Northern Rail day ranger cost £6?

[Class 92]

I asked my Dad to buy me the Northern Rail day ranger promotion ticket from Crewe ticket office today because of having to buy 3 days in advanced but when he got home he said it cost £6 and not £10? The ticket also says 'Northern Family & Friends' when I just filled in 1 adult, 0 child tickets in the form. I have attached a image of the ticket. Any help would be great.

 

[185143]

That's a Staff Family and friends ticket.

If you know someone who works for northern and you can get a voucher out of them (hint hint any northern staff on here), then you can get a day travel on Northern after 9:30. The ticket printed is the one you have.

It won't be questioned and is a relatively rare ticket to have!

 

[Adam0984]

Possibly with it been a Virgin ticket office they got a little confusled. Good news you'll have no problems just enjoy your bargain day out.

 

[First class]

I think you'll find that using a staff "friends and family" ticket constitutes fraud, especially now you have been made aware that the ticket has been incorrectly issued. You don't know whether you will encounter a suspicious RPI or traincrew.

Whilst obviously you have been missold a ticket, it doesn't mean you can use it!

 

[185143]

I think you'll find that using a staff "friends and family" ticket constitutes fraud, especially now you have been made aware that the ticket has been incorrectly issued. You don't know whether you will encounter a suspicious RPI or traincrew.

Whilst obviously you have been missold a ticket, it doesn't mean you can use it!

Whilst I agree with you, it is reasonable to assume that if you ask for a specific ticket, that is the one you will receive!

 

[Merseysider]

Whilst I agree with you, it is reasonable to assume that if you ask for a specific ticket, that is the one you will receive!

Indeed, although Virgin staff issuing a Northern only product - every possibility they'd never issued one before. I would suggest the OP takes the incorrect ticket to a Northern station and have it exchanged for the correct one.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I think you'll find that using a staff "friends and family" ticket constitutes fraud, especially now you have been made aware that the ticket has been incorrectly issued. You don't know whether you will encounter a suspicious RPI or traincrew.

Whilst obviously you have been missold a ticket, it doesn't mean you can use it!

I find that a good description of fraud is "deliberately deceptive to gain financial advantage".

I do not see how the op currently fits that description.

In any case, this just won't get noticed, Northern Guards will accept it as if that was the ticket that was supposed to be issued in the first place. The Northern Friends and Family ticket would never be used by staff (we have our staff passes) and can be used by anyone fortunate enough to get their hands on a voucher (or in this case, fortunate enough to find a clerk who doesn't really know what they are doing), no ID is required.

Indeed, although Virgin staff issuing a Northern only product - every possibility they'd never issued one before. I would suggest the OP takes the incorrect ticket to a Northern station and have it exchanged for the correct one.

Naff all a Northern station can do.

Can't issue a Promotional ticket without the vouchers that the op no longer has, can't give a refund because Virgin issued it and can't do an excess on a rover ticket. They are just going to tell the op to go back to the station it was bought at.

 

[185]

Some problems with Crewe booking office staff training. Spotted a striking error with a passenger's tickets some months ago with the advance date function being left on for a subsequent, second passenger buying a ticket for same day travel - a date 14 days ahead was on the tickets in error, leaving their (albeit, pretty good) customer relations people at head office to pick up the pieces after the mistake.

 

[Starmill]

I think you'll find that using a staff "friends and family" ticket constitutes fraud, especially now you have been made aware that the ticket has been incorrectly issued. You don't know whether you will encounter a suspicious RPI or traincrew.

Whilst obviously you have been missold a ticket, it doesn't mean you can use it!

Because in the Railway industry, passengers may be mercilessly and legally prosecuted because of the mistakes of a member of staff. Thank you for pointing that out so vociferously.

The suggestion that this passenger has committed fraud are foolish and unhelpful. A well-meaning passenger has formed a contract for travel with Virgin acting on Northern's behalf. If Northern or one of their staff don't like that they'd need to take it up with VT. Nowt to do with the passenger.

 

[Merseysider]

I find that a good description of fraud is "deliberately deceptive to gain financial advantage".

I do not see how the op currently fits that description.

In any case, this just won't get noticed, Northern Guards will accept it as if that was the ticket that was supposed to be issued in the first place. The Northern Friends and Family ticket would never be used by staff (we have our staff passes) and can be used by anyone fortunate enough to get their hands on a voucher (or in this case, fortunate enough to find a clerk who doesn't really know what they are doing), no ID is required.



Naff all a Northern station can do.

Can't issue a Promotional ticket without the vouchers that the op no longer has, can't give a refund because Virgin issued it and can't do an excess on a rover ticket. They are just going to tell the op to go back to the station it was bought at.

In that case I don't see what else the OP can do besides use it. If he does run into trouble I'm pretty sure the blame will end up with Virgin.

 

[Class 92]

I was told that the person selling the ticket had already sold quite a few of the promotions so a few other people may have been issued the incorrect ticket or maybe it was a one off mistake.

 

[danbushell]

A cheap day out for you.
northern has the vouchers attached to the booking print out so only repercussion I can see is a staff training issue.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I think you'll find that using a staff "friends and family" ticket constitutes fraud

Don't be ridiculous, it is nothing of the sort. This ticket is issued to people who have a relevant voucher, no further questions asked. The guard won't ask for anything else, and the OP has done nothing wrong.

IIRC from when I used the ticket, it is not refundable and cannot be excessed. The OP should just enjoy their day out. As far as they're concerned they got the ticket they asked for.

 

[First class]

Because in the Railway industry, passengers may be mercilessly and legally prosecuted because of the mistakes of a member of staff. Thank you for pointing that out so vociferously.

The suggestion that this passenger has committed fraud are foolish and unhelpful. A well-meaning passenger has formed a contract for travel with Virgin acting on Northern's behalf. If Northern or one of their staff don't like that they'd need to take it up with VT. Nowt to do with the passenger.

The law would judge that as soon as a mistake was identified by, or brought to the attention of the OP, and he became aware that he had not paid the correct fare or obtained a valid ticket, that the correct course of action is to return it to the point of sale to rectify the error.

It is not permissible to simply use an incorrect ticket.

Nobody is talking about prosecutions, unless the OP attempts to obtain an advantage from a genuine error.

 

[Merseysider]

Nobody is talking about prosecutions, unless the OP attempts to obtain an advantage from a genuine error.

Well I'd say as the discounted ticket can't be used until 0930, whereas the 'proper' ticket is valid after 0845, the term "advantage" is clearly questionable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The law would judge that as soon as a mistake was identified by, or brought to the attention of the OP, and he became aware that he had not paid the correct fare or obtained a valid ticket, that the correct course of action is to return it to the point of sale to rectify the error.

Except for that I'm pretty much certain it *won't* be rectified, other than a refund of the £6, which is not rectifying it.

That said, I suppose the old adage of "check your change before leaving, mistakes will not be rectified afterwards" may well apply.

Neil

 

[Tetchytyke]

The law would judge that as soon as a mistake was identified by, or brought to the attention of the OP, and he became aware that he had not paid the correct fare or obtained a valid ticket, that the correct course of action is to return it to the point of sale to rectify the error.

It is not permissible to simply use an incorrect ticket.

Except that it is not an invalid ticket, and he has paid the correct fare for the ticket that was issued.

 

[muz379]

*Assuming the OP only uses it on services on which it is valid *

Guards or RPI's will not take any issue as the ticket is valid as far as they are concerned . There is no way they could know that the OP has not exchanged the correct voucher required to get a Northern Family and friends ticket at the booking office .They can be as suspicious as they want of that fact but they have no way of verifying their hunch so there is little they can do

 

[IanD]

Well I'd say as the discounted ticket can't be used until 0930, whereas the 'proper' ticket is valid after 0845, the term "advantage" is clearly questionable.

As the date is a Saturday I would imagine both tickets would be valid all day.

 

[dave87016]

Both tickets have the same validity the Johnstones Press voucher ( £10 per adult) is valid from 08:45am weekdays and anytime weekends and bank holidays and the Northern Family and Friends voucher is valid after 09:30am weekdays and anytime weekends and bank holidays I can only assume the booking office have issued the Family and Friends voucher instead of the Johnstones press voucher ticket

The OP does not gain any advantage from the ticket both are issued as day rangers and only valid on Northern services the booking office has probably made a genuine mistake (s). I don't see what can be achieved by the OP going to the booking office and and trying to rectify the mistake as the voucher will probably by now been sent to the accounts office.

 

[185143]

*Assuming the OP only uses it on services on which it is valid *

Guards or RPI's will not take any issue as the ticket is valid as far as they are concerned . There is no way they could know that the OP has not exchanged the correct voucher required to get a Northern Family and friends ticket at the booking office .They can be as suspicious as they want of that fact but they have no way of verifying their hunch so there is little they can do

Unless they are on here, and see a northern Family and Friends ticket issued at Crewe presented to them...

 

[fowler9]

I think you'll find that using a staff "friends and family" ticket constitutes fraud, especially now you have been made aware that the ticket has been incorrectly issued. You don't know whether you will encounter a suspicious RPI or traincrew.

Whilst obviously you have been missold a ticket, it doesn't mean you can use it!

I would have thought that if you are miss sold a ticket and base your travel plans around it then it would be wrong for a TOC to penalise the person who was miss sold the wrong product and again down to the TOC to seek recompense for the miss sale from the peson who sold it rather than the customer being guilty of fraud and having to stump up the cash. I mean this more as a question than me stating it as some kind of legal fact.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would have thought that if you are miss sold a ticket and base your travel plans around it then it would be wrong for a TOC to penalise the person who was miss sold the wrong product and again down to the TOC to seek recompense for the miss sale from the peson who sold it rather than the customer being guilty of fraud and having to stump up the cash. I mean this more as a question than me stating it as some kind of legal fact.

If a passenger has been mis-issued a ticket you're supposed to withdraw it, issue a receipt endorsed with the required validity, and report it as an issuing irregularity, aren't you?

Neil

 

[Merseysider]

If a passenger has been mis-issued a ticket you're supposed to withdraw it, issue a receipt endorsed with the required validity, and report it as an issuing irregularity, aren't you?

Neil

And in this case that would presumably include taking payment of an additional £4?

I do feel this is mostly academic though as the OP really hasn't set out to defraud the railway and guards aren't going to detrain him on sight; there may be a comment and a smile but it probably won't be withdrawn.

 

[Class 92]

Thanks for the help, I didn't have any problems or strange looks with the ticket yesterday.

 

[Darandio]

Thanks for the help, I didn't have any problems or strange looks with the ticket yesterday.

Good news, but no doubt a bitter disappointment for certain contributors to this thread.