Birmingham New Street Construction

[Lincoln]

Out of interest, in terms of Passenger Information Systems, how are platform changes managed? Is there a direct link between the route set by the signaller and the PIS, or are changes entered manually?

Platforms can be changed manually in advance, or depending upon the progress of the train, once it passes a certain Train Describer berth on its progress into a station, then the CIS will pick up on it automatically. In the latter case it would probably only be moments before the train appears at the station throat.

In places which doesn't have modern signalling (such as Sleaford), or if the system doesn't automatically pick up on the trains progress (such as degraded working where drivers are talked past signals), then the CIS will happily continue showing the wrong platform without manual intervention.

 

[Strat-tastic]

You can't polish a turd. I have to go to that dump tomorrow.

I'm sorry you feel that way. It's a shame you have to lower yourself by going there. Hopefully no one will recognise you and hold it against you

As for me, those platforms hold some very dear memories of those years spent spotting and bashing round B'ham area.

Beauty's in the eye of the beholder

 

[wellwhatitis]

I'm sorry you feel that way. It's a shame you have to lower yourself by going there. Hopefully no one will recognise you and hold it against you

As for me, those platforms hold some very dear memories of those years spent spotting and bashing round B'ham area.

Beauty's in the eye of the beholder

Everybody south of Rugby has an incredible chip on their shoulder regarding having to work into New Street. Yet you should see the fuss that gets created if you try to take any work off them.

 

[DarloRich]

I am anxious to see the work finished as i dislike New Street immensely - any change must be for the better!

 

[johnnychips]

This work, and the work in the streets around it, does seem to be taking a ridiculous amount of time. I was there last week and nothing seems to have been done (noticeably) since a year ago. Are they removing asbestos or something behind all the plywood?

 

[rdeez]

This work, and the work in the streets around it, does seem to be taking a ridiculous amount of time. I was there last week and nothing seems to have been done (noticeably) since a year ago. Are they removing asbestos or something behind all the plywood?

I think it's progressed at a fair pace considering that it is all being done while the station is fully operational. There have had to be considerations taken into account that wouldn't be there if the station could have been closed temporarily. It's also worth remembering that they weren't just building into nothing - there were buildings above the station that had to be removed / renovated into part of the new structure.

 

[Geezertronic]

I am sure if New Street was closed for the duration of the refurb, it could have all been done by now. But all of the concrete removal on top of a live station must have been very difficult to do so it's no wonder it is taking so long.

Stuff like this is not visible until it is opened so while it might look as if not much has been done, I assume a heck of a lot has been done behind the barriers

 

[Mugby]

The most useful part of the scheme so far has been the opening of the Moor Street Link.

 

[Mojo]

The most useful part of the scheme so far has been the opening of the Moor Street Link.

Useful for whom? It now takes longer to get from the platforms at New Street to Moor Street than it did before.

 

[RailAleFan]

This work, and the work in the streets around it, does seem to be taking a ridiculous amount of time.

The Midland Metro installation does appear to be incredibly slow work - would I be along the right lines in assuming that all the under-street utilities have to be either re-routed or put into some kind of conduit before track can be laid?

Once the track is down the water/electric/gas people can't just come along and dig up the road like they do...

 

[Old Hill Bank]

The Midland Metro installation does appear to be incredibly slow work - would I be along the right lines in assuming that all the under-street utilities have to be either re-routed or put into some kind of conduit before track can be laid?

Once the track is down the water/electric/gas people can't just come along and dig up the road like they do...

Yes all the utilities had to be moved before any track laying could start, hence the timescales and cost of the project.

 

[rdeez]

The Midland Metro installation does appear to be incredibly slow work - would I be along the right lines in assuming that all the under-street utilities have to be either re-routed or put into some kind of conduit before track can be laid?

Once the track is down the water/electric/gas people can't just come along and dig up the road like they do...

Also I believe there's some district heating installation going on

 

[po8crg]

The Midland Metro installation does appear to be incredibly slow work - would I be along the right lines in assuming that all the under-street utilities have to be either re-routed or put into some kind of conduit before track can be laid?

Once the track is down the water/electric/gas people can't just come along and dig up the road like they do...

Yes. The same is true for Manchester Metrolink, and we get used to seeing streets dug up for years up here. If there's a big project, they can do utilities work on one phase while they're laying track and setting up OHLE on another phase. The result is that everything is being worked on at once and the entire road system packs up.

 

[plastictaffy]

Everybody south of Rugby has an incredible chip on their shoulder regarding having to work into New Street. Yet you should see the fuss that gets created if you try to take any work off them.

New Street makes a nice change to Euston -I don't mind going up there for that reason. But it is a dump.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Useful for whom? It now takes longer to get from the platforms at New Street to Moor Street than it did before.

That will change again when the Smallbrook Queensway entrance reopens later this year. The Moor Street link has been a very welcome interim solution in the meantime and I suspect it will continue to be a popular thoroughfare even when the entire complex is open.

 

[damo44]

That will change again when the Smallbrook Queensway entrance reopens later this year. The Moor Street link has been a very welcome interim solution in the meantime and I suspect it will continue to be a popular thoroughfare even when the entire complex is open.

Could you tell me what the Moor St link is please?

Last time I walked from Moor St to New St (a couple of weeks ago) I used one of the only two routes I'm familiar with i.e. 1) through the Bullring centre or 2) through the less than appealing road tunnel that's been there since the shopping centre was rebuilt.

Have I missed a new pedestrian route?

 

[The Planner]

Doubt it, once you came out the road tunnel you went along the new walkway to the right of the station/railway lines.

 

[damo44]

Doubt it, once you came out the road tunnel you went along the new walkway to the right of the station/railway lines.

Correct, I walked under the Pallasades (where the Newt & Cucumber pub used to exist).

I've walked that way many times and it didn't strike me as anything special, just another gloomy pedestrian tunnel which I assumed was opened to compensate those walking between the stations until New St's main entrance re-opens.

 

[AlterEgo]

Correct, I walked under the Pallasades (where the Newt & Cucumber pub used to exist).

I've walked that way many times and it didn't strike me as anything special, just another gloomy pedestrian tunnel which I assumed was opened to compensate those walking between the stations until New St's main entrance re-opens.

It isn't really anything special, you're right. It has a "living wall" (a wall with ferns poking out of it!) and not much else to differentiate itself from a normal pavement. If they ever remove the necessity to cross the road then yes, it'll be a proper "link". Until then it's just a pavement leading to a road!

 

[HowardGWR]

Is there a long-term plan for making it easy to walk between Curzon St, Moor St and New St. If this complex was an airport there would be a travelator.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

There are tentative plans to extend the Metro on the east side. Wikipedia seems to suggest as far as Adderley Street (the Deritend side of the Custard Factory and in the shadow of the Digbeth viaduct which the Snow Hill lines sit on top of if you know the area)

http://www.centro.org.uk/transport/metro/other-metro-extensions/birmingham-eastside/

 

[swt_passenger]

Is there a long-term plan for making it easy to walk between Curzon St, Moor St and New St. If this complex was an airport there would be a travelator.

The entrance to 'Curzon St' is next door to Moor St. Naming the HS2 station Curzon St is pretty stupid of the DfT, IMHO - it just makes it seem much further away than it really is.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

The entrance to 'Curzon St' is next door to Moor St. Naming the HS2 station Curzon St is pretty stupid of the DfT, IMHO - it just makes it seem much further away than it really is.

But why does that matter to anybody? Moor Street is taken by a station which has about six and a half million journeys a year starting or terminating there.

Birmingham council are trying to made the city centre bigger, hence the EastSide expansion and the demolition of Mass House. They built a new city centre park which has an exit onto Curzon Street, the Millennium Point complex (science museum, cinema, university) is on Curzon Street and the name hugely historic association with the railway.

If you are driving to the station by car then you will almost certainly approach from Curzon Street or Fazeley Street (another potential, less likely, name for the HS2 terminal) so the name fits.

If you are approaching from the city centre via public transport (bus/tram) you get off at the HS2 stop, the name is irrelevant. So what's it "further" from? The perceived connection to New Street station? How many people who use HS2 will care a jot about that?

 

[Mutant Lemming]

I had the misfortune to pass through New Street on Saturday as well as venturing out of the station to the Digbeth area.
What an utter shambles. Diversion walkways send people round in circles or to dead ends, signage to direct people around the works seem non existent, information and staff presence were lacking.
The centre of Birmingham has felt like a work in progress and a continual building site for the past 40 years and it doesn't look like it will be changing anytime soon.

 

[HowardGWR]

The entrance to 'Curzon St' is next door to Moor St. Naming the HS2 station Curzon St is pretty stupid of the DfT, IMHO - it just makes it seem much further away than it really is.

Maybe so, but my point was just about getting over the gap. I know of no plans to make that easy for changing pax.

It's the same at Euston when you want to get to St P / KC or from Leeds HS2 to Leeds and Sheffield ditto and Toton to Derby and Toton to Nottingham and so on and so on.

Future pax will spend their travelling lives traipsing between stations.

At least there is a hope that north / south CCs will be able to stop at New St and Curzon St.

This is almost an HS2 point but my drift is clear I hope.

 

[damo44]

No that is Queens Road which separated the LNW station (left) and the Midland station (right), therefore the photo is looking east. The photographer is standing near to the junction with Hill Street though.

Queens Drive I think. It survived the 1960s rebuilding of New St although diverted a little to the south. It went up and over the roof of the Pallasades shopping centre passing Stephenson Tower and is/was used as a route for Taxis to get from Hill St to the station forecourt.

I don't know if it has/will survive the current rebuild or be swallowed up by the John Lewis development.
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But why does that matter to anybody? Moor Street is taken by a station which has about six and a half million journeys a year starting or terminating there.

Being familiar with railway history, I was delighted to see the Curzon St name brought back into play a few years ago when the proposed HS2 route was announced.

However when the anti HS2 campaign started highlighting the name Curzon St it had an unforeseen effect - to me at least. On local TV they stated (unchallenged) that the station would be a long way from the city centre and quoted exaggerated walking times to New St - conveniently ignoring that one entrance would be adjacent to Moor St station
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It isn't really anything special, you're right. It has a "living wall" (a wall with ferns poking out of it!) and not much else to differentiate itself from a normal pavement. If they ever remove the necessity to cross the road then yes, it'll be a proper "link". Until then it's just a pavement leading to a road!

Actually I've probably been a little unkind to the walkway. As pedestrian routes go it's not too bad - my comments about the gloomy passage where the Newt used to be are possibly clouded by memories of working in the adjacent office block and watching countless Euro/World/UEFA cup games over a 10 year period in that pub.

The point I was trying to make is the walkway has only become necessary as a link between Moor St and New St while the station's main entrance is blocked off during the rebuilding. It doesn't offer any advantage over the previous walking route and I have no idea whether it will be turned over to retail space again when the station redevelopment is complete. Does anyone know for sure?