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Debate on the term 'coloured' (split from another thread)

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RichmondCommu

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I was on a Torquay train last summer when the RPI challenged a coloured bloke for not having a ticket. The abuse he took was absolutely fierce and was constantly being called a racist. He and his colleague were absolutely calm and talked very firmly but very fairly to the gentleman. The guy was at it and the RPI knew it. When he had finished with him and came over to us I told him he had handled that very well but you could tell he was drained by the whole episode and all he could say to me was ' I have to deal with people like him every day'. I do remember feeling a tad sorry for him!

Please do not use the word coloured to describe a black man as it is very offensive. Instead please describe the man as being black. I don't think for one minute that you intended to offend anyone but I hope that you will take this on board for future reference.
 
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najaB

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Please do not use the word coloured to describe a black man as it is very offensive.
Personally it's never bothered me, but I'm thick skinned. It is very old-fashioned though since it groups all non-whites together.

And now back to your thread in progress...
 

RichmondCommu

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Personally it's never bothered me, but I'm thick skinned. It is very old-fashioned though since it groups all non-whites together.

And now back to your thread in progress...

Its not so much that, its more the fact it was a phrase used in the US to discriminate against black people. The last thing we want to do on this forum is start offending other members because of the colour of their skin.
 

yorkie

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I was on a Torquay train last summer when the RPI challenged a coloured bloke for not having a ticket....
What do you mean by "coloured"? Do you mean "A different skin colour to mine"? That term makes no sense, as apart from complete albinos, surely everyone is "coloured"?! I would suggest not using that term, as it's nonsensical and some people consider it offensive. If someone said I had "coloured" hair for example, I'd think they were acting very odd.
 

Bodiddly

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I do apologize. If the term is so offensive to people on this forum, please take the post down. I was merely trying to raise the point of the RPI being called a racist when he was clearly not and had the full backing of his colleague to say so. I abhor racism but I abhor people playing the racism card. It is a disgusting thing to do to someone merely carrying out their job. If it wasn't for that point the gentleman's skin colour would have been totally irrelevant and I wouldn't have mentioned it at all.
 
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TheKnightWho

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Its not so much that, its more the fact it was a phrase used in the US to discriminate against black people. The last thing we want to do on this forum is start offending other members because of the colour of their skin.

This. The correct term is actually "People of Colour", which many of you may feel is no different, but the point is that it doesn't carry the same connotations. It's usually shortened to PoC for ease.

And I'm not sure saying "it's not offensive to me" is very helpful if you're white. The issue is whether it's offensive to non-white people, which it generally is.
 
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TheKnightWho

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It's an Americanism and it's just as good/bad as coloured to me as it lumps me in with Asians, Native Americans, Aborigines and any other non-whites. Just call me Black and be done with it - I promise I won't be offended. :)

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the word black, but it's just generally an accepted term for all non-white people. 'Non-white' is generally considered bad because people tend to not like being defined by what they aren't.

But yes, it has its own problems too, but no-one has yet come up with a better solution.
 

RJ

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Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the word black, but it's just generally an accepted term for all non-white people.

Generally accepted where? I grew up in London without hearing the term "coloured" used by anybody.

It's an archaic term, which nowadays is considered to be an offensive term. Use of the term under it's dated definition is likely to cause contention, even if there is no malice behind it.
 

TheKnightWho

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Generally accepted where? I grew up in London without hearing the term "coloured" used by anybody.

It's an archaic term, which nowadays is considered to be an offensive term. Use of the term under it's dated definition is likely to cause contention, even if there is no malice behind it.

People of colour is not the same as coloured. They've got really, really different connotations.

Obviously coloured is unacceptable as a term to describe anyone.
 

G136GREYHOUND

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Please do not use the word coloured to describe a black man as it is very offensive. Instead please describe the man as being black. I don't think for one minute that you intended to offend anyone but I hope that you will take this on board for future reference.

Please don't describe me as being white either, I find that very offensive as sometimes I'm lucky enough to be nice and tanned in the sun.

Yaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Meanwhile back to the happy abuse heaped upon me daily by my many mates on the railway, thankfully
 

Bodiddly

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I was on a Torquay train last summer when the RPI challenged a coloured bloke for not having a ticket. The abuse he took was absolutely fierce and was constantly being called a racist. He and his colleague were absolutely calm and talked very firmly but very fairly to the gentleman. The guy was at it and the RPI knew it. When he had finished with him and came over to us I told him he had handled that very well but you could tell he was drained by the whole episode and all he could say to me was ' I have to deal with people like him every day'. I do remember feeling a tad sorry for him!

Mods' note: split from Are you happy in your job as an RPI? at Bodiddly's request
 
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MCR247

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And specific words really don't bother me as much as the context they're used in.

This. Half of the time when I (try to) explain this to people they look at me like I have two heads!
 

Antman

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This. The correct term is actually "People of Colour", which many of you may feel is no different, but the point is that it doesn't carry the same connotations. It's usually shortened to PoC for ease.

And I'm not sure saying "it's not offensive to me" is very helpful if you're white. The issue is whether it's offensive to non-white people, which it generally is.

I've never heard the phrase "people of colour" before.

I don't want to side track this debate in another direction but I used the term 'coloured' to a police officer (I was describing a suspect) and he didn't bat an eyelid, and yes the police officer was a "person of colour":D

I suspect he was more interested in catching the suspect than the finer points of political correctness?
 

najaB

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Antman said:
I've never heard the phrase "people of colour" before.
It's an Americanism and it's just as good/bad as coloured to me as it lumps me in with Asians, Native Americans, Aborigines and any other non-whites. Just call me Black and be done with it - I promise I won't be offended. :)

Edit: This reminded me of this stand-up routine.
 

RichmondCommu

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I've never heard the phrase "people of colour" before.

I don't want to side track this debate in another direction but I used the term 'coloured' to a police officer (I was describing a suspect) and he didn't bat an eyelid, and yes the police officer was a "person of colour":D

I suspect he was more interested in catching the suspect than the finer points of political correctness?

It's got nothing to do with being politically correct and everything to do with a racial slur, even if it wasn't intended.
 

RichmondCommu

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This. The correct term is actually "People of Colour", which many of you may feel is no different, but the point is that it doesn't carry the same connotations. It's usually shortened to PoC for ease.

And I'm not sure saying "it's not offensive to me" is very helpful if you're white. The issue is whether it's offensive to non-white people, which it generally is.

I never said that it wasn't offensive to me so why are you trying to put words into my mouth? My wife is of Indian subcontinent descent and I'm all too painfully aware of the issues regarding racial tension / hatred.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I've never heard the phrase "people of colour" before.

I don't want to side track this debate in another direction but I used the term 'coloured' to a police officer (I was describing a suspect) and he didn't bat an eyelid, and yes the police officer was a "person of colour":D

I suspect he was more interested in catching the suspect than the finer points of political correctness?

It's got nothing to do with being politically correct and everything to do with a racial slur, even if it wasn't intended.
 
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swj99

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My reaction to all of this is simple. Who cares ?
The comedian in the youtube vid mentioned a ex footballer coming out as gay. But while it might be useful comedy material, apart from that, it's of absolutely no relevance, same as if someone came out and said they weren't gay. So what ? His private life is of no interest to me. Why does anyone even think it's an issue. Get on with your life and stop worrying about what other people think, because you can't control their opinion anyway.

Who remembers the Constable Savage sketch on 'Not The Nine O Clock News' ?
At the end of it, he said he hadn't noticed the suspect was black. And that's the point. All the time people keep making a distinction, and saying, "It's because I'm / he's / they're black" or whatever, they are perpetuating the whole racism thing. Wouldn't it be so much better if it really wasn't an issue ? For example, do you remember when you were a kid, and had friends who were a different race or colour to you ? Was it an issue ? Were you aware of any so called difference until 'society' pointed out that people are different, even though they're actually not.
As far as I'm concerned, the words aren't important. I don't care whether people say any of these words that are supposed to be so terrible, because the racism is in the making of distinctions, not the language used to betray the act.
 

Argosy

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We should treat people as people. End of.

Yes certain ethnic/cultural groups may have certain cultural/behavioural characteristics, which often are true but that it different from the colour of one's skin.

Usually these stereotypes have been well documented by comedians.
 

Flamingo

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It's got nothing to do with being politically correct and everything to do with a racial slur, even if it wasn't intended.

Ok, we get it. You're offended (vicariously or otherwise). If we promise to collect outside his house later with torches and pitchforks can you move on?
 

Busaholic

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I'm not intending to join in the debate about whether it's right to use the term 'coloured people', but would just like to say this:-

The National Society for the Advancement of Colored People was founded in the USA in 1909 and is very much still going, without ever having changed its name.

In the abhorrent South African apartheid system, people were classed as white, black or coloured, the latter applying mainly to people of Asian extraction. Basil d'Oliviera, the England cricketer whom the South Africans would not admit into their country to play cricket in 1970, was classified as coloured.

In this country, people are 'asked' to provide details of their colour/race on Census forms - in France, this is illegal, hence when following the Charlie Hebdo killings the French government was asked for details of the racial characteristics of their population they were able to state truly they had no idea other than a rough guess.
 

Argosy

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In the abhorrent South African apartheid system, people were classed as white, black or coloured, the latter applying mainly to people of Asian extraction.

Coloured in the South African system stemmed from Cape Coloureds, nothing to do with Asians.

The system became highly technical and had some political overtones in its application and by that I mean exceptions were made for 'political' purposes. Thus the majority of Asians (brought in for the sugar plantations) were classed as Coloureds but Japanese were classed as 'white' (no doubt because of the trade links). Chinese were not classed as 'white'.

The Coloureds distinction was not meant to be 'offensive' in the manner you suggest. It was originally introduced for the Cape Coloureds who were genetically a mix of former bushman and the white settlers who essentially arrived following Jan Van Riebeck and the Dutch inbound migration. Their skin colour was thus 'coloured' as opposed to black.

The history of South Africa is unbelivably complex and simplifying it as a 'the blacks were here first' argument is tosh. Much of the black population of South Africa owes its existance to inbound migrant labour from other parts of Southern Africa. There are some important indiginous tribes, the most famous being the Zulus. Historically the Coloureds were always given higher status than 'blacks', but at times it was hard to see where!

What is a shame and a tragedy is that for the Boer War we probably would never have had apartheid, which was a system based on separateness. It existed in an unofficial form for decades (as it did elsewhere in the western and colonial world) but the creation of the Union of South Africa started to formalise it, but what really did it was the Nationalists coming into power after WWII.

The Afrikaaners finally got control after losing out over the Boer War. Had the Boer War not started I would argue that the gradual removal of global 'superior ethnic policies' would have influenced South Africa away from what we now know as the Apartheid system.

Ironically it still exists in India (as the caste system) and one might argue in Israel (who were strong supporters of Apartheid South Africa probably on the grounds of we are in this together).

What did apartheid South Africa in was a combination of the end of the cold war and the realisation that a class system based on race is both impractical and morally unacceptable. The problem was how to change it. White South Africans weren't afraid of the 'blacks' but of communism. I know I was there in 1969.

I suspect the same challenges are facing some in China. They know communism doesn't really work but haven't a clue how to change it and also if you are in power you often don't want to give it up!

And yes I've lived in both countries and generally found people of all races and cultures very welcoming and friendly.
 
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