop between the two. So was Crowden only served pre-electrification by steam, and as it didn't close until February 1957 what service would have called there after electrification?

Interestingly, the only picture I've seen of trains running through Crowden was with a steam engine.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Thanks and lol



Interestingly, the only picture I've seen of trains running through Crowden was with a steam engine.

Yes, me too, and I think I own the same book that you borrowed,so probably the same picture

 

[Bevan Price]

Just a question about Crowden, when electric services commenced in the early 50s, the class 506 emus only operated as far as Hadfield on the local services from Manchester and as far as Iam aware the 76/77s working Manchester London Rd. - Sheffield Victoria services ran non-stop between the two. So was Crowden only served pre-electrification by steam, and as it didn't close until February 1957 what service would have called there after electrification?

From Summer 1955 timetable - trains that called at Crowden:
12:25 Manchester L.Rd - Sheffield Vic. (Crowden 13:07 WFO)
18:40 Manc. L.Rd. - Sheff. Vic (Request stop at Crowden)
22:35 SO Manc. L.Rd. - Sheff. Vic. (Crowden 23:12)

09:05 Sheff. Vic. - Manc. L.Rd. (Crowden 09:39)

09:40 SuO Manc. L.Rd. - Sheff Vic. (Crowden 10:15)
19:30 SuO Sheff. Vic. - Manc. L.Rd. (Crowden 20:11)

So, not a lot of use to many people, except maybe for Machester ramblers walking around the Crowden area on Sundays.

 

[Ash Bridge]

From Summer 1955 timetable - trains that called at Crowden:
12:25 Manchester L.Rd - Sheffield Vic. (Crowden 13:07 WFO)
18:40 Manc. L.Rd. - Sheff. Vic (Request stop at Crowden)
22:35 SO Manc. L.Rd. - Sheff. Vic. (Crowden 23:12)

09:05 Sheff. Vic. - Manc. L.Rd. (Crowden 09:39)

09:40 SuO Manc. L.Rd. - Sheff Vic. (Crowden 10:15)
19:30 SuO Sheff. Vic. - Manc. L.Rd. (Crowden 20:11)

So, not a lot of use to many people, except maybe for Machester ramblers walking around the Crowden area on Sundays.

Very interesting, so electric loco hauled did actually call, I wonder who would use that 22:35 SO (arr. 23:12) from Manchester, signalman changing shifts perhaps? Many thanks for that Bevan

 

[Zerachiel76]

From Summer 1955 timetable - trains that called at Crowden:
12:25 Manchester L.Rd - Sheffield Vic. (Crowden 13:07 WFO)
18:40 Manc. L.Rd. - Sheff. Vic (Request stop at Crowden)
22:35 SO Manc. L.Rd. - Sheff. Vic. (Crowden 23:12)

09:05 Sheff. Vic. - Manc. L.Rd. (Crowden 09:39)

09:40 SuO Manc. L.Rd. - Sheff Vic. (Crowden 10:15)
19:30 SuO Sheff. Vic. - Manc. L.Rd. (Crowden 20:11)

So, not a lot of use to many people, except maybe for Machester ramblers walking around the Crowden area on Sundays.

Thanks for this info, if you don't mind me asking, where did you get the info from? I struggle to find anything out about Crowden

 

[RichmondCommu]

Apologies for going off topic here but Woodhead station (the next station in the direction of Sheffield) was built when the line was electrified and in the end saw very little use.

Its also worth pointing out that there is a very useful and well equipped YHA owned Youth Hostel at Crowden which I have used on several occasions. It's also very easy to identify the location of Torside level crossing which was nearby and which had a signal box and loops. However the loops had gone some time before the route closed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's pronounced like the bird in the Ewan MacColl song "Manchester Rambler":


Unlike Howden which seems to be pronounced as in "how"


*he must have been lucky then.

In winter I concur however I have enjoyed many hot summer days up on Kinder! However on a nasty winters day it can be down right dangerous!

 

[Springs Branch]

Apologies for going off topic here but Woodhead station (the next station in the direction of Sheffield) was built when the line was electrified and in the end saw very little use.

I like to spend the odd hour browsing old railway timetables, and one thing that leaps out is how eccentric and apparently illogical were the services for many small stations & minor branch lines, even before Beeching.

You have to ask yourself "what were they thinking?" (Wait, here's an idea - let's provide a really useless service , then we can close the station / line).

In the June 1960 timetable, by which time Crowden had closed, Woodhead station had trains as follows (which mimics the schedules at Crowden, so presumably railway management thought there was some merit in that pattern of service):-

Eastbound:
The 12.40 Manchester London Rd to Leicester Central, stopped at 13.11, but again on Wednesdays, Thursdays & Fridays Only.
The 22.35 Manchester London Rd to Sheffield Vic called at 23.13 on Saturdays Only.

Westbound:
The 09.08 Sheffield Vic to Manchester L. Rd called at 09.38 (Monday to Saturday)
The 22.35 Sheffield Vic to Manchester L. Rd called at 23.05 on Saturdays Only, on request and only to set down.

At the other end of the tunnel, the station at Dunford Bridge (which has more settlement) also had a sparse service, though often with different trains stopping there than at Woodhead.

 

[Zerachiel76]

I like to spend the odd hour browsing old railway timetables, and one thing that leaps out is how eccentric and apparently illogical were the services for many small stations & minor branch lines, even before Beeching.

You have to ask yourself "what were they thinking?" (Wait, here's an idea - let's provide a really useless service , then we can close the station / line).

In the June 1960 timetable, by which time Crowden had closed, Woodhead station had trains as follows (which mimics the schedules at Crowden, so presumably railway management thought there was some merit in that pattern of service):-

Eastbound:
The 12.40 Manchester London Rd to Leicester Central, stopped at 13.11, but again on Wednesdays, Thursdays & Fridays Only.
The 22.35 Manchester London Rd to Sheffield Vic called at 23.13 on Saturdays Only.

Westbound:
The 09.08 Sheffield Vic to Manchester L. Rd called at 09.38 (Monday to Saturday)
The 22.35 Sheffield Vic to Manchester L. Rd called at 23.05 on Saturdays Only, on request and only to set down.

At the other end of the tunnel, the station at Dunford Bridge (which has more settlement) also had a sparse service, though often with different trains stopping there than at Woodhead.

No problems with me going off topic since I have a related query about Woodhead. As you can see in this site http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/w/woodhead/ there were originally houses on the top of the cliff above the station and one of these were still there in 1964. However these have completely disappeared as I've walked around where they were located and there is no trace of them at all.

Does anyone know anything about these houses such as when they were built, who lived in them and when they were demolished as I can't find anything out about them at all.

 

[Ash Bridge]

No problems with me going off topic since I have a related query about Woodhead. As you can see in this site http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/w/woodhead/ there were originally houses on the top of the cliff above the station and one of these were still there in 1964. However these have completely disappeared as I've walked around where they were located and there is no trace of them at all.

Does anyone know anything about these houses such as when they were built, who lived in them and when they were demolished as I can't find anything out about them at all.

Just a guess really, but could they have been railwaymens cottages? e.g. Station Master, signalman, etc. even the smallest and remotest of stations had a fair number of staff originally.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There were railway cottages envisaged in its plans for the Sheffield, Ashton-under-Lyne and Manchester Railway which became part of the Manchester, Sheffield and Lincolnshire Railway in 1847, that were to be situated high above the railway station at Crowden.

A local millowner, Brown and Company, donated the sum of £50 towards the cost of Crowden station leaving the railway company to pay the remaining cost of £400. Plans were drawn up for the station but the MSLR decided that their cost portion of £400 was too high and gave up the idea. In 1860, the MSLR subsequently employed George Benson of Glossop to construct the station at the original cost of £450, but the £50 given by Brown and Company appears never to have been repaid to them by the MSL. The station was finally opened on 1st July 1861.

 

[Taunton]

Just a question about Crowden, when electric services commenced in the early 50s, the class 506 emus only operated as far as Hadfield on the local services from Manchester and as far as Iam aware the 76/77s working Manchester London Rd. - Sheffield Victoria services ran non-stop between the two. So was Crowden only served pre-electrification by steam, and as it didn't close until February 1957 what service would have called there after electrification?

As others describe, there were a number of wayside stations along the line which had a very sparse service. The Manchester to Sheffield roughly hourly "expresses" were the only service east of Hadfield after electrification in 1954, and random ones seem to be picked off for the stops. They weren't non-stop, I think pretty much all of them stopped at Guide Bridge and Penistone, and quite a few at other points on the 506's route like Dinting or Hadfield as well.

Once the new Woodhead tunnel opened in 1954, steam was banned on the route. This was a particular nuisance to the large number of ex-GCR/LNER steam locomotives east of the Pennines which were still overhauled at the old GCR Gorton works, Manchester, which had to be assembled at Sheffield and then dragged dead by an electric loco across the hills.

 

[Zerachiel76]

Just a guess really, but could they have been railwaymens cottages? e.g. Station Master, signalman, etc. even the smallest and remotest of stations had a fair number of staff originally.

There were railway cottages envisaged in its plans for the Sheffield, Ashton-under-Lyne and Manchester Railway which became part of the Manchester, Sheffield and Lincolnshire Railway in 1847, that were to be situated high above the railway station at Crowden.

A local millowner, Brown and Company, donated the sum of £50 towards the cost of Crowden station leaving the railway company to pay the remaining cost of £400. Plans were drawn up for the station but the MSLR decided that their cost portion of £400 was too high and gave up the idea. In 1860, the MSLR subsequently employed George Benson of Glossop to construct the station at the original cost of £450, but the £50 given by Brown and Company appears never to have been repaid to them by the MSL. The station was finally opened on 1st July 1861.

As others describe, there were a number of wayside stations along the line which had a very sparse service. The Manchester to Sheffield roughly hourly "expresses" were the only service east of Hadfield after electrification in 1954, and random ones seem to be picked off for the stops. They weren't non-stop, I think pretty much all of them stopped at Guide Bridge and Penistone, and quite a few at other points on the 506's route like Dinting or Hadfield as well.

Once the new Woodhead tunnel opened in 1954, steam was banned on the route. This was a particular nuisance to the large number of ex-GCR/LNER steam locomotives east of the Pennines which were still overhauled at the old GCR Gorton works, Manchester, which had to be assembled at Sheffield and then dragged dead by an electric loco across the hills.

Thanks for all the info guys. No info on when they were demolished? I can't understand why they were demolished since the station remained. After all the station cottages at Crowden weren't demolished even when the station was demolished.

 

[neilmc]

Crowden's a weird place. An outpost of Derbyshire which is effectively only accessible via Greater Manchester or South Yorkshire, and the only place I know where the ENCTS isn't valid since its only service is National Express 350 - unless anyone knows of any "easement" to allow pensioners to travel there for free.

Three coaches a day in either direction during the daytime, probably marginally better than the long-lost rail service.

 

[Bevan Price]

Thanks for this info, if you don't mind me asking, where did you get the info from? I struggle to find anything out about Crowden

BR Eastern Region timetable, 1955 (Cost 1 shilling - 5p. )
Service was never lavish, even when the line was nearly new, but a bit better than in 1955.

GCR (reprinted) timetable 1903:
Trains calling at Crowden (weekdays):

Manchester L.Rd. dep.:- 05:35 & 18:25 to Penistone; 08:28, 11:15, 12:45 & 15:45 to Sheffield. All except one of these called at Woodhead, and also served all other stations including Hazlehead Bridge.

Most taking about 50 mins. to reach Crowden.

Sheffield Vic. dep. : 05:55, 09:30, 14:35 & 18:20 to Manchester.

On Sundays, 3 trains each way called at Crowden.
----------------------------------------------------------------

And from Bradshaw reprint 1938, trains calling at Crowden:-

Weekday service had declined to
Manchester L. Rd. dep 05:25 & 15:52
Sheffield Vic. dep.07:10 (SX). Started from Penistone at 07:51 on saturdays.

Woodhead got the same services, plus an additional mid-afternoon pick-up only stop (on a Cleethorpes - Manchester service)

Sunday service remained 3 trains each way (But Woodhead had no sunday services)